How much solar?

[_DJ_1]

I am planning to put a 12/110v TruckFridge in my camper. I had a 12/110v Engel that takes about the same amount of juice as the Truckfridge.

I got along fine with no solar and could go 2 days and nights on one Group 31 before starting the genny.

I do not want a huge amount. Thinking along the lines of 60 watts. This is 2 1/2 times the amount the fridge uses so I'm thinking I could get three days before I use the genny.

Just don't want to spend the money for 60 watts if it will do no good.

Help!!!

Thanks.......DJ

[bka0721]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Ragingbull,

I'm already 100 inches wide. Adding more width might put me over the legal limit. (anyone know what that is btw?).

Don, to answer your question; 102 inches, generally.

Vehicle Widths

Summarized here are the California Vehicle Code (CVC) sections related to vehicle width. Some of the CVC sections on this web page are paraphrased for brevity. For the full legal wording, please go to the on-line CVC Width Sections 35100-35111.

GENERAL RULE

35100. (a) The total outside width of any vehicle or its load shall not exceed 102 inches.

MEASUREMENT

35100.1. (a) The metric equivalent of 102 inches is 2.6 meters.

(b) The width measurement of any vehicle with side walls shall be made from the outside wall of the two opposite sides of the vehicle.

CITIES & COUNTIES

35100. (c) A city or county may prohibit a width in excess of 96 inches upon highways under its jurisdiction.

35105. Any city organized under a freeholders' charter may permit a width in excess of these limits when used within the city.

VEHICLE & LOAD EXEMPTIONS

35101. When any vehicle is equipped with pneumatic tires, the maximum width from the outside of one wheel and tire to the opposite shall not exceed 108 inches.

35100.5. The outside width of a cotton module mover and the load thereon shall not exceed 130 inches in width. For details, see the web page: Cotton Module Movers.

35102. When any vehicle carries a load of loosely piled agricultural products such as hay, straw, or leguminous plants in bulk but not crated, baled, boxed, or sacked, the load shall not exceed 120 inches in width.

35104. The following vehicles shall not exceed a width of 120 inches: (a) Special mobile equipment. (b) Special construction or highway maintenance equipment. (c) Motor vehicles for hauling feed for livestock that are exempted from registration, except when operated on a highway during darkness.

35111. No passenger vehicle shall be operated on any highway with any load extending beyond the line of the fenders on its left side or more than six inches beyond the line of the fenders on its right side.

BUSES

35106. (a) Motor coaches or buses may have a maximum width of 102 inches.

(b) Motor coaches or buses operated under the jurisdiction of the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) in urban or suburban service may have a maximum outside width of 104 inches, when approved by the PUC. Motor coaches or buses operated by common carriers of passengers for hire in urban or suburban service and not under the jurisdiction of the Public Utilities Commission may have a maximum outside width not exceeding 104 inches.

(c) "Urban and suburban service" means in urban or suburban areas, or between municipalities if the one-way route mileage is no more than 50 miles.

(b) Motor coach routes over state highways outside limits of incorporated cities where the one-way route mileage is over 25 miles, but does not exceed 50 miles, shall be approved by the Department of Transportation.

DEVICES

35100. (b) Safety devices shall not be included in the calculation of width. (For more information on safety devices, see "SAFETY DEVICES" below.)

35103. (a) A recreational vehicle may exceed the maximum width if the excess width is from an appurtenance that does not exceed six inches beyond either sidewall. (b) An appurtenance is an integral part of a vehicle and includes awnings, grab handles, lighting equipment, cameras, and vents. An appurtenance may not be used as a load carrying device.

35109. Lights, mirrors, or devices which are required may extend beyond the permissible width no more than 10 inches on each side.

35110. Door handles, hinges, cable cinchers, chain binders, and holders for placards warning of hazardous materials may extend three inches on each side of the vehicle.

SAFETY DEVICES: According to The California Highway Patrol's Commercial Enforcement Manual "HPM" 82.6 Chapter 8, Revised March 2001, "Size and Weight, Section 1(b)(5):

(a) The maximum permitted width for the items listed in this section is 108 inches, however, they shall not exceed three inches beyond either side of the vehicle.

(b) Safety devices that are excluded from determination of vehicle width include the following: door handles, cable cinchers, chain binders, corner caps, rear and side door hinges and their protective hardware, rain gutters, side marker lamps, lift pads for 'piggyback' trailers, tarps and tarp hardware, tiedown assemblies on platform trailers, wall variations from true flat, weevil pins, and sockets on low bed trailers.

(c) The exemption granted in this section applies only to the listed items and does not include stake pockets, stakes, and other items of equipment.

FIRE TRUCKS

The California Code of Regulations (CCR) allows fire trucks to have a maximum width of 120 inches. See "Fire Truck Exemptions" in CCR Section 1411.7 (g). The pertinent statement is copied below:

(g) Fire trucks may exceed width limitations provided in Division 15 of the California Vehicle Code but cannot exceed 120 inches.

IMPLEMENTS OF HUSBANDRY

Various types of farm equipment have exemptions for width, length, height, and weight. See California Vehicle Code Sections 36660 through 36627.

CONTACTS -- PERMIT LOADS

FOR OVERSIZE OR OVERWEIGHT PERMITS, CONTACT STAFF IN THE TWO MIDDLE COLUMNS OF THIS WEB PAGE: OFFICE OF TRUCK SERVICES PHONE LIST.

CONTACTS -- NON-PERMIT LOADS

Caltrans Legal Truck Size & Weight Work Group
Casey Robb
Manuel Fonseca
General number (916) 654-5741
E-mail: Truck Size & Weight Unit.

Return to the Caltrans "Office of Truck Services" page.

Revised 8/19/10.

[pianotuna]

Hi Ragingbull,

I'm already 100 inches wide. Adding more width might put me over the legal limit. (anyone know what that is btw?)

I wanted to add panels to both sides.

I've also considered adding fold down panels to the rear of class C, but they would get dirty rather quickly I fear, and hosing them down in below zero weather would be a chore.

Another definitely workable idea is panels that would nest underneath each other. The upper level would be active while traveling and the lower level could be deployed when stopped.

Ragingbull wrote:
I'm surprised no one has come up with a hinge mount that allows the panels to hang over the side and lock down while moving. When setup at camp you could swing them up and have them lock into place. No roof space taken at all and a little extra shade to boot.

You could probably rig some kind of setup to work in conjunction with your slide outs if you have them.

[recycler]

Ragingbull wrote:
I'm surprised no one has come up with a hinge mount that allows the panels to hang over the side and lock down while moving. When setup at camp you could swing them up and have them lock into place. No roof space taken at all and a little extra shade to boot.

You could probably rig some kind of setup to work in conjunction with your slide outs if you have them.

:h hmm sounds like an interesting idea...

DJ i would price out panels per watt and go with the 60 watt if it is the better deal..if your only looking for an extra day or two may not need a bigger set up..plus with your pop top wieght figures in.. i would go with bigger myself..

[Lobocop]

I'm running 260 watts, installed it myself (simple to do), and my camper hasn't been plugged into shore power in over a year, we don't conserve much at all. The biggest piece of advice I can give is have the proper size wire providing the least amount of power loss and enough wattage to make up for cloudy days.

[Ragingbull]

I'm surprised no one has come up with a hinge mount that allows the panels to hang over the side and lock down while moving. When setup at camp you could swing them up and have them lock into place. No roof space taken at all and a little extra shade to boot.

You could probably rig some kind of setup to work in conjunction with your slide outs if you have them.

[Simplygib]

~DJ~ wrote:

RV daytrader wrote:

ryhed wrote:
forget installing it on the roof. Mine has a 50ft cable. camp in the shade charge in the sun.

totally agree!...why have to park in full sun with roof mounted panels?...plus with portable panel you can angle it to the early morning and late evening sun. Now if you like parking in the sun then thats a different story!

But I'm afraid that when I got back from fishing it would be GONE!!!!! :E

Another advantage to roof-mounted panels - three-stage charging while you're driving. But if you're gonna park in the shade - forget about it. I usually camp in the desert in winter or in cooler locations in summer (coast, higher elevations), so don't mind parking in sun at all.

[crosscheck]

DJ,

I started out with 190W(2X95W) panels to power everything which includes the biggest draw, my fridge/freezer. 4.7 amps when cycling. I noticed that when the day/night temps went over 90/65F, the fridge was sucking the batteries(4AGM,400amp/hr)even in the day sun. Installed another 140W panel and haven't looked back. Have plenty of power for my wifes hairdryer, some micro use, toaster, coffee grinder, blender, jacks, roof, electronics, late night led's.

My advise is to double what you think you might use. That is both solar and batteries.2 years and genny hour time can be counted on one hand.

Dave

[_DJ_1]

RV daytrader wrote:

ryhed wrote:
forget installing it on the roof. Mine has a 50ft cable. camp in the shade charge in the sun.

totally agree!...why have to park in full sun with roof mounted panels?...plus with portable panel you can angle it to the early morning and late evening sun. Now if you like parking in the sun then thats a different story!

But I'm afraid that when I got back from fishing it would be GONE!!!!! :E

[RV_daytrader]

ryhed wrote:
forget installing it on the roof. Mine has a 50ft cable. camp in the shade charge in the sun.

totally agree!...why have to park in full sun with roof mounted panels?...plus with portable panel you can angle it to the early morning and late evening sun. Now if you like parking in the sun then thats a different story!

[JimK-NY]

I have a small compressor fridge that pulls about 2.5 amps. On a hot day it can run almost full time during the day and maybe 2/3rd at night. Top consumption is probably about 48 AH/day. My wife also uses a CPAP that pulls about 25 AH/day. My lighting is all LED but I do have a 12 v charger for my laptop. Anyway, all together I probably use about twice the power that you plan to use. I have two type 31 HT AGM batteries for a total of 300 AH. I have 270 watts of solar. I would not want to have anything less. On sunny, summer days I have no problem keeping my batteries charged, but that changes in the winter months when the sun is low. It also changes on cloudy days and whenever I camp in the shade. As long as you are going through the expenses of installation and wiring and a controller don't skimp on the size of the panel. Also don't skimp on the gauge of the wiring. Use at least 8, or preferrably 6 gauge, wiring.

[Simplygib]

~DJ~ wrote:


It is advertised as 24 watts. So I guess about 2 amps? My Engel ranges from 1.5 to 2.5.

So that's 48 amps per day for the fridge alone. Add your lights, water pump, furnace usage, and anything else to that and that 100 watt system (referring to your other thread) starts looking kind of skinny, unless you're comfortable topping off with the genset.

[wintersun]

First know how many amp hours the fridge needs per day and the demand it will place on the camper's battery. That amount need to be replenished while the sun is shinning by the solar panel. Figure 5 hours of full sunlight for the system.

99% of the solar panels made are too large for camper roofs. The panel needs to be secured to the roof and not shaded by anything else on the roof or it can easily lose a third of its output. The 100 Watt from AMsolar and the 140 Watt Kyocera panels are both very narrow and will fit between vents and skylights, etc. on the roof. I fit two of the 100 Watt AMsolar panels on my camper and it is a short bed type. If I could have fit two of the Kyocera panels I would have done so but they were too long for my planned locations.

Cheapest way to go is with a high voltage panel and a cheap converter. A panel with 34 volts or more output can be used with smaller gauge wires. A MPPT controller provides maximum efficiency and current to the battery but a cheap controller will provide 80% the output and be cheaper to buy and install.

I have two 110 AH batteries and at most have discharged them 20% and the fuly recharge takes two hours on average even during the fall months with the 200 Watts and 11 amps from the panels fed through a MPPT controller. As it turned out a single 100 Watt panel would have been adequate most of the time.

[Camper_Jeff___K]

I'll weigh in here again quickly.
I understand the Kyrocera 140 watt panels are intendedfor RV usage.
Check your intended installation area for shadow casting on the panels.
AC units and open vents or hatches are major culprits of unintended shadowing.
Try amsolar and arizona wind and sun for prices and other stores.

[bka0721]

DJ, do it yourself. Like Mellow Mike said, it is not that difficult if you just follow some simple steps. You have my number, call me anytime. What I did on my roof (not my trailer) would work perfect for you. That way you can add an additional panel, or two, if needed. It will really depend on your seasonal useasage and where you go and what you plan on AmpH demand. Believe me, there will be more AmpH demand than you might be planning. Bigfootford is right, use a template, or do like I did.

Also, be careful about advice of those people saying get a BIG panel. Remember snow load (parked/stored), tilting for Sun angle shadow (if more than one panel) and wind load will impact the cells by stressing them and the anchors in your roof.

I love my solar and the freedom it provides me, but economics, available area and battery space are a factor. For me? My 900w is not enough!