Is there a Diesel or Gas break point?

[BeerBrewer]

I'm strongly considering upgrading to a 250/2500 or larger truck and I was wondering if there is break point where diesels just make more sense than gas. I know that as a rule diesels are better at pulling heavy loads than gas engines, but they also come with added maintenance costs. So I was wondering if there was a trailer weight where it just makes more sense to buy a diesel. If so, what is it?

We currently don't own a TT, but we've been looking. We first started looking for something my existing truck could pull but we discovered that its not a very robust tower, so we are in the market for a new truck. Since this would be our first TT we don't want to go too big, nothing longer than 29' and no heavier than 8500 lbs GVWR. Some have told us to buy the truck, then fit the trailer to the truck and others have said buy the Trailer and buy the truck to fit it. Its basically the old chicken and egg debate. So we're trying to both at the same time.

Lastly, I've noticed locally that diesel fuel is generally more expensive than regular gasoline, but I don't know if that's true around the country. Is it?

[donn0128]

jerem0621 wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Diesel costs more to maintain is an old wives tale. Modern diesels with the exception of fuel and oil are no more expensive to run than a gas motor. While diesels dont like idling around town on the highway they are a joy to drive. There are a few gas motors now that are rated to tow heavy, diesels are still way more capable of handling heavy loads.

This is only accounting for oil and filter changes.

Diesels have SUBSTANTIALLY higher maintenance costs including the following that you will have to address if you keep your truck long enough.

* Expensive injectors (routine wear item)Gas motor coils. Real common failure on Fords
* Expensive HPOP, Fuel Pumps, Lift Pumps etc. Only if your running a Ford or GM. Ram uses a different lift pump that rarely ever fails
* Expensive Batteries X2 Ill give you two vs one battery. Not a big deal once every five years or so
* Expensive particulate filters that will need to be replaced at some point. HUH? Air and fuel filter. Same as for your gas motor

If you only keep your truck 1 - 3 years and buy new you will not notice these added maintenance costs

But someone who keeps their truck for years will have to cross paths with these.

And, I consider all of these routine wear items on a diesel vehicle.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[troubledwaters]

agesilaus wrote:
The idea that diesels have higher maintenance costs is just a myth. I'd like to see someone demonstrate that it is true...

donn0128 wrote:
Diesel costs more to maintain is an old wives tale. Modern diesels with the exception of fuel and oil are no more expensive to run than a gas motor...

According to Vincentric it's not a myth or an old wives tale. Clicky

[jerem0621]

donn0128 wrote:
Diesel costs more to maintain is an old wives tale. Modern diesels with the exception of fuel and oil are no more expensive to run than a gas motor. While diesels dont like idling around town on the highway they are a joy to drive. There are a few gas motors now that are rated to tow heavy, diesels are still way more capable of handling heavy loads.

This is only accounting for oil and filter changes.

Diesels have SUBSTANTIALLY higher maintenance costs including the following that you will have to address if you keep your truck long enough.

* Expensive injectors (routine wear item)
* Expensive HPOP, Fuel Pumps, Lift Pumps etc.
* Expensive Batteries X2
* Expensive particulate filters that will need to be replaced at some point.

If you only keep your truck 1 - 3 years and buy new you will not notice these added maintenance costs

But someone who keeps their truck for years will have to cross paths with these.

And, I consider all of these routine wear items on a diesel vehicle.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Bedlam]

If you frequent elevations over 3000' and pull more than 10,000 lbs, you will be happier driving a diesel. A gas engine can do this, but it is more fatiguing for the driver. I really have not found a price point where you will come out financially ahead with diesel unless you plan to put many miles on it while towing. I look at buying a diesel as having the right tool for the job and not all jobs require one or are even suitable for their use.

[IdaD]

BeerBrewer wrote:
I'm strongly considering upgrading to a 250/2500 or larger truck and I was wondering if there is break point where diesels just make more sense than gas. I know that as a rule diesels are better at pulling heavy loads than gas engines, but they also come with added maintenance costs. So I was wondering if there was a trailer weight where it just makes more sense to buy a diesel. If so, what is it?

We currently don't own a TT, but we've been looking. We first started looking for something my existing truck could pull but we discovered that its not a very robust tower, so we are in the market for a new truck. Since this would be our first TT we don't want to go too big, nothing longer than 29' and no heavier than 8500 lbs GVWR. Some have told us to buy the truck, then fit the trailer to the truck and others have said buy the Trailer and buy the truck to fit it. Its basically the old chicken and egg debate. So we're trying to both at the same time.

Lastly, I've noticed locally that diesel fuel is generally more expensive than regular gasoline, but I don't know if that's true around the country. Is it?

The cost part is largely a wash. You'll pay more up front for the diesel and a bit more to maintain it, but you'll spend a bit less on fuel and will have a more valuable truck on resale. In the scheme of what you'll spend on either the cost difference isn't really material, imo - make your decision on other factors.

FWIW, diesels are better at pulling any load than gas, not just a heavy load. Diesels are also better at moving an 8000 lb truck around without a trailer.

[Super_Dave]

We bought our truck before buying our RV. I didn't want to fall in love with an RV that my new truck couldn't handle so we bought the biggest, strongest truck we could afford and went RV shopping with little to no limitations. Ram 3500, diesel, dually.

[2oldman]

BeerBrewer wrote:
.. diesel fuel is generally more expensive than regular gasoline, but I don't know if that's true around the country. Is it?

Except in summer.

[2edgesword]

I've read estimates of 100K miles in fuel savings to cover the extra cost of a diesel. As for towing in my opinion until you get above 10K lbs trailer gas is the way to go.

[Groover]

I used to pull over 8,000 lbs with an F250. The weight was divided between the largest slide in camper I could find and a 21' boat. It had the 460 engine with 230hp and a four speed transmission. While I might have enjoyed having more power the were very few times that I could not go as fast as I wanted to and I never regretted not buying a diesel. I think that any new engine/transmission combo would offer more more performance than that rig had.

Buy what you want and can afford but don't try to justify it. Just beware of making a lot of short trips with a diesel.

[camperdave]

I know here at work we are phasing out all our 3/4 ton diesels and replacing with gas for lifetime cost reasons. Our big crew trucks are still diesel (international). But smaller (mostly F250/350) trucks are going to gas starting a few years ago.

We're indiscriminate on brand, have Ford, Chevy, Dodge, International, Nissan, Toyota and Honda in the fleet right now, Based on cost at the time of need. But other than the big crew stuff, it's going to be all gas. These trucks get driven hard and put away wet, but don't get a ton of mileage.

I'm a computer guy not an actual worker so it's not in my area of interest, I just overhear anecdotally about the fleet stuff.

[lazydays]

I changed by Fuel Filter this weekend for $29. I can change my oil for $40. My wifes car cost more than that. If your trying to justify a purchase then you probably can't afford it. I only average 6500 miles a year on my diesel and probably could get by with a gasser but what's the fun in that. I've got a diesel because I can afford a diesel, no matter what it costs.

[Cummins12V98]

I change my oil once every 15k along with air filter and fuel filters. I am at about $250 running AMZ/OIL 15-40 Signature series along with OE filters.

[ppine]

The break point is when you pull off the lot and bring it home.
A diesel may cost a little more to buy. In some places diesel fuel cost more.
They perform better, get better mileage, outlast gas engines and maintain their value better. The cost of maintenance is very similar to a gas engine.

My 2002 Ford 7.3 is going up in value. That has never happened with a gas truck.

[ShinerBock]

I also wonder where the breaking point of a Hemi 5.7L is over a base 3.6L in the 1500s. Or the breaking point of a 6.4L over the 5.7L in the 2500s. Oh wait, these will never have a breaking point.

If you are looking for a breaking point to justify your purchase then I would not recommend getting a diesel. You get one for other reasons. Similar to the very same reasons one would upgrade to the engines stated above even though it though it will cost them thousands in the long run. Better performance, capabilities, and so on.

Asking a diesel owner if it is worth it is like asking a 392 V8 Challenger owner if the thousands in added costs in fuel was worth it over the V6 Challenger. They would probably look at you funny.

[ktmrfs]

there are probably dozens of ways to analyze economics if each. However I've never tried to justify the economics of my vehicle choices. I'd rather focus on higher priorities, which vehicles best fit what we want them for at a price we are willing to pay.

In my world, the Venn diagram of "economics" and "tow vehicles and trailers" doesn't have any overlap!