Keystone - never again

[RBPerry]

New 2017 Keystone trailer, on trip of 600 miles. Cabinet door hinges falling off, dealer never flushed antifreeze from system, Water heater won't work on propane, water pump wouldn't work was sucking air. Dealer adjust electric brake controller wrong, repaired myself. Door to bedroom opens the wrong way and hits bed blocking access to bedroom.

But the WORST thing is tires are not rated for gvw of the trailer, they over 1000 pounds under, and they are junk tires. Dealer said I needed to get authorization from Keystone to replace, Keystone said I needed to go to dealer.

I'm a retired truck technician, so I took it down to my local CHP office and the DOT guy says, ya, tires aren't right, I tell him to give me a ticket for it. Now dealer tells me it will be a couple months before they can get everything done, ticket says I need it corrected in two weeks, that is unacceptable, next step is a lawyer to see if I can get dealer to take this thing back.

I ended up fixing the water pump myself. I have never seen such terrible workmanship in anything.

[DutchmenSport]

myredracer wrote:
...
From what I've seen and heard, I'd never buy a Keystone TT. ... Problem is, just about all brands can have quality/design issues ...

That's really too bad. My Keystone Outback has been a very good trailer. It is built with real wood cabinets, solid wood (hallow) doors, real household hinges. The bathroom door is hinged on a medium quality hinge (I'd not use one in my house ... doors are too heavy, but the camper door is hallow, still make of wood ... not particle board covered with simulated wood wall paper. All appliances have been great, no squeeks, no squalks, no leaks, tows very nice, brakes works wonderful with my integrated brake controller in my Chevy dualy. Frame seems to be nice and stout. Pretty much, everything appears to be a decent quality and decent workmanship. OK, I had one minor problem when first purchased that was fixed. Maybe it's not from the el-cheap-o line. Even Keystone advertises on their web site they have 3 different levels of campers. You do get what you pay for! Lemons? yes, they slip through the cracks. I'm just saying my Keystone Outback has been a VERY good camper. We live in it almost full time now. Like I said in another post, we have this house so we can park our camper and live in it. Love the house, but love the camper more!

[myredracer]

Friends of ours own a fairly new Keystone TT and last year I spent a full day repairing the dinette seating that was falling apart and fixing up cabinet latches and roller slides all as a result of bad factory workmanship. First photo is a catch on a closet door - the two parts were over an inch apart! 2nd pic shows a damage roller part due to factory misalignment. 3rd pic is how the dealer attempted to fix one of the roller catches by just jamming in another screw. Almost all roller catches were improperly installed. I had to remove the slides for a couple of drawers and re-align them. Worst cabinetry work I've seen in a TT.

Went to a local RV show and a Keystone TT on display had similar cabinet issues to the above. Two upper cabinet doors wouldn't even close. Dealer made no attempt to correct the issues for the show.

Met a couple at a CG who had a Keystone TT they bought new. The roof had a bad leak. Three trips to the dealer did not fix it. Then it got sent to the factory and they only made it worse. The couple was from near where we live and the dealer was likely the same one as our friends.

Saw a Keystone TT on display at a CW. Same issue with the axles and tires - loaded up to pretty much the weight sitting on the axles. Tires could even be overloaded on one side due to wt. of the slide. It also had spread axles as well which would increase tire wear due to different turning radii in turns. Add cheap tires to the mix and it's asking for a tire blowout.

From what I've seen and heard, I'd never buy a Keystone TT. Everything is built to the minimum of minimum possible and then they add poor workmanship on top of that. It would appear tho. that there is a difference in build quality between the eastern and western plants in the US. Problem is, just about all brands can have quality/design issues and few are worth recommending. Have had enough serious things to deal with on our current TT.

[DarthMuffin]

lbrjet wrote:
If he was right it would be nice to see the stickers and tell us the outcome with Keystone and if he was wrong it would be nice to come back and admit it and chalk it up to a learning experience. Bolting from the thread is not nice.

If he did lawyer up, I would imagine the lawyer told him not to talk about it further until it was settled.

Even if they did settle, Keystone may have put a condition that he not speak of it. That's pretty common.

[travelnman]

Typical story. I have been looking at a 15 suburban and almost
did the unthinkable and bought one for insane price until I read a internet customer tell his story like yours. That was enough for me but I have a 08 Springdale, has been very good RV. Hail caused some damage and the awning went down also. Biggest problem was getting a new awning rod. First truck load was hijacked no one knows where it went along with hundreds of washers and dryers, next two rods went to wrong address and because of the neighborhood no one will go back, next one got run over by a employee and bent it like the
original, finally I got one that worked not great but its OK. I have listened to some dealers complain about the manufacturers, they don't seem to get along. I had a toilet seat come unhinged so I thought this would be a easy fix, not so dealer said I can get you a whole new toilet but not a seat. I ended up going to a hardware store and for 18 bucks got a new seat perfect match and size. You can not believe what a busted toilet seat can do for your camping experience. Buy a older RV next time their made better and look better. These new dark colors and absence of windows make for depressing interiors. Cars are a fraction of the size we had in the sixties, with tiny wash machine motors, and plastic every thing. The joke is they want five times the sixties price. RVs manufacturers are struggling with holding down costs the same way its dog eat dog out there. If you get a good RV keep it. I have a 04 suburban that is excellent I guess I will be buried in it rather than trade for new.

[hohenwald48]

mike-s wrote:

hohenwald48 wrote:
I've not seen anything where the OP says there is no label so I fail to see the relevance of your post. And tires and axles rated for less than GVWR is not that rare. But what do I know, you're the lawyer here. 🙂

Your ignorance is not my problem, nor is your inability to read the college level English in which the regulations are written. He said the tires and axle were rated for less than the dry weight of his 2010 Wolf Pup. They have a 3500 lb GAWR (3822 GVWR), and a dry weight of under 3000 lbs, which would put such an axle/tire combo in violation of FMVSS regulations, regardless of any labels. It's the GVWR you keep bringing up which is irrelevant.

And it's was the GP. The OP has a Keystone.

Hey, you're the one who posted all the label pictures and legal quotes. I think you might need a chill pill. 🙂

[mike-s]

hohenwald48 wrote:
I've not seen anything where the OP says there is no label so I fail to see the relevance of your post. And tires and axles rated for less than GVWR is not that rare. But what do I know, you're the lawyer here. 🙂

Your ignorance is not my problem, nor is your inability to read the college level English in which the regulations are written. He said the tires and axle were rated for less than the dry weight of his 2010 Wolf Pup. They have a 3500 lb GAWR (3822 GVWR), and a dry weight of under 3000 lbs, which would put such an axle/tire combo in violation of FMVSS regulations, regardless of any labels. It's the GVWR you keep bringing up which is irrelevant.

And it's was the GP. The OP has a Keystone.

[hohenwald48]

mike-s wrote:

hohenwald48 wrote:

mike-s wrote:
I hope you notified the NHTSA, since that trailer was illegally sold - it didn't meet FMVSS regulations. Forest River should have been forced to do a recall.

Interesting that you can determine, from the sketchy info provided, that a large multi-million dollar RV manufacturer did not meet their obligations under federal law. Somehow I suspect they and their battery of lawyers and engineers may know a little more about ratings and label requirements than you do. But I could be wrong.

You are wrong. I made my statement on the basis of the GP's claim being true. You, OTOH, have only insults without facts in your argument. I'll stick to rational argument. The labeling requirements are clearly spelled out in FMVSS regulations, particularly 49 CFR 571.110.

I've not seen anything where the OP says there is no label so I fail to see the relevance of your post. And tires and axles rated for less than GVWR is not that rare. But what do I know, you're the lawyer here. 🙂

[WildPlumYonder]

Never mind - not worth rehashing, it just makes me furious with Forest River all over again.

[lbrjet]

If he was right it would be nice to see the stickers and tell us the outcome with Keystone and if he was wrong it would be nice to come back and admit it and chalk it up to a learning experience. Bolting from the thread is not nice.

[mike-s]

hohenwald48 wrote:

mike-s wrote:
I hope you notified the NHTSA, since that trailer was illegally sold - it didn't meet FMVSS regulations. Forest River should have been forced to do a recall.

Interesting that you can determine, from the sketchy info provided, that a large multi-million dollar RV manufacturer did not meet their obligations under federal law. Somehow I suspect they and their battery of lawyers and engineers may know a little more about ratings and label requirements than you do. But I could be wrong.

You are wrong. I made my statement on the basis of the GP's claim being true. You, OTOH, have only insults without facts in your argument. I'll stick to rational argument. The labeling requirements are clearly spelled out in FMVSS regulations, particularly 49 CFR 571.110.

[93Cobra2771]

My current trailer has a 10000gvwr and two 4400# axles. Manufacturers allow for tongue weight when specing axles. I don't neccessarily agree with it, but it's the way it is on most of them.

My previous trailer had a 10000#gvwr and two 5300# axles. Different brand and 8 years older.

[hohenwald48]

mike-s wrote:
I hope you notified the NHTSA, since that trailer was illegally sold - it didn't meet FMVSS regulations. Forest River should have been forced to do a recall.

Interesting that you can determine, from the sketchy info provided, that a large multi-million dollar RV manufacturer did not meet their obligations under federal law. Somehow I suspect they and their battery of lawyers and engineers may know a little more about ratings and label requirements than you do. But I could be wrong.

[hohenwald48]

WildPlumYonder wrote:
I had a single-axle 2010 Cherokee Wolf Pup which came from the factory with an axle rating BELOW the dry weight of the trailer and with 13" tires that had a load rating below the dry weight as well. It was my first trailer and I didn't know enough to check that.

Trailers frequently have axle and tire weight ratings below the GVWR of the trailer. The tires and axles are only required the carry the trailer weight and NOT the tongue weight.

[rbpru]

My point was the TT manufacturer is responsible for axels and tires that meet the TT gross weight rating, though one can question the anticipated tongue weight; they have no idea how where you are going to place your cargo load.

For instance, hanging a motorcycle on the back bumper is the owners problem.