Overwhelmingly BIO-diesel in Portland, Oregon

[ParkCountry]

We're now in Portland, Oregon, having spent the past few days in Bend, Oregon. One thing I have really, really noticed here is the difficulty in finding PURE DIESEL. Just be aware that most stations that carry Diesel here will be a mixture of between 5% and 20% BIO-diesel. If you get on the GasBuddy.com website and try finding the cheapest diesel, the cheaper/cheapest listings will be Bio-diesel. Where some stations are charging ss low as $2.19/gallon, I finally found a Chevron station in Troutdale (just east of Portland) at the I-84, Exit 17, location that sells PURE diesel ($2.59/gallon). Just look for the huge Love's Travel Stop and this Chevron station is right next to it on the west side. I have nothing but contempt for the "environmentalists" and the Federal government for pulling this **** on the American public. We are headed for the Oregon Coast in 2 days. Does anyone know if the same problem exists out there, and suggested stations for PURE Diesel?

[Durb]

Michelle.S wrote:
I think if you research deep enough, you will find out that pure diesel you bought may still be B5, because I believe for blends of B5 or less that don't have to post anymore. If more that B5 will generally posted as Up To B20.

I posted earlier that the OP should just drive over the bridge to Washington and buy #2 diesel at Costco. A subsequent post stated Washington is mandated 2% which I researched and is indeed the case. The pumps at Costco advertise #2 diesel, that is all, no B2 or B5. I presume your statement above must be the case.

[mike-uswest]

I wish our ethanol free gas was only $.20 a gallon more. Here it is $2.00 a gallon more. It makes running around the lake with your boat a major investment.

Mike

[Muddydogs]

Tyler0215 wrote:
Politics aside please. The science is there.
Bio-diesel or ethanol blends have been proven to not harm engines or components.
I have used ethanol blends in all my vehicles for many years with no problems at all.

You sir are wrong and must believe anything your told. Ethanol blend fuel is causing nothing but problems in small engines that may be used infrequently. Talk when any small engine, ATV or the like mechanic and they will tell you that ethanol fuel is very good for business. I get better mpg in my pickup with ethanol free gas, almost good enough to offset the extra $.20 a gallon ethanol free costs.

Luckily around Utah ethanol free is easy to find and has become popular enough that places like Maverick are upgrading there pumps to have an ethanol free nozzle right next to the ethanol and diesel nozzle.

I don't run anything but ethanol free in my yard equipment, ATV, generators and the toy hauler fuel tank. I no longer have problems with gummed up carbs and poor running equipment. I have a 5500 Generac generator that no matter what I did if it sat for 3 months the carb would be gummed up and the float stuck open. I have had the carb off the genny 4 times freeing up the float and cleaning the carb, started to run ethanol free gas in it and now I can let it set for 6+ months with fuel in the carb and she starts right up and runs fine. I have got some good deals on equipment off our local classifieds because the seller couldn't get the item to run, a quick carb cleaning and everything works good.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

ktmrfs wrote:

Michelle.S wrote:
I think if you research deep enough, you will find out that pure diesel you bought may still be B5, because I believe for blends of B5 or less that don't have to post anymore. If more that B5 will generally posted as Up To B20.

in oregon the "up to B20" can be up to, but the way to tell if it is B20 or less is to see if it is exempt from road tax. If it is B20 it is exempt, if less it is not. Pretty obvious since it is then usually $.25 less than the B5

So you think in my case it's ok to go 300% over spec for the fuel system? My engine calls for no more than 5% bio. Why not put 60 or 80% bio in your truck time after time? No big deal right?

Do you seriously think that the manufactures just pull that number out of a hat? Or do you think they just might do millions of dollars of research to come up with a safe number?

Here is a study quote for 20% bio: Link

The results of this study suggest that long term operation with B20 at the current specification limits for alkali and alkaline earth metal impurities can adversely impact the performance of DOC, DPF and SCR systems.[/quote]

No big deal right? DPF's and SCR's are dirt cheap! :R

[ktmrfs]

Michelle.S wrote:
I think if you research deep enough, you will find out that pure diesel you bought may still be B5, because I believe for blends of B5 or less that don't have to post anymore. If more that B5 will generally posted as Up To B20.

in oregon the "up to B20" can be up to, but the way to tell if it is B20 or less is to see if it is exempt from road tax. If it is B20 it is exempt, if less it is not. Pretty obvious since it is then usually $.25 less than the B5

[Michelle_S]

I think if you research deep enough, you will find out that pure diesel you bought may still be B5, because I believe for blends of B5 or less that don't have to post anymore. If more that B5 will generally posted as Up To B20.

[ktmrfs]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Tyler0215 wrote:
Politics aside please. The science is there.
Bio-diesel or ethanol blends have been proven to not harm engines or components.
I have used ethanol blends in all my vehicles for many years with no problems at all.

Really? Pretty interesting statement considering every single diesel maker disagrees with you. You know something that they don't?

First there are compatibility problems.


Then there is the problem with the SCR and DPF systems.

Then there is post injection problems with Biodiesel.


Need I go on? And I didn't even talk about Alkie in gasoline! :R

Where do some of you come up with this stuff? The disinformation and misinformation on this forum is astounding! :R

if every single mfg disagrees, why are at least 3mfg certifying the current diesels vehicles for use with B15 and in most cases B20 and have certified use of B5 for more than 10 years.

yes, initially there were compatibility problems with high blends with seals, hoses etc. but those were adressed easily long ago and never was an issue with B2 of B5.

and none of the links you posted are from a vehicle mfg. paper yes, validity with VOE well subject to careful examination for sure before concluding anything. and at least one is 5 years old.

Every single manufacture says bio is hard on engine parts.

#1. Name one engine manufacture that recommends running 100% bio; or even 50% for that matter? Oh that's right, there is none. Do you know why? Because it's hard on engine parts.

#2. Look at the oil change schedule for straight #2 and then for a #2 bio blend. Oh, look at that; if it's a #2 bio blend you have to follow a severe oil change schedule. I wonder why that is? :R Do you know why?

#3. Bio is hydroscopic and holds water in suspension; how compatible do you think that is with a CP4-x pump? :R

#4. Not all people on this forum own new trucks. Try running bio or even a strong bio blend and see what happens to your hoses or rubber parts. Let me know how that works out for you. :B

#5. Not all people have old trucks on this forum. Try running 100% bio in them and tell me how it works out for your SCR and DPF for you. :B

#6. The manufacture of my truck says no more than 5% bio; PERIOD! Some states mandate over 5%. Some 10%. Do you think it's a good idea to go 100% over manufacture specs? What about 150 or 200%? Is that ok also? :R

B100, yes, I'll agree it is an issue with most vehicles. But there are also very very very few stations selling B100, or anything above B20 for that matter. But B5 is very compatible with almost any engine, and B15 or B20 is certified for use by the big 3 for the last number of years. And at least for my truck there is NO mention of changing ANY service interval when going to B5, B15 or B20 vs regular diesel. However there are multiple warnings about the dangers of using straight #1 or even small amounts of #1. So they do care about what you run and at least with my vehicles bio up to B20 is perfectly fine according to the mfg.

And like I mentioned, B5 and occasionally B20 for 150K in my 04 ended up with injector balance rates near the number when new, indicating very very little impact on the injectors, a very common problem with low lubricity, and again on issues with fuel filters, water seperation etc.

But get used to B2 or B5, because more and more states are mandating it, and often that means adjacent states and areas end up with it anyway.

Personally, I love the results of B5 and B20 so far in my vehicles. But granted they are rated to take both. improved lubricity, higher cetane number same energy content, all good stuff. you can really notice the cetane improvement on a cold morning start and cold engine much less rattle, even on the latest version trucks.

[noteven]

The geniuses say our dirty oil here in Albirda is ancient squarshed plants n animals...

So fill up here if you want pure biodiesel.

[mike-uswest]

Tyler0215 wrote:
Politics aside please. The science is there.
Bio-diesel or ethanol blends have been proven to not harm engines or components.
I have used ethanol blends in all my vehicles for many years with no problems at all.

In our area, if you take an outboard motor, a lawn mower, chain saw, or any small engine in that is giving you trouble, the first thing they ask you is have you been using alcohol gas in it. I did, and it cost me nearly $300 to get it going again. Another way the guvment and the Greenies are working for you.

Mike

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

wanderingbob wrote:
Turtle , Looks to me that article that you referenced concerns B 100 not B 5,
where do YOU come up with this stuff !

My concerns are ANYTHING over manufacture specs. Now what truck does the OP have WB?

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

ktmrfs wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Tyler0215 wrote:
Politics aside please. The science is there.
Bio-diesel or ethanol blends have been proven to not harm engines or components.
I have used ethanol blends in all my vehicles for many years with no problems at all.

Really? Pretty interesting statement considering every single diesel maker disagrees with you. You know something that they don't?

First there are compatibility problems.


Then there is the problem with the SCR and DPF systems.

Then there is post injection problems with Biodiesel.


Need I go on? And I didn't even talk about Alkie in gasoline! :R

Where do some of you come up with this stuff? The disinformation and misinformation on this forum is astounding! :R

if every single mfg disagrees, why are at least 3mfg certifying the current diesels vehicles for use with B15 and in most cases B20 and have certified use of B5 for more than 10 years.

yes, initially there were compatibility problems with high blends with seals, hoses etc. but those were adressed easily long ago and never was an issue with B2 of B5.

and none of the links you posted are from a vehicle mfg. paper yes, validity with VOE well subject to careful examination for sure before concluding anything. and at least one is 5 years old.

Every single manufacture says bio is hard on engine parts.

#1. Name one engine manufacture that recommends running 100% bio; or even 50% for that matter? Oh that's right, there is none. Do you know why? Because it's hard on engine parts.

#2. Look at the oil change schedule for straight #2 and then for a #2 bio blend. Oh, look at that; if it's a #2 bio blend you have to follow a severe oil change schedule. I wonder why that is? :R Do you know why?

#3. Bio is hydroscopic and holds water in suspension; how compatible do you think that is with a CP4-x pump? :R

#4. Not all people on this forum own new trucks. Try running bio or even a strong bio blend and see what happens to your hoses or rubber parts. Let me know how that works out for you. :B

#5. Not all people have old trucks on this forum. Try running 100% bio in them and tell me how it works out for your SCR and DPF for you. :B

#6. The manufacture of my truck says no more than 5% bio; PERIOD! Some states mandate over 5%. Some 10%. Do you think it's a good idea to go 100% over manufacture specs? What about 150 or 200%? Is that ok also? :R

[wanderingbob]

Turtle , Looks to me that article that you referenced concerns B 100 not B 5,
where do YOU come up with this stuff !

[Fish_mojo]

Do you think the vehicle manufacturers would warranty their engines for B20 use if they thought it would damage the engines?

[Bedlam]

Tyler0215 wrote:
Politics aside please. The science is there.
Bio-diesel or ethanol blends have been proven to not harm engines or components.
I have used ethanol blends in all my vehicles for many years with no problems at all.

There are number things wrong with ethanol mixed gasoline:

1. Absorbs water reducing shelf life
2. Breaks down into gummy deposits clogging filters, carburetors and jets
3. Less BTU per gallon which reduces mileage
4. More energy is spent making ethanol than what is produced
5. Ethanol production largely subsided by government programs

We could on if you want to start your topic thread.

[ktmrfs]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Tyler0215 wrote:
Politics aside please. The science is there.
Bio-diesel or ethanol blends have been proven to not harm engines or components.
I have used ethanol blends in all my vehicles for many years with no problems at all.

Really? Pretty interesting statement considering every single diesel maker disagrees with you. You know something that they don't?

First there are compatibility problems.


Then there is the problem with the SCR and DPF systems.

Then there is post injection problems with Biodiesel.


Need I go on? And I didn't even talk about Alkie in gasoline! :R

Where do some of you come up with this stuff? The disinformation and misinformation on this forum is astounding! :R

if every single mfg disagrees, why are at least 3mfg certifying the current diesels vehicles for use with B15 and in most cases B20 and have certified use of B5 for more than 10 years.

yes, initially there were compatibility problems with high blends with seals, hoses etc. but those were adressed easily long ago and never was an issue with B2 of B5.

and none of the links you posted are from a vehicle mfg. paper yes, validity with VOE well subject to careful examination for sure before concluding anything. and at least one is 5 years old.