I'm going to do a 6.0 PSD engine swap!!!

[vacuumbed]

It's been about a year and a half since I sold my 2005 E450 that I bought new. I miss my van.

Since then, I bought a 1997 Ford E350 Airstream B190. I like it because it reminds me of the 2005 that I used to own. It is however, a gasser. I hinted about swapping a 6.0 PSD in to this van. I wasn't kidding. Member carringB helped me locate the companies that sell retired E450 ambulances. These cutaway vans make a great donor as they have the 6.0, and they are loaded with power options. I will be moving the front clip, dash, front doors ans well as the drivetrain over to my 1997 van.


Well, I just pulled the trigger on a 2008 E450, got it for $1,000! It's super clean. I will post pics soon. It will make a great donor vehicle, it has the newer front clip.

There's just a slight problem. The 6.0 PSD is seized up. :E

It's probably hydro locked from a failed EGR cooler, and the engine is going to come out anyway. I'm excited to get started on this!

[Lessmore]

jevanb wrote:
A built 6.0 is a great motor,if the problems areas are taken care of. lots of HP potential at a very cheap price

I always wondered why Ford didn't take care of the problems and 'bulletproof' the 6.0 at the factory...to begin with ?

I know the 7.3 liter PSD was a wonderful engine. A neighbour used to be a utility lineman and his service truck was an F 350, 7.3 diesel, 5 speed standard, DRW.

When he retired it had 400,000 on the odometer and he noted that it was still running well and being used as a regular service truck to years later.

[idaho_camper]

vacuumbed wrote:
So as you know I've been told the engine is seized in the E450 I bought. I decided to make a few calls to find more info on this vehicle myself.

I spoke with the fleet manager of the ambulances for that city it was in. He said about a year ago they had it towed to their Ford dealer as it was running poorly. After the dealer worked on it, it never ran again. They were told it needed a new long block and it had no oil pressure. This seems a little suspect to me. I'm sure a lot of dealers are just suggesting customers buy a new engine when they don't want to fix it.

Well, I'm glad to hear that there likely wasn't anyone in urgent medical need in the rear of that thing when it seized!

I'm not a big fan of the 6.0, but I do LOVE these types of threads. Subscribed.

Good luck!

[jevanb]

A built 6.0 is a great motor,if the problems areas are taken care of. lots of HP potential at a very cheap price

[rjstractor]

FishOnOne wrote:
The purpose for a high idle feature is to prevent wet stacking when the engine is idled for long periods.

In an ambulance application like the OP's truck, the high idle is necessary to handle high electrical loads while at an emergency scene- lighting and HVAC. In my department we just shut them down if lighting and HVAC is not needed. FWIW, we have 5 E450s, one has a 6.0 and the others 7.3s. The newer 6.0 spends as much time at the Ford dealer as the other 4 combined. AMR, the local private company still runs 7.3 powered E350s with over 400,000 miles on them. They had a few 6.0 powered ambulances but could not afford to keep them running. They're buying Sprinters now. To the OP, good luck with your project, looking forward to seeing the results!

[vacuumbed]

This must have been a function in my 2005 E450 that I used to own. I imagine the 2008 ambulance I'm buying has it as well.

[Wes_Tausend]

...

I think the best way to prevent wet stacking is to just turn the truck off. Even at high idle, I don't think a diesel develops enough heat to achieve clean burning because it suffers lack of load.

At work, our old locomotives sometimes ran continuously for years. When a long idled locomotive was put to work, it often blew so much fiery soot out, it started prairie fires near the track. On the other hand, newer locomotives have an automatic shut-down feature designed to save fuel, sometimes as soon as 5 minutes after non-active operation. A side benefit is less accumulated soot. I'll bet the mean-time-between-overhaul increases too.

I recently bought a 7.3 truck that came with a dealer installed Ford Auxiliary Idle Control. But my intent is to avoid excess idle time and I don't think the original owner idled it much either as the Control looks unused. This strategy may require more frequent starter replacement, but so be it. The truck starts in 1/2 turn when warm anyway.

Note that prevention of wet stacking is not listed as a System Description use for the factory high idle control.

Wes
...

[FishOnOne]

vacuumbed wrote:
The diesels are hard to find in a B and C rv. This is going to be a lot of work, but I'm anxious to get started. In addition to the engine swap I am remodeling the interior of the Airstream. I've allready sold the stove, fridge, toilet, and I'm selling the A/C. I'm putting all new appliances in it as well as new carpet and upholstery on the couch. I just got a new replacement fantastic fan too. It's going to be sweet. I hope they don't mind I mentioned this in the TV section.

Back to the 6.0. 🙂

What's the purpose of the high idle kit? The 2005 E450 that I used to own would raise it's own idle speed if I let it idle for a few minutes. I can't remember, but I think it did it when it was cold.

I saw a video on YouTube about a catastrophic failure 6.0. It wasn't rebuildable. I'm hoping that's not the case when mine arrives.

I can't imagine an ambulance driver would have let it overheat knowingly, but it's all speculation at this point. I can't wait to get it.

The purpose for a high idle feature is to prevent wet stacking when the engine is idled for long periods.

[Hank85713]

high idle kit to keep rpms up to prevent the coking a previous guy referred to. Also helps keep the alternator up to par for loads, I just installed a 160 amp aftermarket alternator vs the 110 that was OEM and indicating it was on its way out.

With diesel gens (big ones) if you idle them too long without load they will soon soot up bad and have problems, thus the need for load or high idle to keep it burned off (called wet stacking). They say this is the problem with the EGR sooting up on the 6.0 leading to problems.

[vacuumbed]

The diesels are hard to find in a B and C rv. This is going to be a lot of work, but I'm anxious to get started. In addition to the engine swap I am remodeling the interior of the Airstream. I've allready sold the stove, fridge, toilet, and I'm selling the A/C. I'm putting all new appliances in it as well as new carpet and upholstery on the couch. I just got a new replacement fantastic fan too. It's going to be sweet. I hope they don't mind I mentioned this in the TV section.

Back to the 6.0. 🙂

What's the purpose of the high idle kit? The 2005 E450 that I used to own would raise it's own idle speed if I let it idle for a few minutes. I can't remember, but I think it did it when it was cold.

I saw a video on YouTube about a catastrophic failure 6.0. It wasn't rebuildable. I'm hoping that's not the case when mine arrives.

I can't imagine an ambulance driver would have let it overheat knowingly, but it's all speculation at this point. I can't wait to get it.

[Hank85713]

make sure to add a high idle kit like ambulances have or do the built one as found on the FTE site. Low idle speed is what caused the ambulance issues and ford has a plug in kit to cover it. I have one never installed it, BIL has and he loves it when its needed at the work site. supposedly goes under the passenger seat I really dont know like I said I didnt install.

I also posted that I test drove a couple of class c's with the engine, the engine was not the thing to keep us from buying, it was coach issues. Sure wish I could have found a diesel version of what we bought!

[jus2shy]

Good luck with your engine swap. Once you get the engine though, pop off the valve cover and see if you can take a look at a lifter. We run these engines on our para-transit fleet which means lots of idling light the ambulance guys. One issue we have that isn't frequently mentioned on the web is fuel washing. So the oil gets over 5% fuel saturation (we averaged about 7 or 8% fuel dilution every 7500 mile oil change but this was in-spec for Navistar). We noticed that the lifters would go out of round over 100,000 miles and suspect fuel dilution as the cause of it (it lowers the viscosity on the oil). Of course there is the coking of the intake manifold as well that seems like you're ready to get handled.

[rowekmr]

To the OP great idea and project, I'm subscribed! I've always had interest in a Class B but never had a chance to check one out in person. I have had a E350 (V10) that I really liked and would have kept it but I need 4 wheel drive. I pulled my TT about 10,000 miles behind V10's and a few thousands behind the 7.4L's but my current TV with the 6.0L is better for power and efficiency. I completely went through my original Excursion V10 (4.30 gear) and was able to get a best mpg of 16 mpg empty and around 7-8 mpg's pulling the TT in signature. This Excursion with the 6.0L that I also went all the way through engine and did some upgrades and can get 21-23 mpg empty but haven't towed the TT long distance yet but pulled a steel (heavy) auto trailer with my Acura and got 14 mpg before the work/updates.

As for rebuilding if you choose to not do it yourself here are a few places I looked at when I contemplated mines. For the price of getting head work if they are out of spec or cracked plus the bulletproofing the existing engine getting one of these isn't a big increase in price:

http://www.ashevilleengine.com/

http://performancemachinemfg.com/c-283486-ford-6-0l-powerstroke-03-07-crate-engines.html

Good luck and keep up posted!

[FishOnOne]

I'm interested too... Here in the Houston area there's a HVAC company that runs their entire fleet with Ford 6.0 psd vans. They're the ones that put the HVAC in our house when we had it built, an they come once a year to PM the AC for the past 6 years and I'll always ask the service man how's the 6.0 psd holding up. The response is always positive and they plan to run them until the wheels fall off.

Good luck...

[vacuumbed]

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

Count me in as an interested bystander and thanks for sharing.

Offhand, it does seem like a well executed, bullet-proofed result will actually increase the value of the RV unit to a savvy buyer, although it does not seem like your intent is resale. Even if you need a longblock, they can't be that much considering the easy buy-in. The important thing is the hundreds of detailed items you now have to bolt right on. Priceless.

Actually, I admire your apparent interest in fuel effciency more than I admire those who seek pure, useless power (not that there's anything wrong with that). After all, any 250 HP can pull interstate... but only a few truly outstanding OEM powerplants throw the screws to OPEC, and the massaged 6.0 will have ample power to boot. In my book, when it comes to powerplant fuel economy, the turbo'd 5.9L Cummins and turbo'd 6.0L Ford naturally have the best shot because of their comparatively conservative displacement. Yet neither is a slouch in the power department either. The later multishot injectors are an efficiency improvement over earlier 7.3L engines too. Performance is an art. The 6.0 is a great canvas.

There are a lot of us that dream of this sort of custom adventure. You will be living it. I know it's probably more hobby than practical, but mastering a machine like this still beats climbing Mt Everest just because it is there. Every time you look at it... drive it... it will be like standing on the summit again.

Great project. Excellent plan IMHO. 🙂

Wes
...

Thanks for posting Wes, I love the way you wrote this. You read my mind in my interest for doing this.

If it needs to be rebuilt, I may try my hand at it. I have rebuilt about 9 engines in my life, but they have been Ford gassers and one Cadillac 4100. If I end up doing this diesel it will be a big accomplishment for me. I love the experience of rebuilding an engine. There's a big feeling of accomplishment when you drive a vehicle that you built.

I completely agree with you on the conservative displacement of the 6.0 PSD and the 5.9 Cummins. I forgot to mention that when asked why not a 7.3 PSD. The smaller displacement does appeal to me. The design is more efficient and modern than the older 7.3, it's mostly the emissions, the Ford gold coolant, and poor EGR cooler design that created issues for the 6.0 in my opinion.

My biggest reason for doing this is that I love the sound of a diesel and the way it drives. The fuel economy is a close second! I am hopeful that it will be a little better than the V10 that is in there now. It's just a little perk. I know I won't come out ahead money wise on this, it's the love of the diesel.

Vince

[Wes_Tausend]

...

Count me in as an interested bystander and thanks for sharing.

Offhand, it does seem like a well executed, bullet-proofed result will actually increase the value of the RV unit to a savvy buyer, although it does not seem like your intent is resale. Even if you need a longblock, they can't be that much considering the easy buy-in. The important thing is the hundreds of detailed items you now have to bolt right on. Priceless.

Actually, I admire your apparent interest in fuel effciency more than I admire those who seek pure, useless power (not that there's anything wrong with that). After all, any 250 HP can pull interstate... but only a few truly outstanding OEM powerplants throw the screws to OPEC, and the massaged 6.0 will have ample power to boot. In my book, when it comes to powerplant fuel economy, the turbo'd 5.9L Cummins and turbo'd 6.0L Ford naturally have the best shot because of their comparatively conservative displacement. Yet neither is a slouch in the power department either. The later multishot injectors are an efficiency improvement over earlier 7.3L engines too. Performance is an art. The 6.0 is a great canvas.

There are a lot of us that dream of this sort of custom adventure. You will be living it. I know it's probably more hobby than practical, but mastering a machine like this still beats climbing Mt Everest just because it is there. Every time you look at it... drive it... it will be like standing on the summit again.

Great project. Excellent plan IMHO. 🙂

Wes
...