Half ton TV advice

[bmcewan]

I'm new to the TT world, looking for a 19-26' TT for the wife and I. We planning to semi-retire in 5 years, when we'll be late 40's, and live a minimalist lifestyle, try fulltiming and visit a lot of the national parks.

I've read a lot of threads on the viability of pulling with a half ton pickup, and what it seems to come down to on these trucks is a low payload weight. Since there is a lot of variability in half tons, here's what I have. A 2011 Ram 1500 Tradesman, with tow package, which gives me some nice-to-haves. My limiting factor appears to be payload. Here's my TV specs:

Class IV receiver hitch, 4 and 7 point harness.
V-8 Hemi, 390hp, 407lb-ft torque
Heavy duty oil cooler
Heavy duty transmission cooler
160 amp alternator
3.55 gear ratio
Multilink Rear coil springs
6350 GVW; 14000 GCW; 1440 max payload
Max trailer 8900lbs.
To improve towing capacity, will add:
* load balancing system
* integrated electronic trailer brake controller
* 1000# rear suspension airlift system

My problem is, between the wife and I and a full tank of 26g of fuel, plus 50# of extra gear, and subtracting the 150# of driver weight (boy I wish I was back at 150#!) we're left with payload of 870 pounds.

Dialing in the tongue weight at 15% of trailer weight, I'm looking at a limit of 5800 pounds.

Have I calculated this correctly? Any advice for fulltiming in something this light? I suspect the answer is "give up and buy a 3/4 ton truck." But would appreciate any help analyzing this and some advice on looking at the problem from people with more experience on this than I. Thanks!

[Ron_Gratz]

bmcewan wrote:
---This exercise shows me there's not much left for payload. If I understand this right, I have just 6350 - 5610 - 100 (WDH) = 640# left, which at 15% leaves just 4266# for the trailer. A more aggressive 10% gives me 6400#, but since I have pretty limited experience towing I'm inclined to err on the side of caution and stay near that 4300# figure.---

You are correct to deduct about 100# from available payload to account for the weight of a WDH.

But, you also can take advantage of the fact that the WDH also can reduce the load which would otherwise be carried by the TV by transferring that load to the TT's axles.
For a TT of the size you're considering, a properly-adjusted WDH could transfer a load equal to approximately 25% of the tongue weight from the TV to the TT.
This leaves a net vertical load equal to approximately 75% of the TW to be carried by the TV.

With your estimated available payload of 640#, the maximum allowable TW could be approximately 640/0.75 = about 850#.
Using a reasonable TW% of 13% means the TT could weigh 850/0.13 = about 6500#.

Ron

[Scooter86]

Bmcewan, you certainly can fulltime in a smaller tt. Your truck is certainly a limiting factor. I would look to rent something comfortably inside specs for a week or so. It really helps prevent making a poor rv choice later on. Use that info to research floor plans and re eval your truck as well. The 5.7 has all the power you need, it may even be prudent to look into a gear swap vs a new truck. you may just gain what you need with the 3.92s

[bmcewan]

Hi guys, took me a bit to get to the scales, and the scale weight showed a rather depressing 5610#. The scale I used (at a waste transfer station) did not have ability to measure separate axle weights. This is fully loaded with full fuel, me, the wife and dog, and 50# of "stuff" in the bed to simulate travel gear.

Off the door sticker:
GVWR: 6350#
GWAR: 3900# (both front and rear axles)

This exercise shows me there's not much left for payload. If I understand this right, I have just 6350 - 5610 - 100 (WDH) = 640# left, which at 15% leaves just 4266# for the trailer. A more aggressive 10% gives me 6400#, but since I have pretty limited experience towing I'm inclined to err on the side of caution and stay near that 4300# figure.

I can see now why a lot of folks don't try to fulltime with a half-ton. The payload constraint is really tough to fit into.

To clarify from keymastr's last post, I have the tradesman 1500 pickup truck, not the van. I have no experience owning an RV, have only stayed in a few over the years with friends and family. I have limited towing experience, mostly weekend projects towing 4000# of sand or compost for a dozen miles on country roads.

[Huntindog]

lawrosa wrote:

The OP states a limit of 5800# available for TT weight. As nice and capable as this TT is.... It is higher than his limit.

The op's limit is wrong IMO, and this is why he asked here in post #1...

And once we get his axle weights from the scales it will show exactly what he has for payload...

Not that he is neccesarily getting the Nash I show, It was only a suggestion. Because the tanks on those units are all at the rear or on/near the axles. This is why I suggest a rear bath.

Also most of the Nash tongue weights are around 10%. I suggest because of floor plan and weight.






And to demonstrate that he probably has enough truck I pull a similar camper with a chevy s10 with 2700 lbs axles GVWR 4900. Fully loaded I am 200lbs away from that 4900 @ 4700 lbs.

Thats myself, grill and three crates in the bed of truck.( I ride alone)

fully filled fridge and pantry , two cases poland spring water in closet, 6 aluminum chairs under dinestte, ( these are all on or at the rear of axles) full propane, and 4 totes of clothes under the bed. All tanks empty.

Additionally if you want to go by axles, as I do, my rear axle is 2200 with WD. 2700-2200 leaves me 500lbs to work with. As far as I know the DOT would allow me to go over my GVWR as long as I do not go over my axle rating...

Would or could I live in my camper full time??? Absolutly.. Just wish it was 4 season and had that one slide...LOL..

I don't think he is all that wrong. He seems to have a pretty good grasp of towing weights.

First off, he is figuring on 15% TW. A wise decision.
I never recommend trying to cut this one close.
TW can change quite a bit as water and supplies get used and end up in different locations. Since TTs have many different layouts, and everyones usage is different.. It is impossible to say just what the TW will be. Using a conservative figure as a starting point can save a severe headache later on. This is more even more important for a fulltimer who may have to travel sometimes with full holding tanks. Dump stations are sometimes unavailable at the worst possible times.

Next the OP lists a specific payload number of 1440.. As if he got it off the TV placard. It sounds about right for a 1/2 ton. You are right that once he weighs it, the number will likely change.. But it will most certainly go down some, not up.

[keymastr]

Going back over his original post I see that he has a 2011 Dodge TRADESMAN 1500 van, not the pickup. I don't know about the current offerings but in the past the Tradesman was just that, a rather utilitarian work van that usually did not have the bigger motor or towing package. I would look closely at the loading stickers on the door frame to see what capacity it actually has.

[dadmomh]

I think what some are missing on the minimalist lifestyle is that it is not depriving yourself or living bare bones. To full time, I most definitely say a slide is a "needed" item. I would not want to see the OP get into something that would not bring the enjoyment that they are looking for. You do need room to move past the other person.

My cousin changes MHs like some folks change their socks. He's now to a 45' monster - it's gorgeous, but a monster. They can't get into much besides a KOA. His wife is miserable with it. Sitting in our wonderful little 26' one weekend, DH pondered, "what the H*** do they with need 45' for 2 people?". The answer is he has issues and no, he's not happy, but he's got the biggest and the best. She wants to go back to the days when they had an Outback and a P/U.

Suggest folks wondering about Minimalism do some reading and thinking how it might work for you....or not. In our case, it definitely works, just taking longer to get there than we'd like, but we're working toward that day. Kindle/Free or maybe $1.99.

[dadmomh]

Minimalist is most definitely a different way of thinking and living. It doesn't mean bare bones, doing without needed items, doesn't mean depriving yourself. It means if you need a new truck, you get a new truck that meets your needs. It means looking at what you "need" to live comfortably and happily. It means cleaning out all the******that you haven't used for at least 6 months and either yard sale or donate. We made a small dent in our******and came out $500 ahead and haven't missed but 1 item. DH has barely touched the garage and I haven't been in the attic until it's a bit cooler. So you have what you need. Why do we have 5 Christmas trees and all the decorations for them??? They're on their way out when I get to the attic. You would be surprised at what a mental "lift" you get sorting out. I've read several books on this (Kindle/Free, of course)and expecting DH to dig his heels in and flat refuse. He has no clue what a trash can is for. You start with 1 drawer a day or no more than 15 minutes to eliminate emotional stress or depression. If you truly have an emotional attachment to something, you keep it and take another look at another time. There is less work in housecleaning because you've unloaded a bunch of stuff that was sitting around collecting dust. It means less overall maintenance. It means having more time and money - since you're not having to maintain all this stuff you didn't need to begin with - and more time to focus on family and enjoyment of life.

I'm very serious saying that if our DS#1 that is disabled didn't have the additional needs he has and it was just DH and myself, we could be perfectly happy with our 26' trailer and our doggies. Before I get fussed at by someone thinking I'm unhappy about DS#1....forget it, he's a joy beyond measure. His needs come first. Our doggies and rescue/adopt come second, which is why we are on hold with our little 900 sq ft house....2 dogs only where we're heading. But somewhere down the line we will have cleared out all the******we have and don't need/want/use and be ready to pack up a few boxes and start a different life. It's worth a little reading to understand minimalism and the joys it can bring.

[lawrosa]

The OP states a limit of 5800# available for TT weight. As nice and capable as this TT is.... It is higher than his limit.

The op's limit is wrong IMO, and this is why he asked here in post #1...

And once we get his axle weights from the scales it will show exactly what he has for payload...

Not that he is neccesarily getting the Nash I show, It was only a suggestion. Because the tanks on those units are all at the rear or on/near the axles. This is why I suggest a rear bath.

Also most of the Nash tongue weights are around 10%. I suggest because of floor plan and weight.






And to demonstrate that he probably has enough truck I pull a similar camper with a chevy s10 with 2700 lbs axles GVWR 4900. Fully loaded I am 200lbs away from that 4900 @ 4700 lbs.

Thats myself, grill and three crates in the bed of truck.( I ride alone)

fully filled fridge and pantry , two cases poland spring water in closet, 6 aluminum chairs under dinestte, ( these are all on or at the rear of axles) full propane, and 4 totes of clothes under the bed. All tanks empty.

Additionally if you want to go by axles, as I do, my rear axle is 2200 with WD. 2700-2200 leaves me 500lbs to work with. As far as I know the DOT would allow me to go over my GVWR as long as I do not go over my axle rating...

Would or could I live in my camper full time??? Absolutly.. Just wish it was 4 season and had that one slide...LOL..

[jaycocreek]

Any advice for full timing in something this light?

Iv'e full timed in several small trailers and motorhomes.The best small one was a Beaver no-slide 24' Class C.Couch/two chairs and a full rear bath..Very comfy for three of us and pets.

Pick the right floor plan and you won't have an issue being smaller realizing the storage space not available.

As for the truck,you have more than enough truck and power for most trailers up to 26'.I pull a 30ft tongue to bumper with a F-150/5.4 and it does well,as well as my sons HD2500/6.0...

[Huntindog]

lawrosa wrote:

That Nash has a dry weight of 5061# That only leaves a little over 700# for the "stuff" 400 of which will be taken up by water in he 50 gallon tank.

The nash is a 7000 ilb trailer.. 7000-5061 = 1939....

1939 - 400 lbs water = 1539... That a lot of stuff...;)

And lets say 100 ilbs goes to the rear wheels from the WD...

Lets say 1400 left...

The TT is NOT the limiting factor.
The OP states a limit of 5800# available for TT weight. As nice and capable as this TT is.... It is higher than his limit.
Unless he is willing to accept that he can only carry 700+ in the TT including water.

[Ron_Gratz]

According to the2011 DODGE RAM 1500 PICKUP TOWING CHART,
"Maximum Trailer Weight = GCWR - Curb wt. -150 lbs. (allowance for driver) - 20 lbs. (variation allowance)".

The TOWING CHART neglects to add that the GCW also must include the total weight of occupants and cargo added to the TV, in excess of 150# -- including the weight of a WDH, if used.

Per Dodge, the OP's allowable trailer weight, based on GCWR and OP's cargo assumptions, would be 8900-570-100 = 8230#.
Since this weight probably would cause the TV's GVWR (and, possibly, the receiver TW rating) to be exceeded, the allowable trailer weight should be based on TV's GVWR (or receiver rating) rather than on the published "Maximum Trailer Weight".

Ron

[wmoses]

IndyCamp wrote:
The OP said he wants to live a "minimalist" lifestyle so I'm not sure why people are suggesting a 3500 and a fifth wheel.

It is absolutely possible to full time in a smaller rig. It all depends on what kind of camper you are.
....
Only the OP can say how much space he needs.

Agreed. Also, the OP states that he has a certain size truck (which we should assume that he is intending to stay with) and is clearly thinking smaller trailer with his initial 5800# calculation.

I can only surmise that some folk don't read the requirements in posts given the tangents that these threads often veer off into.

[IndyCamp]

The OP said he wants to live a "minimalist" lifestyle so I'm not sure why people are suggesting a 3500 and a fifth wheel.

It is absolutely possible to full time in a smaller rig. It all depends on what kind of camper you are.

My parents part time in an Aliner and can live in it for months at a time. They're about to hit the road for five months. That's five months of living in an Aliner so I don't understand why some say a small TT isn't enough space. They spend most of their time outside and won't be in any areas where it will rain for a week straight.

Only the OP can say how much space he needs.

[wmoses]

bmcewan wrote:
I'm new to the TT world, looking for a 19-26' TT for the wife and I. We planning to semi-retire in 5 years, when we'll be late 40's, and live a minimalist lifestyle, try fulltiming and visit a lot of the national parks.

I've read a lot of threads on the viability of pulling with a half ton pickup, and what it seems to come down to on these trucks is a low payload weight. Since there is a lot of variability in half tons, here's what I have. A 2011 Ram 1500 Tradesman, with tow package, which gives me some nice-to-haves. My limiting factor appears to be payload. Here's my TV specs:

Class IV receiver hitch, 4 and 7 point harness.
V-8 Hemi, 390hp, 407lb-ft torque
Heavy duty oil cooler
Heavy duty transmission cooler
160 amp alternator
3.55 gear ratio
Multilink Rear coil springs
6350 GVW; 14000 GCW; 1440 max payload
Max trailer 8900lbs.
To improve towing capacity, will add:
* load balancing system
* integrated electronic trailer brake controller
* 1000# rear suspension airlift system

My problem is, between the wife and I and a full tank of 26g of fuel, plus 50# of extra gear, and subtracting the 150# of driver weight (boy I wish I was back at 150#!) we're left with payload of 870 pounds.

Dialing in the tongue weight at 15% of trailer weight, I'm looking at a limit of 5800 pounds.

Have I calculated this correctly? Any advice for fulltiming in something this light? I suspect the answer is "give up and buy a 3/4 ton truck." But would appreciate any help analyzing this and some advice on looking at the problem from people with more experience on this than I. Thanks!

Your calculation of 5800# (fully loaded) is certainly in the ballpark of what you can pull with the truck you have. As a matter of fact I would even use the 75% "rule" on the rated 8900# to arrive at 6700# fully loaded), leaving you 950# under GCWR.

Figuring say 1500# of cargo in the trailer you are down to 5200# light. The heavy tongue load based on 12% would be 800#. Working backwards on your truck's payload you will have 640# payload remaining for gas, people, cargo etc. Don't forget you can put cargo in the trailer to ease up on the payload seen by the truck, as long as you don't exceed the 6700#/800# as-weighed weights. Since you are wanting to fulltime, the cargo carried is very important.

With the 1/2 ton truck, payload is certainly the limiting factor, but also the pulling power is not far behind.

I recently finished a pull from Houston TX to Santa Clarita CA through New Mexico and Arizona and my truck performed beautifully, pulling my trailer at 7500#. The tongue load is about 800# as well. Maximum altitude was almost 5000' and max ambient temperatures of 106 deg.F in the desert. I have many more measurements I can share upon request.

Am I happy with my 1/2 ton - you bet! The only thing I would improve is the factory tranny cooler.