Planning rebuild

[pjay9]

It has been suggested that if I am going to go to the extent of what needs to be done regarding the nose rot and slide side repair plus the wings both sides on the 1161, the whole camper should have the skin removed and all bad spots repaired. That then begs these questions:

Is there a wrap such as tyvek that sould be done before the new skin is installed?

Should the camper be sheathed with thin plywood for additional strength? Or is there a better material? Will that help to maintain camper integrity (keep it from racking)? I don't see this material adding more than a half inch to over all width..is there a futuristic material out there to do this job? Would a thin gague sheet aluminum be a good sheath?

What places should have better reinforcement or attachment points..i.e. Jacks, back bumper, pull out stairs, Lance front shocks.

I have been looking at the slide fixes on here. I feel that if the tie downs had not been there the slide would have survived but where else could they have gone? Just make that whole sill stout!

I am really looking for meaningful comments with suggestions and ideas, and even things that I have not thought about. YES I have been reading and pinting out the Univ rebuild posts...loads of great info...which can always be improved on each time it is done.

Hope all are having a great 4TH...as many of you know I am a Captain for tours and charters on yachts and passenger vessels, I don't have to work this 4TH hooray! :>)

Looking forward to a good discussion and provoking ideas. Warm regards and thx to all who respond. Capt. PJ

[pjay9]

Chet and Jumbo, I have taken no offense and feel that all is right with the world of TC's. So please let us move forward. I will start a thread on this whole process...I am looking forward to it! YES to have a better more robust unit that suits our needs is a goal. So moving along! THX!!

[JumboJet]

----------------------

[sleepy]

What about the inside walls... will you be able to replace the frame without tearing the paneling?

[JumboJet]

-------------------

[Jeepers92]

I am keeping eyes on this subject. I need to redo the nose on my fox from water damage coming through the clearance lights. This problem occurred about 6 years ago, thanks to an aluminum frame, it's been ok, been to Alaska and back, to Novi Scotia and back, etc. I haven't had any more leaks, but I removed the wet filon and dried out all the moisture when I fixed the light situation. The skin is loose and I want to repair it this fall. We will make a trip along the gulf and up through cal and back through cal later this year, then I will start on the tear down.

[pjay9]

Chet, Well said and appreciated. It was a failure of mine to see the problem occuring sooner where I maybe could have saved it sooner. Now that addresses the rot issue forward. As for the slide sill that has to be a failure in struture and design, rot may be part of that. That will not be deterimined until the skin comes off...IF I do go ahead with this project there will be postings...you can count on it!!!!

Jumbo, point taken, over the years it didn't appear to be a problem, but alas it happens.

There is one thing I can say...this camper has had some good and great use loads of miles racked up, loads of nights boondocking...almost to the point of saying does this camper really owe me anything from the use...Recall with me for a moment 2 trips to FL, a nine week stint in CO over some tough mountain roads, up into the mining hills above Leadville. And I have had said to me isn't it great having 4x4 to get up here...my response is no it is just a dually 2 by....the jaw drops most of the time. So you can see it has not been treated as a princess on the Eisenhower Highways and parked in a full hook each night on a level concrete pad...she gets used. This is just some of the trips. Plus for 8 years she was used as my living quaters at Waterways Cruises each summer from May to Sept, 6 days a week, she has served me well! Plus down to LA each THX GvG to visit Dad another 2400 miles on some rough I-5 surfaces thht rattle your jaw. I am not in a complaint mode, but a realization mode...what should I do? Plus I like hearing the comments posted here and getting the ideas.

Another way to look at it, if I spent 25K fixing her (hope not) would it be better than new? CERTAINLY and the way I want it! Will she last another 10 years...YEP especially the way I am going to do it.

My tool kit is extensive: 900 sqft off an alley with unisaw (30 years old) 3hp, planer, bandsaw (30 years old), Atlas drill press (30), router table, kreg system, air filter sytem, tool vacuum system, compressor, on and on...you get the point...may have to invest in a stapler...but not sure at this point...even have a HPLV system, skilled furniture and cabinet maker...I think my tools and I can handle it.

The more research I do on what I want to achieve the camper keeps coming up as the way to do it...powerful proven diesel truck, pulling a 20' boat, HUMMM camper in between...seems the way it should be.

Hope all had a great 4TH...I did...I didn't have to work!!!!! Capt. PJ

[sleepy]

I'd like to share what I know about Filon.

It is made up of very thin sheets of Luan wood (like that used for the very light weight closet doors in some houses)

Saying that the Luon is 3/16" thick is being generous.

Some of the sheets were 20' x 8' or 10'

There is a"flash coat" of fiberglas resin on one side... now Filon.

This leaves a very thin wood surface facing the wood frame on the inside of the the camper.... it made it easy to glue the Filon to the frame.

In a perfect world this works great.

Of course...we don't live in a perfect world... humidity and water leaks are absorbed into the luon... allowing it to swell and seperate at the glue joints.

Where does the humidity come from?

Breathing, cooking, burning propane in the stove, showers, and natures humidity.

And of course water leaks from joints that need recaulked... fresh water or waste water leaks are more obvious. And owner caused damage.

Over time the filon wood backing shreads... leaving a very thin flash coat of fibreglas resin that is no long totally glued to the frame.

Add in road vibrations, pot holes, hurricane force winds when we have a combined forward speed and head winds of 76 mph or more.

When we had aluminum skins we had screws holdin the skin on... putting a screw in the Filon would hasten the failure of the Filon.

It appears to me that any 10 yeaar old camper with a filon skin is at risk of failing. I'm sure that was part of the rational to go to a metal frame and Adzel skin.

No one wants to hear this... it affects the resale value of the camper and long range durability.

I have observed this first hand on many campers.

I have had many people contact me over the years about purchasing TC's, particularly the Lance 1161/1191 series

I have always tried to get them to avoid the models before 2005

This will never affect my 1161's resale... we will eventually give it away... we never sell cars and trucks... we give them away.

I contacted Lance Customer Service Center in Feruary of this year to inqire about having our 2003 Lance 1161 reskined...

... we mutually agreed that it would cost $15,000... and they (Lance) couldn't do it with Adzel

It is not our faliure... it's the Filon and time.

Sorry to admit this in the open forum..

.... but it bothers me to see Capt PJ (pjay) get blamed for something out of his control... he has taken very good care of his camper. Janet and I have roamed the mountains with him and his wife... I have pictures of me on the roof of his 1161... washing and inspecting it. It was in good shape.

chet

[JumboJet]

-------------

[sleepy]

Yes... I think Adzel is used on things like ambalances too...

[JumboJet]

Check out Azdel if you have not already done so. Lightweight composite. Lance started using this product several years ago. Not supposed to be able to absorb water, swell, or rot.

Azdel

50% lighter than wood

Offers 3x the insulation value of wood

Odorless, Formaldehyde free

Sound and energy absorbing

Impact and puncture resistant to help prevent damage

Impervious to water: Unlike wood it will not rot, mold, or delaminate sidewalls causing costly damage