K&N Air Filter?

[Jayco23FB]

I am thinking of getting a K&N cold air kit for my 2007 Chev 2500HD 6.0L gas. I would like to here from those that have used them or any issues with these filters. Thanks

[BurbMan]

I'm still confused as to why these are referred to as "Cold Air Intakes". We all know that cold air is denser and provides a better combustion charge so it's advantageous to use cooler intake air.

When GM designed the stock intake box on my '01 they ducted it to the fenderwell. It is designed by the factory to draw cooler air from the outside, not hot air from the engine compartment.

If I replace my stock airbox with this:



I am now drawing hot air from under the hood and not cool air from outside, so whatever flow increase I see is going to offset by higher intake temps. These should be called Hot air intakes.

If I am used car shopping and see a K&N filter installed it's a deal breaker. No telling what other fugazy mods and abuse the vehicle has suffered.

Race cars use K&N filters. race cars also put 100% nitrogen in their tires to keep pressure more stable as heat builds. Neither offer any real world benefits for your average truck or car.

[BenK]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:
snip...

I have a 99 Tahoe which is probably the same as whatever your GMT 400 is.....as far as intake.

Not sure what the "max airflow" is, but I monitor the intake air temps live and found that after any heat soak from sitting at a stop, when moving for more than a few miles, the intake air temp OEM is within 1-3 degrees of ambient. For that reason I never modded the air intake.....but I did take a good look at it. If you look under the passenger headlight there is a scoop that directs air under the battery to the fender/airbox via a duct.
I ended up with OEM airbox with k&n.

Yes, that is what am after with my design...keeping it cool in city
driving where I need/want full power mode

Once it gets above a preset temp, no more power mode allowed by the ECU

Likewise want a bit of ram air if it's available

[NinerBikes]

I need to get a K&N for my RC airplane, so that it makes more power at full throttle at take off.

Saturday I did floor my 2013 VW Touareg TDI in 3rd gear, and did get a reading of 23.4 pounds of boost from the turbocharger. There's plenty of airflow there stock, it's the fuel mapping portion that's the limit.

0-60mph in a 5000 # SUV that's AWD in 6.9 seconds, and diesel, is far more from the factory than I need. The 406 foot lbs of torque at 1700rpm is what I am after towing a 21 foot travel trailer. I could give a rat's azz about the 240HP peak it makes, I never drive a diesel anywhere near that rpm... I probably at most flow 10 -12 gallons an hour, ever, making 125-140 HP instead at around 2000 rpms while trailering. Yet my air filter flows effectively to 4750 rpm, somewhere I never even go.

0-60 6.9 seconds VW Touareg TDI 3.0L

K&N tries to sell you potential HP. 99.999% of us never reach that potential. Red on a dash means don't go there, stop doing what you're doing. So redline means don't go there. Having an air filter that makes you more power at redline, an area you have manufacturers telling you to not go there, makes a whole lot of sense, now doesn't it?


Sorry to all the 6.7 diesel trucker fans out here that my numbers looks so small, it's only a 3 liter V6, in theory, if you could contain it, you can double them for a 6.0 liter V-12 like the one that goes in an Audi Q7, err.. I mean an Audi R15.

Audi 6.0 V12

[Dave_H_M]

:W Hold one up tot he light to take a peek. If you can see through it all is well. :B

[dodge_guy]

The reason the manufacturers don`t use an open cold air intake is due to drive by standards (decibles). the OEM restrictive intake is good for what the manuf wants. quiet low cost air intake with cheap drop in filters for the owner that doesn`t know how to open a hood (yes I know that`s a oxymoron). but that is the reason they don`t offer a cleanable type filter, it would never get cleaned so they make it idiot proof. same with the factory PCM tune, it is designed for the idiot that doesn`t know a thing about a car other than where to put the key! then you have the people that are into cars and know how they operate and take care of them on a regular basis.

there is nothing wrong with a K&N if you take care of it!

[marcsbigfoot20b]

BenK wrote:
There is a balance between after market engineering and OEM engineering

Of course OEM has hundreds of millions $ spent on R&D per vehicle
platform vs the small percentage R&D any after market can spend. This is
PER YEAR

I've looked at several after market cold air systems and noted that
all of the ones I've checked out has engine bay air ingested.

On that, the colder the intake air delivered into the CC will allow
more advance vs higher temp intake air because colder air has a lower
pre-ignition potential. Hence many 'think' it increases the octane, which
is incorrect. Octane is a rating or measure of the 'gasoline' potential
ignition characteristics

Since it will have a better ignition characteristic than heated air,
the computer will allow more advance up to a preset point (either or
both mechanical or software)

I've kept the OEM intake system from the filter to the engine...but...
have modified it for cold, ram air. The OEM system on my GMT400 also
has a cold air system, but it does gain a bit of heat via the engine
bay fender sheetmetal in contact with heated engine bay air flow

OEM has two filters. Standard and HD. I use the HD and it is about 2"
larger in dia...therefore more filtration area...therefore lower PSI
drop. This image is of both and from NAPA


I also change air filters around 20K miles or 2 years, whichever comes
first



Designed my ram, cold air intake system to be complimentary to the OEM
intake system and have better performance than OEM. Write-up HOW2
in below link with pictures
My cold, ram air system


Discovered that the OEM filter box is double insulated both for noise
control and thermal insulation from the heated engine bay air

OEM has the filter box ingest through the passenger side void between
the outsider fender and the engine bay liner. That then has an opening
in front of the radiator wall just behind the head lamp assembly

The inner fender sheetmetal is filled with holes and one large hole
for the antenna cable.

Kept that system and duct taped over all of the holes



Then cut a hole in the bottom of the filter box and wheel well sheetmetal






Scoop just under the bumper. First was part of the drainage hose
components, but lost that in a fender bender. This is the new one
and is a home heating vent made of sheetmetal


With the scoop....my design has more PSI than the OEM, which I left
intact just in case have to ford a stream or some sort of water, as
find bugs, small rocks, sand, etc in the bottom of the filter box
that was never there before with just the OEM setup

Cleaned up the bugs, rocks and sand...then decided to take this pic
to show that water mist has also been scooped up. Note the water mark
and the new ram, cold air hose poking up through the bottom of the
filter box. Also note the OEM hole on top and that goes into a complimentary
hole in the fender void area

I have a 99 Tahoe which is probably the same as whatever your GMT 400 is.....as far as intake.

Not sure what the "max airflow" is, but I monitor the intake air temps live and found that after any heat soak from sitting at a stop, when moving for more than a few miles, the intake air temp OEM is within 1-3 degrees of ambient. For that reason I never modded the air intake.....but I did take a good look at it. If you look under the passenger headlight there is a scoop that directs air under the battery to the fender/airbox via a duct.
I ended up with OEM airbox with k&n.

[BenK]

Forgot to mention that I've helped a few Suburban forum members make this same

odification. All 5.7L

One guy has a K&N and has gone back to OEM. He was constantly getting oil on his
MAF grid

K&N has a drop in filter for the OEM filter box

Several others copied the philosophy of design and converted their
GMT800 and GMT900 small blocks. One GMT800 is a 8.1L

[BenK]

There is a balance between after market engineering and OEM engineering

Of course OEM has hundreds of millions $ spent on R&D per vehicle
platform vs the small percentage R&D any after market can spend. This is
PER YEAR

I've looked at several after market cold air systems and noted that
all of the ones I've checked out has engine bay air ingested.

On that, the colder the intake air delivered into the CC will allow
more advance vs higher temp intake air because colder air has a lower
pre-ignition potential. Hence many 'think' it increases the octane, which
is incorrect. Octane is a rating or measure of the 'gasoline' potential
ignition characteristics

Since it will have a better ignition characteristic than heated air,
the computer will allow more advance up to a preset point (either or
both mechanical or software)

I've kept the OEM intake system from the filter to the engine...but...
have modified it for cold, ram air. The OEM system on my GMT400 also
has a cold air system, but it does gain a bit of heat via the engine
bay fender sheetmetal in contact with heated engine bay air flow

OEM has two filters. Standard and HD. I use the HD and it is about 2"
larger in dia...therefore more filtration area...therefore lower PSI
drop. This image is of both and from NAPA


I also change air filters around 20K miles or 2 years, whichever comes
first



Designed my ram, cold air intake system to be complimentary to the OEM
intake system and have better performance than OEM. Write-up HOW2
in below link with pictures
My cold, ram air system


Discovered that the OEM filter box is double insulated both for noise
control and thermal insulation from the heated engine bay air

OEM has the filter box ingest through the passenger side void between
the outsider fender and the engine bay liner. That then has an opening
in front of the radiator wall just behind the head lamp assembly

The inner fender sheetmetal is filled with holes and one large hole
for the antenna cable.

Kept that system and duct taped over all of the holes



Then cut a hole in the bottom of the filter box and wheel well sheetmetal






Scoop just under the bumper. First was part of the drainage hose
components, but lost that in a fender bender. This is the new one
and is a home heating vent made of sheetmetal


With the scoop....my design has more PSI than the OEM, which I left
intact just in case have to ford a stream or some sort of water, as
find bugs, small rocks, sand, etc in the bottom of the filter box
that was never there before with just the OEM setup

Cleaned up the bugs, rocks and sand...then decided to take this pic
to show that water mist has also been scooped up. Note the water mark
and the new ram, cold air hose poking up through the bottom of the
filter box. Also note the OEM hole on top and that goes into a complimentary
hole in the fender void area

[marcsbigfoot20b]

jfkmk wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

This works due to the timing/temp tune table in the PCM. The colder the air the more timing you can get, which gets you more torque for less throttle.

Do you even know what timing is? You can't "get more timing". Timing refers to when the spark plug fires in relationship to top dead center of the piston. You can advance the timing (make the plug fire sooner) or retard the timing (make it fire later) but there is no way on this planet to "get more timing".

Are you kidding me????

I have been a master ASE tech since 1990....... That is almost a quarter century. If you don't know what more or less timing refers to, please STFU. I have no time for ignorant people like you.

I do my own tuning with EFI live (you probably have no idea what I'm talking about) so tell me how you are qualified. Are you a dentist?

[Sport45]

He could run with no air cleaner at all and not see a bit of difference until he was at wide open throttle.

How much are folks willing to spend (or risk) in the quest for better performance 0.5% of the time? When you're just tooling along down the highway the air intake system has absolutely no effect on performance or mileage.

[NinerBikes]

In summary, K&N has been proven by 3rd party laboratory testing, with no payment or bribe money involved for "results", to pass more dirt, and not deliver enough benefits to cost/price/service time/oil contamination of your Mass Air Flow Sensor, as to be a liability instead of an asset.

You're being sold a placebo and a bill of goods that don't deliver. I won't tell you how to spend or save your money. Most OEM filter makers make filters for all kinds of applications andmediums/water/fluids/air.

K&N sells filters for nothing but boy toys with a motor on them. In terms of units sold, they are mouse nuts, and non existent in the OEM industry. There is a reason for that, probably has to do with the engineers that designed and built your motor knowing more about it's filtering needs than it's owner, that being you. Most of us consult an attorney when we need expertise in law, and accountant with our taxes, a doctor when we don't feel well. Consult the engineer that designed your motor before making filtering changes, if you want expert advice. Otherwise, leave it alone.

[NinerBikes]

Fast0ne wrote:

NinerBikes wrote:

Fast0ne wrote:

NinerBikes wrote:
I want an air filter to filter the dirt and cr*p out of my air, not let it breathe on in all filthy and through my motor. If any of these K&N filters made more power, K&N would be showing dyno runs, side by side, stock and K&N, in their advertisement, to prove their point.

They can't, and they don't... there's your sign. Anything turbocharged and diesel sucks more air with a stock air filter, that an aftermarket unit is a non issue. Motor manufacturers know what's good for their motors, and what makes a motor last... false promises of more power don't do any motor any good.

Well I now I know you don't know how to use the internet. If you go to k&n website they show dyno runs with before and after runs.

Motor manufactures build there motors to live a long boring life.


That's why they make neat things like power programmers,HP Tuners that's a computer tuning program that retunes the factory computer. They make headers,cat back exhaust systems,and air intakes.

As it has been proven a million times over a added air intake will not cause motor issues it will not void any warranty.

I know all these smart folks here that hate intakes do not understand that a motor is a big ass air pump. So adding a exhaust and a air intake will make more power because more air in more air out. (Ok still with me)

Now why do they say to disconnect the battery. This is so the computer can reset it self and began to learn the new added air to tell the vehicle that there is more air entering the motor.people that do not do this step will notice no gain for a long time or will end up with check engine light or hard starting.

And as I mentioned before. AEM was bought out by K&N.

I know you don't know that I worked for Brush Research Manufacturing at one point in time. That I've seen more bores wrecked by dirt in a couple of years working there than you'll ever see in a life time. That Brush Research designed and manufactures The Flex Hone. So what's your point. Not being an engineer, you've no idea what the design and the intent is of engineers that design, test and build motors. Nor do you, or K&N warranty motors. I am quite happy with boring stock performance, because I know that Germans engineer everything power/drivetrain wise, into an integrated package, and the moment you make modifications, you cause failure in the next weakest link in the drive train.

Modifications are for kids, and boys that never grow up. I'm past the d*ck dragging contest / stage in my life. I buy a vehicle, new, that will do what I need it to do, from the factory, or I find something that will do what I need. I don't create unnecessary needs. I figure OEM manufacturers of filters like Mann, Mahle, know how to make filter that actually do filter. I figure that when a 3rd party like Arlen Spicer, who has no skin in the game, hires an independent 3rd party lab, that has no money in the outcome of the tests, posts up the results, that I am getting an unbiased results from the testing. I don't need a decal advertising what brand of air filter I am running, and I don't need a sponsor either for air filters. The paper ones in my TDI's are good for 60k Miles, with no waste of time cleaning or tampering with. They do the job. My time is worth more not having to clean a dirty air filter and re oil. Order a 60K service kit, boxes arrive at my door, free UPS shipping, flip open a Fumoto valve, R&R an oil filter and O rings, and clean out an airbox and install a new air filter, add oil filter, close fumoto valve and add new oil.

Worried about land fill from your old air filter? Burn it. It's paper.

Do you want a gold star for where you used to work. (Here you go)

All you have done is prove that you are old fart that really knows nothing about the modern world of how automobiles work and the performance that can be had from them.

You know nothing of me and what degrees I have and how many motors I have torn down and rebuild. Everything from auto to boat motors to heavy-duty diesel motors for cat and other companies.

And let me share that any motor I have torn down had no affects fro the use of a k&n oiled filter. And I guess you like to kill the environment because burning your paper filter also contains the rubber that surrounds the paper filter. Guess you still pour old gas and oil in your back yard to further kill things. (Thanks so much)

K&N filters can be recycled (not that you know what that is) and will last a lot longer and keep more filters out of land fills. (Or in your case burning a filter and contaminating the environment )

So you just enjoy your bone stock vehicle and stay out of a discussion where people may want to give there vehicle some extra power.

You're talking about contaminating the environment burning a filter, when you want to allow for more air and more fuel being burned in a pump engine in a shorter period of time, more CO and Nox in our atmosphere, so you can go a little bit faster, and waste more oil doing what? Pushing air out of the way faster with a big heaping 5th wheel or travel trailer behind you? Dumb and dumber... your justification for more power. Look at your carbon foot print. Versus burning a little bit of paper, with the rubber seal recycled. Hypocrite. Your logic is flawed.

I'm retired, I got no deadlines, nowhere I have to go or be at a certain time. Certainly not trying to "make time" on public roads. You want to get there on time, leave sooner. Or fly, instead of drive.

[jfkmk]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

This works due to the timing/temp tune table in the PCM. The colder the air the more timing you can get, which gets you more torque for less throttle.

Do you even know what timing is? You can't "get more timing". Timing refers to when the spark plug fires in relationship to top dead center of the piston. You can advance the timing (make the plug fire sooner) or retard the timing (make it fire later) but there is no way on this planet to "get more timing".

[jfkmk]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

The only way to gain mileage is to get colder air than the oem intake air.
So if you buy a cold air intake (comes with filter) and you are drawng in cooler air than stock due to poor oem intake design, then your mileage and power may see a slight increase.

Do you really think that vehicle manufacturers can engineer incredibly complex engines, transmissions, etc but can't master the lowly air intake?

[Fast0ne]

Hannibal wrote:

Fast0ne wrote:

You know nothing of me and what degrees I have and how many motors I have torn down and rebuild. Everything from auto to boat motors to heavy-duty diesel motors for cat and Cummings.

And let me share that any motor I have torn down had no affects fro the use of a k&n oiled filter. And I guess you like to kill the environment because burning your paper filter also contains the rubber that surrounds the paper filter. Guess you still pour old gas and oil in your back yard to further kill things. (Thanks so much)

K&N filters can be recycled (not that you know what that is) and will last a lot longer and keep more filters out of land fills. (Or in your case burning a filter and contaminating the environment )

So you just enjoy your bone stock vehicle and stay out of a discussion where people may want to give there vehicle some extra power.

Cummings? I drive a Prius and use OEM style paper filters. Here I thought I was saving the planet and come to find out I'm the destroyer of all earthly things. What a conundrum I am!:S

You defiantly are in a conundrum if you believe Hannibal