My have things changed
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โApr-06-2020 08:44 PM
Fast forward to now. People are now talking cr@p about the SBC with 370, 380 HP! Talking about how old tech like push rod engines are like buggy whips, bla, bbla, bla...........
My have times have changed. Make up your mind people! :R
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln
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โApr-07-2020 09:24 AM
FishOnOne wrote:
People always complain about this topic when their favorite brand is behind the competition. When their brand is ahead of the competition then all this power is great.
Well I am not one of these guys. I am pissed. GM has been kicking Fords azz up that hill for ten years and they have given that up this year. When I need to wear a G suit for hard acceleration, we then have enough power. Kudos to Ford for dominating the power category this year.
2013 Fuzion 342
2011 RZR Desert Tan
2012 Sea Doo GTX 155
2018 Chevy 3500HD CC LB SRW 4X4 D/A
2015 Chevy Camaro ZL1
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โApr-07-2020 08:48 AM
valhalla360 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:
In regards to diesels, what many do not understand is that unlike gas engines most of the upgrades and improvements made to diesels that increase their horsepower, also increase their efficiency. Slap a turbo on a gasser and you will make a less efficient because it will need to inject more fuel for added air. Slap a turbo on a diesel and it will increase it's efficiency significantly. However, some of these improvements do not make it more reliable as many have seen with the early CP4.
So Ford was making their engines LESS EFFICIENT when they added a turbo to their ecoboost line?
If you want to produce more HP, you need more fuel...regardless of gas or diesel.
PS: My naturally aspirated diesel got 21-22mpg empty. By Brother-in-laws 2008 turbo got 17mpg. So apparently, while he could generate more HP, it wasn't more efficient.
Yes. Compare a 2015-2016 F150 3.5L N/A(that is the only years Ford put an N/A 3.5L in an F150) fuel mileage to a 3.5L Ecoboost engine and you will notice that the Ecoboost uses more fuel. The concept around the Ecoboost is that it uses less fuel than larger displacement engines while delivering better fuel economy and more or the same power than that larger engine.
A diesel is not like a gaser and is not regulated by air. Diesel is regulated by fuel and uses whatever air that it has available to burn said fuel. The more air you add to same amount of fuel will increase its horsepower and its efficiency. Add a turbo to a diesel and inject the same amount of fuel, and you have more horsepower without using more fuel. Add an intercooler and the same amount of fuel and again, you will have more horsepower with the same amount of fuel.
This is a major reason why small 3.0L diesels have the same amount of horsepower and torque of the larger displacement diesel engines of 20 or 30 years ago while using less fuel. Things like turbos, intercooler, higher injection pressures, and so on allowed a 3.0L diesel today have the same(if not more) amount of power than a 7.3L or 8.9L diesel of yesterday. However, as with anything, there only so much power that can be had on the same amount of fuel and in order to make more power you will need more fuel.
What people also tend to forget about all of this is that you need to compare power ratings and capabilities of these engines from those decades ago(not halt ton to half ton or HD to HD), and in this regard they have increased efficiency significantly. A half ton diesel has the same if not more power than big HD diesels of years ago while having the same capabilities. So if you needed to tow 8k back then, then you would have needed an HD truck, but today it can be done with a half ton with a smaller displacement engine that makes the same if not more power while achieving much better fuel economy.
Today's HD trucks with 6.X liter engines also grew in power and capability and can be compared to medium duty to light heavy duty trucks with 12.X liter and up engines from decades ago in terms of what they can haul and in that regard they are way more efficient. People tend to wrongfully compare HD trucks of today to HD trucks of yesterday even though the capabilities of the two are no where near each other. Largely because what we tow nowadays is much heavier than we towed back then. You would need a class 4, 5, 6, or 7 truck back then to tow what class 2b and 3 trucks can tow today.
In regards to your old N/A diesel to your buddies 2008. I am willing to bed that his truck is a lot larger and heavier, you are comparing old highway speeds that used to be 55 mph or 60 mph to today's speed limits of 70 and 75 mph, different driving styles, and a way more powerful engine that adds more fuel for more power, but if it it added the same amount of fuel then it would make more power than the N/A diesel while achieving the same if not better fuel economy.
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel
Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS
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โApr-07-2020 08:22 AM
Super_Dave wrote:
I usually laugh when folks get wound around the axle about mileage with heavy duty vehicles and RV's. As long as I stay out of single digits I consider it a blessing. Give me torque and quick 0 - 60.
In the mid 80's my future wife and I were traveling the Ca. coast on a motorcycle pulling a small trailer. I was getting 50 MPG.
Once when we stopped for gas, a family stopped beside us with a Ford truck pulling a TT (realtively small by todays standards) and the father asked what I was getting. When I told him "50", he just shook his head. I asked and he said he was getting "5" and that he had to fill up every 100 miles.
So things are definitely better.
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โApr-07-2020 07:57 AM
Rig: 2018 Big Country 3155 RLK
Boat: 21' North River Seahawk
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โApr-07-2020 07:52 AM
ShinerBock wrote:
Slap a turbo on a gasser and you will make a less efficient because it will need to inject more fuel for added air.
The main reason I see for any efficiency loss is that they generally reduce the compression ratio about 10% to control NOX with the boost. However, some of that will be made up when idling since the smaller engine requires less fuel at idle. The two boosted engines that I own are much more efficient than the non-boosted engines that they replaced and I have several friends and relatives with the 2.7 Ecoboost reporting amazing fuel economy numbers, double the mpg that my V10 gave with nearly as much power.
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โApr-07-2020 07:40 AM
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โApr-07-2020 07:15 AM
ShinerBock wrote:
In regards to diesels, what many do not understand is that unlike gas engines most of the upgrades and improvements made to diesels that increase their horsepower, also increase their efficiency. Slap a turbo on a gasser and you will make a less efficient because it will need to inject more fuel for added air. Slap a turbo on a diesel and it will increase it's efficiency significantly. However, some of these improvements do not make it more reliable as many have seen with the early CP4.
So Ford was making their engines LESS EFFICIENT when they added a turbo to their ecoboost line?
If you want to produce more HP, you need more fuel...regardless of gas or diesel.
PS: My naturally aspirated diesel got 21-22mpg empty. By Brother-in-laws 2008 turbo got 17mpg. So apparently, while he could generate more HP, it wasn't more efficient.
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
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โApr-07-2020 06:37 AM
4x4ord wrote:
When we bought our last car I didnt even care enough to look under the hood to see if it had an engine let alone ask about hp. With the truck I want enough power to pull my 5ver 60 mph up a 8% grade. I think the 2020 Ford is finally there.
What 8% grades do you travel on towing a 5th wheel?
My old now RAM with only 385/865 twice did round trips with a 16K 5th wheel 24,500 combined between the NW and Arizona, once with a smaller 5th wheel, 1.5 round trips with the TT and one with a box trailer. Just do not know how I did it with all the mountain passes and high winds.
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โApr-07-2020 06:13 AM
In regards to diesels, what many do not understand is that unlike gas engines most of the upgrades and improvements made to diesels that increase their horsepower, also increase their efficiency. Slap a turbo on a gasser and you will make a less efficient because it will need to inject more fuel for added air. Slap a turbo on a diesel and it will increase it's efficiency significantly. However, some of these improvements do not make it more reliable as many have seen with the early CP4.
You also have the fact that you are not getting this horsepower all the time. Unlike ECM's in the past, the advanced ECM's of today allow for more programming and more functions meaning that the manufacturer can add more defueling into the maps to where they couldn't before. Think of it as a hard drive on a PC. Ten years ago, 100 GB was a lot and needed something big to hold that amount of data. Now, that ain't nothing and you can easily fit 100GB worth of data in something so small it can fit in an ECM. So while manufacturers are posting big numbers, it doesn't mean you are getting those numbers all the time.
But for those that are wanting more efficiency out of these HD trucks, it is coming. Now that phase one has finished, which focused on emissions, phase two is just starting to be implemented and it focuses on fuel efficiency numbers of these trucks. HD (8,501 GVWR and up) trucks will soon be included in a manufacturers Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency(CAFE) numbers meaning that the fuel economy of these trucks will now be apart of the manufacturers weighted average of what they sell. This also means that you will start to see fuel economy numbers on the window stickers of HD trucks as well. This is why manufacturers have been making improvement to the trucks for better fuel economy like more gears in transmissions and taller rear ratios because they are getting ready for it to hit in the next couple of years.
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel
Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS
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โApr-07-2020 05:19 AM
Our current 2008 F250 with V10 has 365hp...yeah, we have to wind the RPM up higher to get that HP but plenty of HP available.
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
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โApr-07-2020 04:56 AM
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"
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โApr-07-2020 02:53 AM
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5
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โApr-06-2020 09:14 PM
Since we replaced our smaller 20' toy hauler with a 30' I'm considering a axle change and going to a 5spd+2 just to keep things reasonable. Also shifting 5 times before making it through the intersection will make it seem like another day at work.
2005 Forest River T26 Toy Hauler
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โApr-06-2020 08:51 PM
I say keep making improvements!