Is there a Diesel or Gas break point?

[BeerBrewer]

I'm strongly considering upgrading to a 250/2500 or larger truck and I was wondering if there is break point where diesels just make more sense than gas. I know that as a rule diesels are better at pulling heavy loads than gas engines, but they also come with added maintenance costs. So I was wondering if there was a trailer weight where it just makes more sense to buy a diesel. If so, what is it?

We currently don't own a TT, but we've been looking. We first started looking for something my existing truck could pull but we discovered that its not a very robust tower, so we are in the market for a new truck. Since this would be our first TT we don't want to go too big, nothing longer than 29' and no heavier than 8500 lbs GVWR. Some have told us to buy the truck, then fit the trailer to the truck and others have said buy the Trailer and buy the truck to fit it. Its basically the old chicken and egg debate. So we're trying to both at the same time.

Lastly, I've noticed locally that diesel fuel is generally more expensive than regular gasoline, but I don't know if that's true around the country. Is it?

[Hammerboy]

4x4ord wrote:
I think you'll die a little richer if you buy a gasoline truck instead of a diesel for trailers under 10k.

And you'll live a little longer if you buy a diesel for towing more than 10K due to less stress. :B

Dan

[time2roll]

ScottG wrote:
Did everyone get the point the OP made about this being a weight thing and not a monetary issue?

This part?

BeerBrewer wrote:
So the fact that a diesel contains more oil or needs some extra things done doesn't concern me at all. Unfortunately upfront costs due matter to us, but its "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"......

Not sure what the budget breaking point is. I have a tendency to go a little small if things are tight. Otherwise probably a used truck is best option.

[Durb]

There are a lot of comments regarding going up hills, not many about going down hills. The effectiveness and safety of a diesel exhaust brake is worth it to me towing any weight trailer. You won't have to worry about overheating your truck or trailer brakes, helps with the pucker factor.

My previous truck was a gasser, it was smooth, fast and quiet, my current diesel is noisy and slow. Can't say why, but I enjoy driving the diesel so much more, empty or towing.

[2oldman]

ScottG wrote:
Did everyone get the point the OP made about this being a weight thing and not a monetary issue?

No.

[ShinerBock]

I think what the OP is asking is a little objective. The "breaking point" will be all over the board depending the person. Then there is the factor of towing 40 mph up a hill may be fine to one, but not to another. Lastly you have those that are just completely biased to one over the other and have a blind hatred for the other that they will even flat out lie to make their favorite look better no matter what.

[ScottG]

Did everyone get the point the OP made about this being a weight thing and not a monetary issue?

[agesilaus]

As for fuel I did a rough calculation for a Full Timer doing 20,000 miles/year towing heavy. At 6 mpg with a gas engine that comes out to around $7700/year at $2.30 a gallon. For a diesel the numbers are $4600/year at 11 mpg and $2.99/gal which are the current fuel prices here. So about $3000 a year in fuel savings subtract $300 or so in extra DEF and oil change costs and you'll make up that $6000 price difference between the engines in 2 1/2 years.

[4x4ord]

I think you'll die a little richer if you buy a gasoline truck instead of a diesel for trailers under 10k. My rule would be; buy a 1/2 with a gasoline engine for trailers under 8500 lbs. If you are even thinking of going to a fifth wheel or large TT I'd buy a SRW 1 ton diesel. Not to save money but for the added enjoyment of towing. Personally, I would not purchase a 3/4 ton for any purpose.

[dodge_guy]

Trailer in my sig is what I’m towing with my V-10. Never once have I wished for a diesel and I’ve been through the Rockies and Appalachians. Trailer is 35ft and 9300lbs loaded for a trip and the V-10 averages 7.5mpg towing.

I would by the trailer first then get the truck.

[DutchmenSport]

Long story short: 10,000 pounds is the breaking point between 2500-250 and 3500-350. Dualy's for better stability. Diesel for stronger towing. When you get 15,000, be thinking dualy.

If towing is your primary concern, then get diesel. If daily driver is your primary concern, then get gas.

As for me and my house (on wheel)... it's a 3500 dualy diesel. I can tow anything anywhere and never have to worry about it or second guess if everything is going to be OK.

Having a STRONG towing vehicle under any conditions is more important than the daily driver or the cost effectiveness any time. Otherwise, I'd get rid of the trailer. If you have a trailer, towing safe, comfortable, and with confidence under any condition should supersede everything else. You have too much money on the line towing a travel trailer for things to go "kaput!"

[ScottG]

Now that the OP has clarified what he meant by "Break point", I would say it is at about 8000# and certainly by 10K#. Between those points all trucks start working pretty hard and if any hills are involved I would bias that number toward the downward number.
Yes, a gas eng can tow what ever but as things get heavier like I described, the diesel works better.

My trailer weighs in at 9300# loaded and full of water. We often tow over the mountains. I would not even consider having anything but a diesel.

[carringb]

I tow 13,000 pounds with my V10, pretty much full time as it's really a dedicated tow rig at this point. I tow up to 18,000 on occasion, and that's about the max I'd pull in the mountains. I don't think I could hold the speed limit, going any heavier.

To tow well, I did have to upgrade the intake and exhaust, and re-geared it. The lower gears made the biggest difference, but of course carry fuel penalty when not towing. But it improved towing fuel economy, so for me, it works.

I'll probably keep towing with it too, because it can limp home with fairly significant damage. Lose a radiator in a new diesel, and you won't make it far. I've had plenty of diesel work trucks, and having seen the repair bills when they get out of warranty, I have zero desire to own one.

[ktmrfs]

jerem0621 wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Diesel costs more to maintain is an old wives tale. Modern diesels with the exception of fuel and oil are no more expensive to run than a gas motor. While diesels dont like idling around town on the highway they are a joy to drive. There are a few gas motors now that are rated to tow heavy, diesels are still way more capable of handling heavy loads.

This is only accounting for oil and filter changes.

Diesels have SUBSTANTIALLY higher maintenance costs including the following that you will have to address if you keep your truck long enough.

* Expensive injectors (routine wear item)
* Expensive HPOP, Fuel Pumps, Lift Pumps etc.
* Expensive Batteries X2
* Expensive particulate filters that will need to be replaced at some point.

If you only keep your truck 1 - 3 years and buy new you will not notice these added maintenance costs

But someone who keeps their truck for years will have to cross paths with these.

And, I consider all of these routine wear items on a diesel vehicle.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

my 04 duramax is at 192K miles. well past 1-3 years!!!!
injector- nope, all balance rates are well within spec's
haven't had any fuel pump issues
yup, two batteries instead of one. It's on it's second set of batteries, a whole extra $75 from a gasser, WOW broke the bank!
maintenance so far- factory recomended stuff for filters, oil, lube etc.
repairs to date- Zip, Zero, Nada......

Oh, and I'm not on my second set of spark plugs a gasser would be on. That offsets the spendy extra battery.

Neighbor has a ford scorpion diesel with 200K, still no issues with the DPF.

yes, my new denali does use DEF, a whole $10 every 5K miles. more than offsets any difference in fuel costs.

My 2015.5 Denali is only at 45K miles. time will tell

the difference in overall maintenance costs gas vs. diesel IMHO is well into the noise compared to fuel costs, insurance, depreciation, etc. etc. and well down the priority list on the decision process.

decide which best fits YOU specific needs, then pick the brand/size of truck that YOU like the best. IMHO today the big 3 are all extremely capable and decision is more personal preference of what you like than brand.

[2oldman]

Tow vehicle Diesel maintenance 2014


Tow vehicle Cost per mile -diesel worth it? 2014
diesel v gas - Dec 2014

[time2roll]

BeerBrewer wrote:
What I meant by a break point, is there a point where a gas 3/4 or 1 ton truck struggles to handle a load. I'd hate to buy a new truck and find myself going up a steep grade only able to do 20 or 30 MPH. We absolutely plan upon touring out west, through higher elevations, even hitting Alaska.

You see I'm trying to avoid repeating some issues that I've had towing a trailer in the past. About 15 years ago, due to my job, we moved from Arizona to Long Island, NY. We thought it would be fun and it was a blast, to drive across the country rather than fly. We had most of our stuff moved by a mover, but we moved our vehicles (Mini-Van and Durango) and some of our "precious" stuff ourselves. So we rented the largest U-Haul trailer we could find and pulled it with our Durango, (318 V8) which was equipped to tow. After we loaded it we had the trailer weighed and we were well within the specs, but we did need to shift the load around a tad. My wife drove the Mini-Van and drove the Durango. For the most part the Durango did fine, except for the climb up to Flagstaff and on the "switch-back" on Rte 40 headed east out of Tennessee. When doing the climb up to Flagstaff I had trouble maintaining speed, I think I was only doing like 20 or 30 mph. The engine temp was climbing real high, so high that I had the heat blasting and it was summer. I had the opposite problem When we hit the "switch-back" coming out of Tennessee, I had trouble keeping my speed down and I white knuckled it all the way down. I'd rather not relive either experience if possible. Even though we had a few "issues" we had a blast. Frankly, it was this trip that spawned the idea of us getting an TT and touring the country "some day". Not only did we see some amazing sites, we also met some equally amazing people. Well "some day" has arrived!

I currently do most of the maintenance on my vehicles now and plan on doing so in the future. So the fact that a diesel contains more oil or needs some extra things done doesn't concern me at all. Unfortunately upfront costs due matter to us, but its "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"......

OK my old gasser gets down to 25 pulling max load for about 10 minutes climbing a steep hill especially at elevation. Not a big deal to me. NEVER an overheat issue. I have been at full throttle in low gear in 115 heat and the A/C on max-high without issue. I think your durango was a bit of a dog and anything near new will perform just fine right up to the max rating. Since you mentioned money is an issue I would suggest it will be OK to select a gasser and accept the limitations. Sure the diesel may pull better and not rev up so much etc.... and at what cost?