New Lance, Refused Delivery; Your Opinions Please

[Prominion]

Hi, bit of a saga...I purchased a new, 2011 Lance 830 from Sunridge RV in Airdrie 6 weeks ago. The unit was a little weathered from the time it had spent on the lot but the price was good, so I put a deposit down with the balance due on delivery.
When they finally called me in last Wednesday, I had another look up on the roof, it was covered in snow the previous visit. I was surprised to see a large deformation directly to the right of the forward roof vent and pointed it out to the tech, who noted "that doesn't look good" and continued on with re-caulking all the seams that were open.
I took a straight edge up and measured a 3/4" depression within a 3' diameter to the right of the vent. I advised the tech that I was refusing delivery of the unit and would be back to talk with the sales manager when he was in. Returning Friday afternoon, the Service Manager informed me that his senior tech had checked it out and found nothing wrong. They inquired with Lance who advised I should park the unit 4" nose up and maintain seals around the roof openings...
I walked away from the deal based on non disclosure of a structural defect or damage, the dealer is not returning my deposit. I was not provided Lance's "opinion", only advised that the roof is under warranty and that the dealer would honor it.
Here are a couple of pics, I don't agree with the dealer telling me this is nothing to worry about and even if there is a problem, it is under warranty...





I am positive one of the roof joists is bent or detached at the vent corner and will be taking the dealer to Court to recover my deposit...Your opinions matter and will likely help in my efforts.

Thanks,

[Reddog1]

Prominion wrote:
... I am positive one of the roof joists is bent or detached at the vent corner and will be taking the dealer to Court to recover my deposit...Your opinions matter and will likely help in my efforts.

Thanks,

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This thread is closed.

Wayne
Moderator

[wnjj]

silversand wrote:

"I walked away from the deal based on non disclosure of a structural defect or damage, the dealer is not returning my deposit."

....this is Canada. No one can simply "keep" a deposit if a buyer decides to back out of a purchase for any reason whatsoever. If you, for example, went to buy a new or used car, an aircraft, boat, refrigerator, insurance, ANYTHING, and gave a deposit for later delivery in this country (Provincial laws vary, but they are essentially the same cross-country in principle/intent), and you decide to back out of the deal FOR ANY REASON, you deposit MUST be given back IMMEDIATELY. Even signing a contract, you have a cooling off period where you can back out of the deal NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON. No lawyer needed.

Forensics on "the roof depression":

Sabconsulting nailed it: this depression likely existed for many seasons (or, years) based on his evaluation of the concentric evaporation stains.

If the deposit must be returned for any reason, what exactly is the point it putting one down? Isn't the whole point for the buyer to have a financial incentive to continue the deal? Now obviously if there are quality issues the "deal" should no longer apply.

[sue_t]

While searching for a used RV we checked many thoroughly. It wasn't uncommon to see roof leaks that had softened the roof AND the wall area at the floor.

The water that comes in the roof needs to go somewhere ... usually down. Once down, it pools at the floor structure and starts rotting that area too. One was so bad the wall was rotted about half-way up ... my thumb indented the wall when I pressed into it! The floor under the dinette seat was rotten/soft. Wouldn't have noticed it if we hadn't been overly curious about the discolored vinyl flooring.

[bjbear]

silversand wrote:


....this is Canada. No one can simply "keep" a deposit if a buyer decides to back out of a purchase for any reason whatsoever. If you, for example, went to buy a new or used car, an aircraft, boat, refrigerator, insurance, ANYTHING, and gave a deposit for later delivery in this country (Provincial laws vary, but they are essentially the same cross-country in principle/intent), and you decide to back out of the deal FOR ANY REASON, you deposit MUST be given back IMMEDIATELY. Even signing a contract, you have a cooling off period where you can back out of the deal NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON. No lawyer needed.

Unfortunately, there is no cooling off period in Alberta for vehicle purchases. It only applies to direct sales (i.e. vacuum cleaners from a door to door salesman).

silversand wrote:

Forensics on "the roof depression":


Sabconsulting nailed it: this depression likely existed for many seasons (or, years) based on his evaluation of the concentric evaporation stains.

Sounds like you know something about the construction techniques. Maybe the OP can use this info when putting together a legal challenge to get his deposit back.

[bjbear]

Son of Norway wrote:
Being a lawyer myself I am always a little skeptical when I read posts on these forums advising people to "get a lawyer" or "take them to court." Often those options are not very realistic. Lawyers are expensive and may not be the best use of your money. Going to court is expensive, the dealer will have a lawyer and you may just wind up getting a nasty and expensive lesson in contract law.

I think the best way to handle this kind of situation is with tact and negotiation. You're bargaining position is somewhat weak. The dealer already has your money. Some options: Ask to see the report from Lance. See if a rep from Lance is willing to look at the problem with you. See if the dealer will agree to an independent inspection to determine if there is a real structural problem and how it can be remedied. See if there is another trailer on the lot that you might want to buy from the dealer. See if the dealer will accept a small monetary settlement to keep their reputation and make the problem go away.

Try one of these approaches and see if you have any luck. Post again to this thread with what happens and we can see where to take it from there. Good luck and I hope that the situation is resolved happily for you.

Miles

Here in Alberta, we have small claims court. It is relative easy to do and you really do not need a lawyer. You can claim up to $25K. The secret is to have good documentation and write up a clear and concise claim. I suspect that the original poster will get his deposit back as soon as the dealer receives a notice to appear. The dealer will know that he has very little chance of winning as it is clear from the pictures that there is structural/water damage.

Read about it here

[Butch50]

monkey44 wrote:
Quote: "I can't believe this dealer wasn't aware this camper had water pooling on its roof. I bet they were really happy to move this on when someone came to look at it when the roof was covered in snow and couldn't be seen"

I'm not so sure the dealer knew it, why would he? I'm betting dealers take delivery and never climb on the roof. No reason to do anything (pay some one time to inspect every unit) until it's sold.

Doesn't excuse him refusing to fix it or refusing to return deposit, but it was probably a surprise to dealer too.

How many here believe he would have seen it?

When I worked part time at an RV dealer after retirement when a new unit came in it was inspected for any damage prior to accepting delivery and this included the roof as the shipper could have damaged it during delivery. If the shipper damaged it had to be noted at that time not 6 or more months later. There were a couple of them that they made the shipper haul back as it was damaged and the dealer did not want to take responsibility or headache to try to repair it.

Shipper also had to wash the unit before the dealership accepted the unit. This made it eaiser to see any damage.

[silversand]

"I walked away from the deal based on non disclosure of a structural defect or damage, the dealer is not returning my deposit."

....this is Canada. No one can simply "keep" a deposit if a buyer decides to back out of a purchase for any reason whatsoever. If you, for example, went to buy a new or used car, an aircraft, boat, refrigerator, insurance, ANYTHING, and gave a deposit for later delivery in this country (Provincial laws vary, but they are essentially the same cross-country in principle/intent), and you decide to back out of the deal FOR ANY REASON, you deposit MUST be given back IMMEDIATELY. Even signing a contract, you have a cooling off period where you can back out of the deal NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON. No lawyer needed.

Forensics on "the roof depression":

Sabconsulting nailed it: this depression likely existed for many seasons (or, years) based on his evaluation of the concentric evaporation stains.

[monkey44]

Quote: "I can't believe this dealer wasn't aware this camper had water pooling on its roof. I bet they were really happy to move this on when someone came to look at it when the roof was covered in snow and couldn't be seen"

I'm not so sure the dealer knew it, why would he? I'm betting dealers take delivery and never climb on the roof. No reason to do anything (pay some one time to inspect every unit) until it's sold.

Doesn't excuse him refusing to fix it or refusing to return deposit, but it was probably a surprise to dealer too.

How many here believe he would have seen it?

[ecoast]

does the contract allow for acceptance contingent upon inspection @ PDI/delivery?


Did you use a CC to deposit? If so, call CC co. and dispute...

[sabconsulting]

This doesn't look like something recent to me. I notice the concentric rings of staining where water has built up, then evaporated, then built up again. This puddle of water could have been there since 2011 - i.e. that part of the roof could have been almost continuously wet since then. Also, the brown staining implies that dirt had built up on that roof, so even in dry weather that build-up of mud would still keep the roof underneath wet.

Plus that open caulking looks awful (or rather the visible gaps in it). My caulking looked similar, but my camper has spent over 20 years in a wet climate. In the case of my camper water got in through the caulking and ruined the timber components of the roof below causing be to have to replace much of the roof timber. Is that new white caulk they have applied directly to the mud?

I can't believe this dealer wasn't aware this camper had water pooling on its roof. I bet they were really happy to move this on when someone came to look at it when the roof was covered in snow and couldn't be seen.

Steve.

[Mello_Mike]

You did the right thing. I would've done the same thing and walked away. They'll give your deposit back knowing that you'll be taking them to court. Good luck!

[tsetsaf]

Is this an old thread? OP bought a 2011 model year tc that has sat for that entire time? I think your mistake was making the deal in the first place. The dealer should refund your deposit or apply it to another unit.

[Camper_Jeff___K]

A dealer and manufacturer should be embarrassed by this roof. It will leak!
Shame on the manufacturer for releasing a finished product with such an obvious error in construction and for sticking the dealer and in turn the customer with an inferior finished product.
Does the dealer and manufacturer really want to stick a customer with a seemingly finished, inspected, approved, and shipped product that will certainly be talked about and attentively watched for outcome by many potential future buyers. I would hope not.

[All58Parks]

mockturtle wrote:
You might write to Good Sam's Action Line. They often get results in cases like this. Worth a try. Of course, you must identify the dealer in order for them to help you

I think that is great advice.

I'm surprised the dealer is holding out on this, that roof is just wrong!

Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out.