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Have our trucks got too much power yet?

4x4ord
Explorer III
Explorer III
I've often thought about all the energy being wasted with braking applications and exhaust braking on down grades. It's only a matter of time before our rvs will have electric drive axles to help hold back on the down hill while charging a battery pack so the energy can be used to help push us up the up hill sections of our journey. Instead of having 500 hp under the hood we could get by with a more fuel efficient 300 hp diesel and have another 200 hp available at our trailer axles.
2023 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5
63 REPLIES 63

wilber1
Explorer
Explorer
A small engine at a higher power setting is more thermally efficient than a larger engine at a lower power setting. That's why the Rutan Voyager shut down its larger engine when it got to altitude and just used its smaller engine in cruise during its round the world flight.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC

2011 RAM 3500 SRW
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

4x4ord
Explorer III
Explorer III
Changing the tuning to lower power levels is just as apt to lower the fuel economy as it is improve it. I think gaining fuel economy during low load situations such as cruising down the highway empty would require a smaller displacement engine, lower boost, high fuel pressure and a higher compression ratio.
2023 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5

FishOnOne
Nomad
Nomad
ShinerBock wrote:
While I like 500 crank hp in stock form on a diesel truck, I don't like what they will have to do to get it there to keep emissions in check. That means pushing fuel systems to their limits and adding more unreliable emissions equipment. I am more of a fan of adding reliable power after it rolls off the assembly line.

It would be nice if they added the ability to change power levels on the fly like a tuner does. When you are not towing, it is safe to run higher powered tunes and switch to lower power tunes depending on load and temps. Although, most trucks(both gas and diesel) already do this without a switch and most people don't know it.


And you have engines with the CP4.2 pump producing 400hp and less.
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"

JRscooby
Explorer II
Explorer II
bikendan wrote:
mkirsch wrote:
Bedlam wrote:
A plug in hybrid would work well as a tow vehicle, but the weight, cost and complexity makes it hard to recover any savings


Nobody ever promised any "savings" at least not any monetary ones.

You're supposed to spend as much as you can, "sacrifice" in the name of the planet, so you can show off how good of a person you are to everyone else. "See? I drive a HYBRID! It cost me a LOT of money, but I'm SAVING the planet, so it's worth it! Pat me on the back! Please?"


That's why the Prius nickname is the "Pious", because that's how their owners act.:W


This is why I do not recycle, or do any of the other things we should do. I know the planet will survive. Humanity? Not sure. And when I look around at the world, am told we are the greatest we have ever been, greatest country, and all that, I have to think, "If this is the best we can do, is it worth saving?"

bikendan
Explorer
Explorer
mkirsch wrote:
Bedlam wrote:
A plug in hybrid would work well as a tow vehicle, but the weight, cost and complexity makes it hard to recover any savings


Nobody ever promised any "savings" at least not any monetary ones.

You're supposed to spend as much as you can, "sacrifice" in the name of the planet, so you can show off how good of a person you are to everyone else. "See? I drive a HYBRID! It cost me a LOT of money, but I'm SAVING the planet, so it's worth it! Pat me on the back! Please?"


That's why the Prius nickname is the "Pious", because that's how their owners act.:W
Dan- Firefighter, Retired:C, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur:W, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP:(), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes

mkirsch
Nomad II
Nomad II
Bedlam wrote:
A plug in hybrid would work well as a tow vehicle, but the weight, cost and complexity makes it hard to recover any savings


Nobody ever promised any "savings" at least not any monetary ones.

You're supposed to spend as much as you can, "sacrifice" in the name of the planet, so you can show off how good of a person you are to everyone else. "See? I drive a HYBRID! It cost me a LOT of money, but I'm SAVING the planet, so it's worth it! Pat me on the back! Please?"

Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
While I like 500 crank hp in stock form on a diesel truck, I don't like what they will have to do to get it there to keep emissions in check. That means pushing fuel systems to their limits and adding more unreliable emissions equipment. I am more of a fan of adding reliable power after it rolls off the assembly line.

It would be nice if they added the ability to change power levels on the fly like a tuner does. When you are not towing, it is safe to run higher powered tunes and switch to lower power tunes depending on load and temps. Although, most trucks(both gas and diesel) already do this without a switch and most people don't know it.
2014 Ram 2500 6.7L CTD
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS

JRscooby
Explorer II
Explorer II
I think I have been discussing a idea kind of like this with MH and E-toad.

If you go back 25-30yrs, 220-300hp was what a typical truck pulling an RV had. Heck sold a 1992 F250 with the 7.3 diesel...it had 180hp from the factory and was a nice towing machine. Not the fastest up hills but never a question of making it.


Back about 40 years most freight trucks where running 290 or 318. And a transmission with a torque rating of 950 ft/lbs, was heavy enough for most.

valhalla360
Nomad III
Nomad III
4x4ord wrote:

If your right (and you're probably not far off) that the typical RV is only used 2k miles per year that means about 90% of a typical pick up's miles are spent without a trailer in tow. Even when the trailer is in tow only about 110 hp is required for cruising down the highway so we end up buying a 475 hp engine that gets employed for 1% of its life. The rest of the time a 220 to 300 hp engine would work just fine. In spite of that I agree with you that there might not be enough savings to warrant the the cost of electric drive trailer axles .... depends what they will cost.


If you go back 25-30yrs, 220-300hp was what a typical truck pulling an RV had. Heck sold a 1992 F250 with the 7.3 diesel...it had 180hp from the factory and was a nice towing machine. Not the fastest up hills but never a question of making it.

For 90% of RVs, the stock gas V8 with 350-390hp, is overkill. Of course, you have to keep in mind, the efficiency is a function of how many HP you ACTUALLY USE. Drop back to that 110hp and there isn't a lot of efficiency gains to be made with a smaller engine while rolling along the freeway at steady speeds.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV

Huntindog
Explorer
Explorer
Bedlam wrote:
You've been listening to Daryle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJcw4yoIseo


He got the idea for the song from me!:B
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW

Bedlam
Moderator
Moderator
You've been listening to Daryle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJcw4yoIseo

Host Mammoth 11.5 on Ram 5500 HD

Huntindog
Explorer
Explorer
4x4ord wrote:
valhalla360 wrote:
Commercial trucks things can be viable because they do 50-100k miles per year so even very small per mile improvements can be justified.

RV's...might average a couple thousand miles per year.

But even with trucks, freeway driving, there isn't a huge savings from going the hybrid route (even in mountains). Where hybrids shine is stop and go traffic....city busses, garbage trucks, UPS trucks but those have wildly different use patterns compared to the typical RV.

Keep in mind, once you get a diesel up in the 50-90% of max power range, you don't see a lot of difference in efficiency over that range, so there isn't a lot to gain.


If your right (and you're probably not far off) that the typical RV is only used 2k miles per year that means about 90% of a typical pick up's miles are spent without a trailer in tow. Even when the trailer is in tow only about 110 hp is required for cruising down the highway so we end up buying a 475 hp engine that gets employed for 1% of its life. The rest of the time a 220 to 300 hp engine would work just fine. In spite of that I agree with you that there might not be enough savings to warrant the the cost of electric drive trailer axles .... depends what they will cost.


Enjoy life. Drive it like you stole it.

There is not thing as too much power, its like a girl to pretty or too much money. or too much fun.
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW

4x4ord
Explorer III
Explorer III
valhalla360 wrote:
Commercial trucks things can be viable because they do 50-100k miles per year so even very small per mile improvements can be justified.

RV's...might average a couple thousand miles per year.

But even with trucks, freeway driving, there isn't a huge savings from going the hybrid route (even in mountains). Where hybrids shine is stop and go traffic....city busses, garbage trucks, UPS trucks but those have wildly different use patterns compared to the typical RV.

Keep in mind, once you get a diesel up in the 50-90% of max power range, you don't see a lot of difference in efficiency over that range, so there isn't a lot to gain.


If your right (and you're probably not far off) that the typical RV is only used 2k miles per year that means about 90% of a typical pick up's miles are spent without a trailer in tow. Even when the trailer is in tow only about 110 hp is required for cruising down the highway so we end up buying a 475 hp engine that gets employed for 1% of its life. The rest of the time a 220 to 300 hp engine would work just fine. In spite of that I agree with you that there might not be enough savings to warrant the the cost of electric drive trailer axles .... depends what they will cost.
2023 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
FishOnOne wrote:
I'll take the 500 hp... Thank you very much!


I'm with Fish!

(Wait, did I just say that? Lol)
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

valhalla360
Nomad III
Nomad III
Commercial trucks things can be viable because they do 50-100k miles per year so even very small per mile improvements can be justified.

RV's...might average a couple thousand miles per year.

But even with trucks, freeway driving, there isn't a huge savings from going the hybrid route (even in mountains). Where hybrids shine is stop and go traffic....city busses, garbage trucks, UPS trucks but those have wildly different use patterns compared to the typical RV.

Keep in mind, once you get a diesel up in the 50-90% of max power range, you don't see a lot of difference in efficiency over that range, so there isn't a lot to gain.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV