Rack and Pinion. Again!

[covetsthesun]

Ok, I am beyond frustrated with my truck. 2004 1500 LT3 Silverado ext cab. Last week it was replacing the gauge center. Two days later I notice oil drips on the garage floor... dead center front end. I'd just had the oil changed and wondered if was just a messy job.

So...back to the dealer and up on the lift. Rack and pinion is leaking. My first reaction was "are you kidding me????" I had that replaced in October 2013 with all new stuff at a dealership in Clearwater FL. It was not a cheap repair. I called the FL dealer and asked about warranty and was told 12 months. They agreed that it should have lasted more than 2 years and 60k miles but there was nothing they could do. They suggested that I call GM corporate customer service to see if they would help out. I live in Missouri again by the way.

Any GM folks out there with thoughts on this? I don't really want to spend $$$$$ for another r & p replacement when I can't count on the parts lasting. The original R/P went 200,000 miles. Seems like the replacement should have gone longer than 60k.

cts

[covetsthesun]

gkainz wrote:

covetsthesun wrote:
It was in recently because the oil gauge was reading maxed. The dealer checked the oil pressure and it was fine. It was determined that the gauge cluster was the issue and it was replaced. The oil pressure has been checked twice now and it's fine...so don't think that's the problem. But heck... I'm not a mechanic.

cts

I think this is the big clue here ... I would bet that hoses, lines, and/or sending unit was unhooked or removed/reinstalled during testing. I'll bet your leak is related to one of those items.

Thanks... I'll go back to the dealer and have them recheck everything and clean up the oil. Appreciate the tip.
cts

[covetsthesun]

BenK wrote:

covetsthesun wrote:
snip....
And points west and north as well. My Dad flew planes for a living... he instilled in me that if you take care of your machine like your life depended on it (and it does) it will take care of you. So, things get fixed on the truck. So far, it has never left me stranded. Knock on wood.

A rarity..someone who understands HOW2 take care of stuff...as if your
life depends on it...it does...just that for ground vehicles...they
do NOT fall out of the sky when they hic-up...



Happy Holidays !

While my truck won't fall out of the sky... it can do a lot of really nasty things if steering or brakes fail. A lot of my travels have taken me through some mountain passes with some grades that cause dry mouth. I 70 east out of Denver has a sign for truckers "Truckers... you are not down yet". Pagosa Springs is a favorite place... and there's a song that says "if your brakes go out in Wolf Creek Pass you'll take out half of Pagosa Springs".

I know some folks let little stuff slide... If I'm tempted to do that, I "see" my Dad frowning and saying "I taught you better than that".
Dad flew many planes in his lifetime...while he was not a certified mechanic... he could listen to an engine or a vehicle and tell you something was "getting ready to go". He did his own flight checks even after someone else had already done them. While he could have been considered a "bold pilot"... he was a stunt pilot in his younger years... he was not stupid... he did live to be an "old pilot".

Ah well... a trip down memory lane. Anyway, I hope this explains why I come here and ask questions. I'm not a mechanic... but I sure do respect people with the know how.

Thanks to a previous poster I will go back to the dealer who changed out the info cluster and have them check their work to make sure nothing was bumped, broken or otherwise compromised.

Thanks all
cts

[BenK]

covetsthesun wrote:
snip....
And points west and north as well. My Dad flew planes for a living... he instilled in me that if you take care of your machine like your life depended on it (and it does) it will take care of you. So, things get fixed on the truck. So far, it has never left me stranded. Knock on wood.

A rarity..someone who understands HOW2 take care of stuff...as if your
life depends on it...it does...just that for ground vehicles...they
do NOT fall out of the sky when they hic-up...



Happy Holidays !

[gkainz]

covetsthesun wrote:
It was in recently because the oil gauge was reading maxed. The dealer checked the oil pressure and it was fine. It was determined that the gauge cluster was the issue and it was replaced. The oil pressure has been checked twice now and it's fine...so don't think that's the problem. But heck... I'm not a mechanic.

cts

I think this is the big clue here ... I would bet that hoses, lines, and/or sending unit was unhooked or removed/reinstalled during testing. I'll bet your leak is related to one of those items.

[1oldtruck]

You should contact GM customer service. You have nothing to lose.

[covetsthesun]

Thanks Ben for the illustration. Ricochet, I have been fixing things as they arise on this truck. It has taken me back and forth (driving alone mostly) between Florida and Kansas City many more times than I care to count. And points west and north as well. My Dad flew planes for a living... he instilled in me that if you take care of your machine like your life depended on it (and it does) it will take care of you. So, things get fixed on the truck. So far, it has never left me stranded. Knock on wood.

Most of my travels have been alone while DH worked. No way do I want to be stranded by myself. Not as adventuresome as I used to be.

Thanks all for the advice.
cts

[45Ricochet]

Maybe just me but at a quarter million miles and a 12 year old truck a leak here or there would be normal. If you can't get under it and find the leak point your really at the mercy of any shop. IMO you can expect more items than you did 60k miles ago :W

[BenK]

Got it...so here are some tidbits on how fluids are held in and therefore
why/how they leak...

Think a jar of jam and the lid, which has a gasket on the lid to seal out/in. Some
will have a plastic/rubber ring where the jar's top edge will mate with the lid

Others will have the whole lid inner liner become the sealing agent.

Turn it upside down and if the lid is tightened properly with a good seal...it
will 0r should not leak

If the seal isn't very good because not tightened enough and/or the gasket is
compromised somehow, then the leak.

That is static. Meaning no under pressure.

Now for those which are under pressure. Think of a pressure cooker and the
gasket that is on the lid. Some are on the pot's upper edge rim.

Ditto everything else, it will leak if not tightened enough, or the seal is
somehow compromised

Now toss in sliding/rotating something that has a similar seal/gasket. That is
the rack and pinion steering assembly.

There are rotating and sliding parts that are under pressure...that has to have
very good seals.

Over time, all of that sliding and rotating will wear out the seal and/or the
metal part sliding/rotating against it.

Why we have suggested having the Rack and Pinion cleaned to see if it is leaking.
Plus everything else up and around there.

Now understand and suggest finding a mechanic/dealer to do this. Have them
show you the setup while it is up on the lift (if you can/want to look see yourself)

Automotive will have lots of these fluids pushed/pulled all over the engine
compartment...under pressure.

The hoses, fitting, etc all have potential to leak. Hoses do split over time
from both age and stresses from the pressure. Unseen many times, as it only
leaks at the high end of the working pressure

This is why my advice when turning the steering wheel and hit the bump stop that
limits how much you can turn...to back off a bit once the bump stop is touched.

The power-steering pump will continue to 'try' and turn/move the steering...creating
more pressure against that bump stop (brick wall so to speak)

The steering pump should have a max pressure limit switch, but as hoses age...they
can no longer work at those elevated pressures...to leak...

The leak(s) will be from the mating areas with gaskets or hose fittings
(ends of the hoses), or seals for rotating/sliding components...not
form the middle of a metal part

Good luck and Happy Holidays !!!

[covetsthesun]

mkirsch wrote:
Any reason you can't get under there and have a look for yourself? There's a plastic "skid plate" that comes off with 2-3 bolts. Rack and pinion is right above that as I recall, and you should be able to see that it's wet from oil.

I would not know a rack and pinion if it bit me. And, having a few physical issues... I do depend on mechanics to take care of my truck. DH is not what you'd call handy around a vehicle since about 1975.

I'm the one who looks after the vehicle maintenance. That's one of the reasons I like to come here and ask questions, so that when I do go to a dealership I have information to ask intelligent questions there.

It's not that I mind getting dirty... it's that I just don't know what I'm looking for.

cts

[BenK]

"....blackish spot. Not red. Not solid black...." can be almost any fluid that
is up front

Coolant going bad

Steering fluid going bad

Engine oil with lots of oxidation/metal oxides/etc

Even brake fluid gone bad that has found a route to that point



If you are not willing to go 'up' there and find where it is coming from...then
you will continue to be at the mercy of whatever the mechanics say it is...

As others have recommended in the past...clean everything up there so that you
can see where it is coming from. Or if getting dirty is not your thing, then have
the dealer or better yet, an independent mechanic clean it and check it again later

[Ozlander]

Or see where the oil is coming from.

[mkirsch]

Any reason you can't get under there and have a look for yourself? There's a plastic "skid plate" that comes off with 2-3 bolts. Rack and pinion is right above that as I recall, and you should be able to see that it's wet from oil.

[covetsthesun]

Update: Watched and waited for any new oil spots. Nothing for awhile and then just a few days ago there was a brand new blackish spot. Not red. Not solid black. Steering still seems to be fine. Since I'd had all this replaced less than 60k miles ago, I called the Florida dealership to ask about warranty. 12/12 so no help there, although they did say the "expectation" was that it should last longer than 60k miles. Said I should contact GM Corp cust svc...maybe they would help. The dealer here pretty much said the same thing.
At this point... I'm seriously considering a second opinion from a larger dealership 30 miles away. Fresh eyes.

It does seem that the first rack/pinion lasted 203k miles, the second should have gone more than 60k.

Anyone have luck calling the GM Corp Cust Svc line or am I wasting my time?

Thanks
cts

[BenK]

Deathcool will turn dark brown when air gets into the closed system...hope it isn't
that, as that is expensive to fix...my radiator guy took over from his dad, who
was my AC/Radiator guy...high school buddy retired early because of Deathcool
work from dealers

NOthing wrong with DeathCool (OATs coolant)...until air gets into the system...I've
switched all of mine to American Green Coolant

If interested...search on this portal 'deathcool'...