RV Salesman and Truck Recommendations

[mitw44]

I was at a local RV show the other day and was inside a Cedar Creek Hathaway 34RL2. The catalog lists the following weights:

GVWR 16,270
Hitch 2,270
UVW 12,009
Length 37' 11"

There was another couple inside, and it turns out, they had just bought this unit. The new owner said he was , trading in a travel trailer that he was currently pulling with a half ton truck. He told me that he would be buying a new truck to pull the new unit with. He was talking about getting a GMC 3/4 ton. Since he hadn't bought it yet, I very politely suggested he at least look at a SRW 1 ton, and started pointing out the weight that would count as payload, and what general payloads the different types of trucks had.

That's when the salesman came on board, overheard us, and said very confidently "Any 3/4 ton diesel will easily pull this". That's when I politely said "Enjoy your new rig!" and left.

I personally know the salesman since we live in the same hometown, and I know he doesn't own an RV or a truck.

Is the salesman right? Why wouldn't a salesman at least educate the new buyer on weights and discuss the various options with him, especially considering he has to go out and buy a new truck anyway? A new truck is expensive enough, without buying it and finding out its not enough truck. Or should I just keep my mouth shut?

While I don't have a 5th wheel yet, I read these discussions to educate myself. Wouldn't you want to take 20% of the GVWR and assume that will be your worst-case pin weight, and then figure in you, your passengers, and any cargo in the truck? Looking at it this way, the pin weight could be as high as 3200 pounds even before passengers and cargo. This pin weight alone would be beyond the payload capacity of most if not all 3/4 tons that I have personally looked at.

As I hope to one day soon be in this new owners position, and needing to buy a new truck myself for such a purchase, can you all share how you would approach a truck purchase in this case?

[Cummins12V98]

"Legal? If he registers it for the proper weight he would be more legal then many weight police here. "

So true!!!

[Cummins12V98]

"But Ram dooleys have an AAM 11.8. Presume it's better the the 11.5."

I'm thinkin so. :B

[valhalla360]

For the negligible cost, moving up to the 1ton SRW could be a nice option for the guy but he can probably stay within weights with a 3/4ton if he watches it.

He's going to be up at the limits for a 3/4ton, so why not give yourself a little breathing room (excessive taxes on a 1ton would be a consideration).

[DSteiner51]

womps wrote:
The salesman was right, a 3/4 ton diesel truck will easily tow that 5th wheel. It just won’t be anywhere close to legal doing it.

Legal? If he registers it for the proper weight he would be more legal then many weight police here.

I see farm and construction trucks every day that are over the rating going down the road and seldom ever see them broke down. A friend had an F150he used in construction, added an extra leaf to the rear springs (common) for an extra 1000lbs and at 250k miles he had engine work done. I ran mine over approx 300 lbs and folks here claimed it would explode and kill folks even tho it was a joy to tow. Getting there was half the fun of camping. The engine, tranny, drive train worked fine right up to trade off. The bed rusted so there wasn’t much floor left and cab was starting holes. Did 300 lbs over gvwr and 1000lbs over cgwr cause it to rust? It sure didn’t hurt the drive train and suspension.

Only on RV.net does the sticker on the door post determine life and death, legal or illegal. The fact is with the mentality of many here, the vehicle is severely over loaded at any weight as soon as the driver slides behind the wheel.

[harmanrk]

goducks10 wrote:
Actually on Fords there is a difference between the 250-350-450.
Different rear ends with difference size bearings and splines.
Page 40.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2018/Esb2018-F-250_F-350_F-450-SD-Pickups-Specs.pdf

Actually there is not. On the Ford discussion group, its been known for a while now, the information in that chart is incorrect. The 250 and 350 axles are listed as 'Ford Sterling M275' and 'Ford & Dana' respectively. To start, there is no Ford Sterling M275 It is either the Ford Sterling 10.5, or the Dana M275. Both trucks are available with both. 350 Gas gets the Sterling, 350 Diesel gets the Dana. 250 gets the Sterling, unless the HD Tow package is selected (Diesel only option), then it gets the Dana as well.

The mechanical difference, is the spring rate of the rear spring packs. Beyond that, some plastic trim, with 2 vs 3, and a sheet of paper with a declared vehicle class.

[Grit_dog]

And you're right, Ferd uses different axles on each model. And even the "wimpy" 10.5 sterling is good for 9750lbs.
GM and ram use AAM 11.5s almost exclusively, good for 10klb rated. But Ram dooleys have an AAM 11.8. Presume it's better the the 11.5.

Either way, there isn't a rear axle under a current HD pickup that isn't good for 10klbs or close to it.

[Grit_dog]

Well, lol at this thread. It took a serious turn down weight cop boulevard...

[goducks10]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
A 1 ton isn't that much more than a 3/4 ton and all the components are heavier as well as the tow capacity.

Really? Is the frame heavier? Are the brakes heavier? Is the tranny heavier? What about the engine? Does that have more HP or is heavier? What about steering components?

Please list the components that are heavier on a 1 ton.

Actually on Fords there is a difference between the 250-350-450.
Different rear ends with difference size bearings and splines.
Page 40.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2018/Esb2018-F-250_F-350_F-450-SD-Pickups-Specs.pdf

[Cummins12V98]

" I really want to hear from the current 5th wheel owners on how you would approach this."


It's really easy. Take the RV's GVWR and take 25% of that weight so let's say 16K potential RV now that would make a potential 4K pin. So take the rear axle weight of let's say a RAM 3500 SRW with two passengers, hitch and tool box plus hitch at 3,600# or so. Is there still 4K of capacity between that # and the trucks RAWR?

Now on my Dually it weighed almost 4K on rear axle ready to tow so using my math my RV's GVWR was 21K so 25% of that is 5,250. Add that to 4k it's 5,250# 700# below my RAWR. BUT it's a good thing I allowed extra capacity because my RV weighs 23K with 25% pin and it puts me right at my trucks RAWR.

I was a bit over RAWR from carrying a complete SouthBend clutch, pressure plate and flywheel assembly.

[IdaD]

Paul Clancy wrote:
I’d look at taxes, insurance, strata rules etc. (All can make owning 3500 much more expensive). Then if a 2500hd was the affordable choice I’d buy that and add air bags because it’s the exact same truck as 3500hd srw -minus 1 leaf spring and a sticker . Hey - that’s what I did!!

Get out of here with that common sense.

[Paul_Clancy]

I’d look at taxes, insurance, strata rules etc. (All can make owning 3500 much more expensive). Then if a 2500hd was the affordable choice I’d buy that and add air bags because it’s the exact same truck as 3500hd srw -minus 1 leaf spring and a sticker . Hey - that’s what I did!!

[mitw44]

This situation really speaks to me for a few reasons. One, I have read on here many times to "choose the 5th wheel first, then choose the truck". In this case, the buyer did exactly that. He has picked out the exact unit, and will buy the truck second. So, in that case, how do you decide which truck? You can't really buy the 5th wheel, load it up, weigh it, then decide on the truck this way (I suppose you could with a very understanding truck dealer). Realistically, how do you take the numbers, and settle on truck with the right capacity? I really want to hear from the current 5th wheel owners on how you would approach this.

[MFL]

While there can sometimes be a reason to not buy a 1 ton, such as, lack of choices at dealer, compared to 3/4 T, much higher registration/insurance, can't park 1 ton on the street, or other foolish requirements, IMO, yes the new buyer should consider the 3500.

The new FW owner needs to buy a different truck anyway. Now if he already had a late model diesel 3/4 T, he would be a fool to trade for a new 1T SRW. We all know the late model 3/4 T will work/be easily made to work.

I think the OP did right to offer the 1 ton advice, in this case.

Jerry

[Cummins12V98]

So a 2013 and newer 250/2500 HD diesel 4x4 pickup with a tool box and hitch that combined weigh 400-500# lets say can still carry an additional 4K over the rear axle and still be within it's RAWR???

If you say yes like a friend always said "prove it".