Going back to gasser based on needs (need advice)

[ognend]

Hello!

We started out with a Duramax diesel, then traded that in for a 2016 Powerstroke. We towed about 13,000lbs of a horse trailer around the country. The Duramax was a 2006, excellent truck. The powerstroke had TSB issues (3 days of warranty work tearing into the engine), then the water pump failed at 15,000 miles, then a sensor at 30,000 miles, now it has a slow leak of antifreeze that the dealer cannot find but every time I go for an oil change, they have to top up the coolant. My battery + terminal on one of them corroded out as well, the mechanism to open/close back seat rusted out, I have to slam my back door behind the driver. It only has 50,000 miles. Because of the general feeling of lemon, I had to spend extra money on a bumper to bumper Ford extended warranty, which will go for another 25,000 miles.

However, six months ago we decided to sell the "big" horse trailer and these days the heaviest I pull/tow is 11,000 lbs (also horse trailer with small living quarters where we sleep, cook etc when traveling). We maybe pull once a month.

We live in a small town with one Ford dealer and I have to wait for the diesel mechanic for two weeks to look at my truck. Oil changes and maintenance are expensive. I could go to nearby larger city, I suppose but that's more aggravation and time spent.

So, I started wondering if I need a diesel at all. I could sell my truck and probably get enough cash (I own it outright) to walk into a dealership and buy outright one of those new 2020/2021 HEMI 6.4L with 8sp transmissions or the new Ford Godzilla 7.3 with the 10sp tranny (even though I lost confidence in Ford) and I feel for my usage I would be just fine. Cheaper maintenance, engines much less complicated, easier to find mechanics, no more hunting for gas stations that carry diesel on the open road, no more emissions equipment, no more turbo issues....

What I am after is advice - based on what I said above - am I right in thinking I don't need a diesel anymore? Even if you disregard all my problems with the powerstroke (probably just bad luck on my side), do I really need it?

Any input appreciated.

[kellem]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Kellum, If you are following this, since you have the 7.3 and the 10 speed tranny, what is your trailer weight and fuel economy? And how does the mileage compare to the older gasser?

Very first tow after break-in with minimal highway towing a 30ft trailer weighing 7750 loaded was 10.1 mpg.

My previous truck, 2004 Ram 2500 struggled mightily on steep grades but the older 5.7's were only rated at 345 HP.

Using my old Ram primarily for towing, it never saw double digit mpgs.

I did however wait a year before ordering the 7.3 to eliminate some 1st year wrinkles.

Good luck in your search.

[ognend]

Crespro wrote:
Hi. Not the same change, but I went from a 40DP with a Cummins 400ISL to the 7.3, ten speed and 4.30. Tow a 13.6K fifth wheel with about 21K on a 26K GCWR.

TFL Truck towed 16K up the IKE with this combination, so it can go anywhere you need to. You will have substantial downshifts on the hills, but the same transmission is rated for 43K in the F-350 diesel, so I think it will be fine.

I do not track mileage carefully, but guess I am at 14 empty and 7 towing.

The gasser is much better for me -- about 75% of miles are not towing. I am getting used to the long bed, but the SRW is much better for parking in town.

Thank you!

[Crespro]

Hi. Not the same change, but I went from a 40DP with a Cummins 400ISL to the 7.3, ten speed and 4.30. Tow a 13.6K fifth wheel with about 21K on a 26K GCWR.

TFL Truck towed 16K up the IKE with this combination, so it can go anywhere you need to. You will have substantial downshifts on the hills, but the same transmission is rated for 43K in the F-350 diesel, so I think it will be fine.

I do not track mileage carefully, but guess I am at 14 empty and 7 towing.

The gasser is much better for me -- about 75% of miles are not towing. I am getting used to the long bed, but the SRW is much better for parking in town.

[wanderingaimles]

Kellum, If you are following this, since you have the 7.3 and the 10 speed tranny, what is your trailer weight and fuel economy? And how does the mileage compare to the older gasser?

[ognend]

IdaD wrote:
That said I'm a guy who doesn't necessarily "need" a diesel but I wanted one and don't regret the purchase at all. Even when I'm not towing I think all that torque makes for a nicer driving truck.

I respect that. I started out on possibly the best diesel year GMC ever had with their Duramax (2006) - it was a simple, stout truck. I stupidly traded it for the new shiny thing (2016 6.7L Ford) and it has been a bad experience for me. While I was never left stranded on the road with the powerstroke, I got soured to the whole "diesels last longer" and "diesels are more reliable" and "diesels are towing beasts". Yes, they are beasts but that only comes into play if you are pulling heavy loads at long distances. In my case, the diesel is not reliable at all - in fact, I don't trust it at all. I realize it is one data point but that data point happens to be - me :). When I look at the engine of a 7.3L powerstroke from 2000, I can see why it lasted 600,000 miles and why it gave diesels the reliability name. When I look at the 6.7L today, the whole engine bay is chock full, can't throw a needle into it hoping it will hit the ground, I get the feeling that most repairs on a 2020 6.7L involve taking the cab off and half the engine off afterwards. Compare that to the 6.4L HEMI or 7.3L Godzilla, half the bay is empty, you can see everything....

[ognend]

valhalla360 wrote:
Our 2008 V10 is rated for 14.5k...The new trucks with stronger engines and better transmissions should be even better.

If you aren't into drag racing up hills, the new gas trucks should do just fine and as you said, no way will you make back the up front cost of the diesel based on fuel savings.

My only hesitation with the Ford 7.3 is it's a new engine and may still be in teething mode...I would probably lean towards the Dodge unless you plan to wait a while to see how the 7.3 holds up.

Yes, this is why the RAM 6.4L is more interesting to me - it has been around a couple of years, just mated to a new transmission (but from a reportedly reputable manufacturer). The new Chevy 6.6L is not interesting to me because a) it is mated to a 6-speed and b) it is new and c) darn, the new Chevys are so ugly :). The Ford sounds the best on paper, most HP, most torque - the only drawback for me is the absolutely lemonny experience I had with their 6.7L diesel.

[valhalla360]

Our 2008 V10 is rated for 14.5k...The new trucks with stronger engines and better transmissions should be even better.

If you aren't into drag racing up hills, the new gas trucks should do just fine and as you said, no way will you make back the up front cost of the diesel based on fuel savings.

My only hesitation with the Ford 7.3 is it's a new engine and may still be in teething mode...I would probably lean towards the Dodge unless you plan to wait a while to see how the 7.3 holds up.

[otrfun]

ognend, based on your opening post IMO you'd be better served going gas. The only question you seem to have is whether you'll be giving up "power" by going gas.

The 6.4 Ram Hemi and 7.3 Ford Godzilla gassers both have 400+ horsepower. That's more HP than a standard Cummins (370-385hp). A 400+ HP gas engine will pull a 11k trailer up a 7% grade at 60mph (based on personal experience). The caveat is you'll be in 2nd or 3rd gear pulling 4.5-5.5k RPM (near redline). Although massive torque at low RPM (i.e., turbo diesel) gives the impression of effortless and unlimited power, all said and done HP (along with proper gearing) ultimately determines how much work actually gets done, not torque.

I currently drive a Cummins. I absolutely love "how" this engine tows heavy. However, if I were buying a new truck tomorrow I'd probably go gas (mandatory options: an 8-10 speed tranny and the lowest available rear end ratio).

[theoldwizard1]

IdaD wrote:
... Just understand you will be dropping down in performance and fuel mileage, ...

I would not be concerned about either. OP stated that the new F250 is rated to tow more than his old one. Remember there is is economy and fuel COST ! Around where I live, diesel is at least $0.50 more per gallon and that does not include DEF.

Remember that a gasser oil change take less than 50% of the amount of oil that a diesel does and the filter costs less also.

[theoldwizard1]

ognend wrote:
... some of these new gasser/tranny combos look impressive on paper, which is what intrigued me.

They should ! The new For 7.3L gas and 10R140 were designed to replace the V10 and 6R140 in the F650 and F750.

I'm sure there was some teething problems with the 2020 model, but the 2021s should be hitting the showrooms by now.

[IdaD]

I think Ford makes really good trucks, possibly the best in general, but I trust their diesels as far as I could throw one. If you're going to switch to gas I wouldn't be afraid of buying the 7.3, it looks good on paper. Just understand you will be dropping down in performance and fuel mileage, but I do think it would be sufficient for what you're trying to do. I think the Ram and GM gas trucks would be sufficient too. That said I'm a guy who doesn't necessarily "need" a diesel but I wanted one and don't regret the purchase at all. Even when I'm not towing I think all that torque makes for a nicer driving truck.

[kellem]

We have quite the convoy some weekends pulling our trailers through the mountains of VA/WV with a variety of rigs.....fun times and quite a bit of bragging.

I was designated to the tail following Cummins and Powerstrokes up the mountains and always left well behind in my gasser and then had to listen to the bragging over the radios we handed out before each trip.

Well that all changed on our latest adventure to a resort in WV as I pushed them up the mountains with my new 7.3 10spd. Lol

Just thought I'd throw that out there and yes the 6.6 and 6.4 should also make great gassers.

[BB_TX]

I also believe either of those gassers will work for you. With the higher horsepowers and torques of newer engines and the 8 and 10 speed transmissions they are far more capable than just a few years ago.

And you were apparently unlucky on the Ford. Except for a bad high exhaust temp sensor (replaced under warranty) my 2012 F350 6.7 with 75,800 miles has been great. But once burned, it is hard to forgive and forget. I get regular emails from my dealer with coupons for $89.95 diesel oil change and $9.95 gasser oil change for DWs Expedition. Significant cost difference. And diesel fuel filter changes are nothing to sneeze at either. Plus adding DEF. And two batteries when time for replacement. Plus the initial $6,000 or so for the diesel. Some good economic reasons for a gasser.

[ognend]

BurbMan wrote:
The 8 and 10 speed auto trannies are the game changer for gas engines. The 8.1 in my old Suburban needed to drop from OD into 3rd on any incline, but if you anticipated the hill and got it to 3200 rpm (peak torque for that motor) it would pull up almost any hill at almost any speed. If you dead-legged it and waited it for it to downshift as speed decreased, it could never catch up and it was a struggle to get up the hill. That was with only 340 hp.

An 11k trailer is no lightweight, even though it's 2k lighter than your old one...

I don't really need a diesel with for the weight I'm carrying but try and find a used 3500 without one...

Cool - just so I understand what you are saying - stick with a diesel?

[BurbMan]

The 8 and 10 speed auto trannies are the game changer for gas engines. The 8.1 in my old Suburban needed to drop from OD into 3rd on any incline, but if you anticipated the hill and got it to 3200 rpm (peak torque for that motor) it would pull up almost any hill at almost any speed. If you dead-legged it and waited it for it to downshift as speed decreased, it could never catch up and it was a struggle to get up the hill. That was with only 340 hp.

An 11k trailer is no lightweight, even though it's 2k lighter than your old one...

I don't really need a diesel with for the weight I'm carrying but try and find a used 3500 without one...