Magic towing dust

[pitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqzQu6pMFhQ

[kmbelt]

that was a waste of 20 minutes of my valuable time. Blah, blah, blah, we do what we want and make up numbers however we like.

[jerem0621]

Bingo!!!!

One of the biggest arguments I hear is that if you cause an accident and are overloaded you have so much liability and negligence on you because you were 200 lbs overloaded.

I have always maintained the fallacy of this stance... If you cause an accident you are already liable. The tool capable of the job coupled with a competent operator is the safest way to operate. An oversized vehicle doesn't make the operator safer. You can be under all ratings and be a hazard on the road. (yes I am talking about the guy who was pulling his fiver and decided it was awesome to tailgate me at 72 mph, and then blew my doors off passing me) you can also be over your ratings and operate sensibly and be perfectly fine and safe. (I.e. The Tundra pulling a fiver at 55 mph in the slow lane allowing pleanty of room around him).

My personal experience tells me this is true, I have had a half ton and a crew cab Dually and pulled the same trailer. The Half ton out handled the Dually big time. The Dually was awesome at hauling a load but didn't handle worth a darn.

The F150 stopped faster (towing or not!, handled better, and was a positive towing experience once everything was set up properly.

The Dually pulled harder with its V10 and 3.73 gear where the F150 was just adaquate, but nearly every other aspect of the experience (towing and not) gave me a preference for the old "grocery getter" F150.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[DSteiner51]

In part 2, Toyota guy reaffirms the driver makes a difference. Interesting, Toyota is only one to meet J2807 spec and it is Toyota keeps saying the driver has a lot to do with towing ability. I like him! The weight police keep telling us how precise these trucks are engineered and how if overloaded by 100lbs etc they become extremely dangerous when it is the driver behind the wheel.

[rhagfo]

Dog Folks wrote:
Clicky

don't miss part two!
Part two

[DSteiner51]

jerem0621 wrote:
So basically this video series insinuates that the ratings do not matter.... Unless you are a novice and have no clue about towing and loading .. Then follow the numbers to a T.

The Toyota engineer pretty much said that the guy who overloads but tows everyday is probably ok vs the weekend warrior (newb).... Who has basically little to no experience towing.

Thanks,

You got it strait from the horse's mouth. I've been saying all along the driver had lots to do with it.

[jerem0621]

So basically this video series insinuates that the ratings do not matter.... Unless you are a novice and have no clue about towing and loading .. Then follow the numbers to a T.

The Toyota engineer pretty much said that the guy who overloads but tows everyday is probably ok vs the weekend warrior (newb).... Who has basically little to no experience towing.

Thanks,

[DSteiner51]

blt2ski wrote:
They probably put it under lock and key, because it was not as good as it was hyped to be! Yeah it was a spec, that one can compare rigs of different types, shapes and forms........

BUT, it still did not take into account how we all use our trucks. IE the one that lives in the flatlands, can probably pull more than one that lives in area's with steeper grades. Ala the 12% min grade part. Does not do me a lot of good when I see road signs thru out King County/Seattle where I am in the 12-18% range. I even know where a road is that is 24% in grade. Yes a steep mother.

If it was a true how to use the specs to get the correct truck for your application, it would say how to derate the max rating if you were pulling say a 24% grade vs the 12% speced. Or if you were pulling a trailer with 100sqft of frontal area vs the std 60 or 80!

Tow ratings and gcwr is in reality, as much as some want to call it a safety rating, it is nothing more than a performance/warrenty rating. IE how fast you can go, max grade you can go up etc. Stopping in my book is bogus, as the trailer brakes stop the trailer, truck stops the truck. IF the trailer brakes are way oversized, you can stop quicker yet, same with the truck.......

If you are going to quote specs, make sure that anyone can see the spec, how it is figured out, how you can decrease or increase depending upon your application.....Then a spec works, if not, then it is useless as the J2807 spec is IMHO!

Marty

I agree with you 110%. Another problem I see with the J2807 would be folks on RV.net condemning others for exceeding the ratings of said standard. For someone who will only pull in the flats, does he have to stick with those rating for hills? For folks like you pulling the hills, the ratings mean nothing either.

If they rate for morons then is it right to expect professional drivers to have to abide by the standard? If for the professional driver a moron would be extremely dangero... never mind, they are dangerous getting behind the wheel of any vehicle.

One wet season I had one driver locally who went thru numerous clutches on his manual. One day he picked up his vehicle 1.8 miles from my house and arrived only to back his vehicle into my yard and get stuck. Approx an hour later the tow truck showed up to pull him out and take it back to the same dealer as he had destroyed his clutch three feet into my yard! Lasted less then one hour and 2 miles!

[fla-gypsy]

The video is nothing but a bunch of dribble IMO.

[blt2ski]

They probably put it under lock and key, because it was not as good as it was hyped to be! Yeah it was a spec, that one can compare rigs of different types, shapes and forms........

BUT, it still did not take into account how we all use our trucks. IE the one that lives in the flatlands, can probably pull more than one that lives in area's with steeper grades. Ala the 12% min grade part. Does not do me a lot of good when I see road signs thru out King County/Seattle where I am in the 12-18% range. I even know where a road is that is 24% in grade. Yes a steep mother.

If it was a true how to use the specs to get the correct truck for your application, it would say how to derate the max rating if you were pulling say a 24% grade vs the 12% speced. Or if you were pulling a trailer with 100sqft of frontal area vs the std 60 or 80!

Tow ratings and gcwr is in reality, as much as some want to call it a safety rating, it is nothing more than a performance/warrenty rating. IE how fast you can go, max grade you can go up etc. Stopping in my book is bogus, as the trailer brakes stop the trailer, truck stops the truck. IF the trailer brakes are way oversized, you can stop quicker yet, same with the truck.......

If you are going to quote specs, make sure that anyone can see the spec, how it is figured out, how you can decrease or increase depending upon your application.....Then a spec works, if not, then it is useless as the J2807 spec is IMHO!

Marty

[DSteiner51]

One thing I notice that is interesting. The original J2807 was easy to find on the internet but when they revised it they put it under lock and key... well not quite but one needs to be registered and pay $70. The first version was a joke, it makes me wonder what this one really looks like but since I'm no longer doing any mechanical engineering I don't intend to spend the money. Just curious with no need to know.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

LMAO at the Chevy guy from 8:45 to 9:30. The guy sounded like Porky Pig. A bda, bda,bda bda....................:S

Typical corporate speak. Talking out of both sides of his mouth. If your truck is built to the new standards (which he alludes the Chevy is) then why not adopt the standards just like Yoda did?

[DSteiner51]

As mentioned in the video, it will vary from driver to driver so do you rate it for the total moron or the professional driver or where in between the two?

Why is xx number of seconds for entering a freeway unsafe for a half ton but safe for a one ton? Why is xx feet for stopping distance unsafe for a 1/2 ton but not for a one ton? The J2807 standard is a total joke unless all meet one standard. If all meet one standard then we can compare can a 1/2 ton do it or do I need a 3/4 ton? Or a heavy half? etc. Changing the numbers then means nothing. Now add in the drivers ability and we know no more then we know now with no standard.

I've watched folks with more capable rigs then mine go down 7 mountain's 7% slope and end at the bottom with smoking brakes because the driver didn't have the brains to down shift even with signs reminding them to, while I've pulled my rig down a gear, set the cruise and never touched the brakes in the 4 miles of hill. We pretty much maintained the same speed the whole length.

[Dog_Folks]

Clicky