Shopping for something that can be livable in the winter

[ODT]

I’m looking at buying something not for traveling but for pulling up to a shop or a job site for an extended period of time. Something you can keep heated in -30 temps. I wouldn’t necessarily need to hook up water in conditions like this. Just run the heat and electricity. This would just be something for 1 guy to sleep in and cook some meals. Maybe for months at a time. I know nothing about campers and am not brand biased. . Wanting to know what needs to be checked or what models are good or to stay away from. Modifications that should be done for winter living and the cost. Looking at a budget of somewhere in the neighborhood of $7500.

I saw a 30’ 2001 Keystone Zeppelin that was very reasonably priced and about what I wanted. Would this be a decent one to use?

Thanks

[BurbMan]

ARCTIC FOX is what you want. The Zeppelin sounds like a good deal for what it is, but you really need double pane windows to have any chance of staying warm. Good double pane windows are like $500 each so expensive to retrofit.

Look though THESE LISTINGS

[hilandfrog]

ODT wrote:
Ok. Thanks for your honest input guys. This is just not my area of expertise.
So a 2001 30’ Keystone Zeppelin isn’t a good winter choice. What is it worth though considering everything is in working order. Current owner started a remodel. Needs just a little trim and finish work, but mostly it’s good to go. Unfurnished (no bed or furniture). He wants $3500. Looked like a good deal to me, but I really don’t know how to say what it’s worth.

This is a good deal... depending on previous owners work.
One could spend another grand and buy some really nice things that'll make it "work" for your needs, primarily materials for insulating and heating.
electric heat pipe wrap all you can then cover it, inclose bottom of TT and have a way to heat, thinking about water on the ground so be ahead of cord placement.
In my experience NOT hooking up septic is the way to go... but have a way to dump when needed, a portable ( on wheels) can or have your stinky slinky ready to work, just keep tanks closed, RV antifreeze will be the best for toilet water IF you can replumb it for a gallon at a time.

HAVE FUN

-Repo

[bobndot]

A 30 ft unit with thin walls is going to struggle with an OEM furnace to keep it warm in those minus temps. This is why many people here that have done this already are suggesting a smaller unit for one person. That's the advantage you have...one person. Use it to your advantage, think smaller TT with a comfortable floorplan.
Couples in my CG using 30 ft TT's end up having to install wood burning stoves, large CAT heaters or gas fireplace style stoves for extra heat . They also constructed peaked metal roofs to shed snow to reduce the snow load on the TT with that much square foot area to hold snow.

2001 to 2018 is a long time in rv world. I can understand someone taking the time to redo an RV for personal use, many people do it, but to sell it and expect to be paid back for your labor on a unit with that age ? It would not be anything that I would consider to use as a cabin in snow country.

For resale purposes: To finish things off inside, furnishings will need to be bolted down and these items might have to be RV specific not home furnishings. Expect extra costs and certainly extra time involved in this.
Again, its not for me, but that's me and at the end of the day , its still a rebuilt 2001 K-stone and probably NOT rebuilt for snow country.

[ODT]

Ok. Thanks for your honest input guys. This is just not my area of expertise.
So a 2001 30’ Keystone Zeppelin isn’t a good winter choice. What is it worth though considering everything is in working order. Current owner started a remodel. Needs just a little trim and finish work, but mostly it’s good to go. Unfurnished (no bed or furniture). He wants $3500. Looked like a good deal to me, but I really don’t know how to say what it’s worth.

[tatest]

I would start by looking for a used Bigfoot in my price range. These are molded fiberglass shell, in three sizes (17.5, 21 and 25 foot) originally designed for year-round use. For permanent living alone, I would be inclined toward one of the 21-foot floor plans, although I know a few people who are quite satisfied with the space they have in 16-foot (and even 13-foot) models of other brand off these "eggshell" trailers.

Originally well built, but used, I think would be a better starting point for adaptation to extreme cold than any new low-cost lightweight trailer on the market. Keystone's Zeppelin line was originally one of their ultralights, when I first saw them in 2004, but the product may have changed since. There is a wide range of wall, floor and ceiling thicknesses, products built for the ultralight market may have walls as thin as an inch, less than 3/4 inch of insulation, and effectively no insulation in the floor. Not a good starting point for modification to winter use.

[gmw_photos]

Are you going to have a 50A pedestal to plug into ?

My bet is I could reasonably modify my 19' trailer to be used in extreme conditions. Among the mods I would consider if I knew I would have a 50A connection would be to install a high capacity industrial wall heater. A 240V heater can be had that is 4000W. I would hard wire that into the appropriate wiring solution to safely pull from the 50A outlet. Plugged in to a 50A supply, with proper insulation I "think" I could make this trailer livable. This is all just thinking out loud though. I'd want to run it by an EE before doing this.

Me personally, I don't need more than a 20' trailer for solo use.

[PDX_Zs]

nothing useful, other than to say you montana boys are incredibly tough.

I absolutely love the countryside and the people there, and have considered moving many times. But the winters just keep me away. Just too much snow for too long for this outdoor boy.

Best luck with your camping adventure.

🙂

[deltabravo]

ODT wrote:
I saw a 30’ 2001 Keystone Zeppelin that was very reasonably priced and about what I wanted. Would this be a decent one to use?

Not enough information to give a good answer.

Is it aluminum siding?
Does it have Thermal Pane Windows?
Heated and enclosed holding tanks?
Slideout?

I would not want a slideout for extreme cold temps.
I would not want aluminum siding in those conditions either.

[bobndot]

I (we) would often use TC's for snowmobiling in -30F temps.

I did the following and found things to work well as long as you're not attempting to use it with water.
I stayed in CG's with heated bathrooms/showers. I added a Curve electric flush (AA batteries) porta potty in the camper to use during the night.

Look for a non slide unit and make storm windows from 1" DOW pink board.
1. Cut 2 pieces of 1" DOW the same size of the window.
2. cut a square of any size you wish in both piece, so you can see out.
3. Place clear shrink wrap covering the first piece of DOW board then sandwich the second piece together with the first. This gives you 2" of thickness with a clear insulated square to see out of.
I just used pressure to hold it in place over the emergency window, wedged the DOW board between the handles. That way you can easily pop it out if need be. Use Velcro patches on the others to hold them in place.
Doing this worked well and shaved a lot of money off buying real custom storm windows. I experienced no condensation problems.
I cracked a roof vent 1" and that seemed to do the trick.



What I found doing this for 8 yrs or so for 20-30 days at a time :

At -20 , -30F you need the furnace and possibly an electric cube heater as a supplement for those cold spots that vary in camper to camper.
My Arctic Fox slide model with no dual pane windows used a lot of propane ( a 30# tank in 4 days) I added home made storm windows and that helped a lot but I don't remember exactly how much less propane was used. That unit had a 20,000 btu ducted furnace which struggled to maintain 65-68F. I had to close the slide at night to keep it warmer, which created another issue.
I had to climb onto the roof to clear snow from the top of the slide before I could close it. (slide topper awnings make it worse, do not use one in snow country, snow/ice gets trapped under them making it too difficult to remove)

I used that TC for 4 yrs then switched to a non slide Lance with storm windows with a non ducted 18,000 furnace and that used less propane. A 30# tank lasted 8-9 days maintaining 75F-78F. I used the DOW home made storm window over the emergency window (they don't make storms for emergency windows) An electric heater would heat that camper alone in temps around 25F plus.
At those -30F temps, its a good idea to insulate the propane regulator changeover valve so it does not freeze (gas flow will stop, carry a hair dryer :)) just wrap it with some insulation , you'll be fine.
You can ask your local gas company to set you up with 100# tanks or larger. It ends up being cheaper for bulk pricing, most of the other seasonal winter guys did it that way.

I placed a H.D. insulated curtain over the entrance door which really helped. Those doors are a major cold air leak source.

I installed 2x2 soft foam tiles on the floor to insulate the floor and that helped as well.

You can also add those interlocking 2x2 foam pads under the bed if you find it transferring cold. Use them anywhere you feel you need them, like under the dinette cushions etc.



Good luck, its doable :C

[rbpru]

I read an article about a fellow who wanted to winter over in Alaska in a small camper. He skirted it with foam insulation sealed it as best he could. As the snow fell he shoveled it up to the windows with snow. It looked like a tin topped igloo. He had electricity, burned an enormous amount of propane, survived unscathed and wrote an article on his adventure.

He also had family close by, so we was not isolated in case of trouble.

Can you do it, yes. Can you do it easily and cheaply no. You would be better served to park it and rent an apartment.

[westend]

For one person living, I'd suggest to envision the smallest size livable. A smaller rig will need less heat and is easier to reach comfortability.

A few years back, I was looking at the possibility of Wintering in the Bakken oil fields in ND, living in a trailer. I quickly discovered that my thoughts about the un-livability of nearly all TT's was well founded. At that point, I knew that extensive modification was necessary. I also knew that I wouldn't have the heart to tear apart even a fairly good rig.
I searched for something used in a convenient size that was cheap and had a good frame and running gear. I ended up with the trailer in my signature line. The thread that is linked explains my choices but Photobucket has ransomed the images.
Short summary: Tear down from inside, rewire, replumb, and insulate to the max using the dimensions available. Replace high electrical draw furnace with propane space heater. Replace windows with Low-E sliders. Use thermal breaks everywhere possible, the most being the wall paneling as that is where the most conductive heat loss appears as the studs can transfer quite a bit of cold to the interior.

I'm pretty happy with the results and the last task, insulating the waste tank and connected drain plumbing, is the only bit left undone. I have the materials here but my venture in ND never materialized. I'll get to it to finish my polar build some day.

If you plan to park for periods of a few months, having a tight skirting system is going to be the most benefit. Heating that space underneath with lamps or electric heaters will be the #1 thing you can do for comfort. Plumbing can be made to work although it will be an ongoing chore. Any gap in insulation or failure of heat tapes will need days of recovery to unthaw at the lower extreme temps. Waste will need to be dealt with and that situation is unknown.

Good luck with whatever you find. FWIW, my total costs for the modifications was about $4500. I did have a few things on hand. I also added a solar charging system and cost for that with 120V inverter was around $1500. Sale price of the Starcraft was $750. These totals line up with your budget but know that I spent nearly 6 months of daily work on the trailer.

[FrankShore]

And also get some Damp-Rid, they tend to work very well!

[SDcampowneroper]

TTs with less than 4 season capability can be made for 4 with some thought and work. You have to start with a preferably wood framed unit with enclosed underbelly, this was what we made into a -45 rig. From a 3 season . Wintered over in Ontario, Manitoba, Alberta. Never froze .

Dropped the belly, heattraced all water lines placed waterbed heaters on under the tanks. Power for them was run up to where we could either plug into 120 or inverter so that they could be powered parked or on the road as long as the truck was running. Screwed pvc 'brickmoulding ' to the frame so we could add 1 1/2 foam insulation then replaced the belly. if the axles hit the frame extension , so what. its pvc and coroplast. A little dent

Single pane windows were dealt with by cutting 1/4" plexiglass to fit, remove handles- trimming them with foam weatherstrip, held them in with turn mirror clips.

Refridgerator lower vents must be restricted when temps drop below freezing, foam pipe insulation works well, it is easily stuffed into the louvers, taken out when temps warm up. To keep the fridge working, the outdoor coils must be kept above freezing, below 100f or so. A daily chore dependent on weather,

It is critical to ventilate moisture, use a dehumidifier to reduce condensation in the walls and on windows.
Even the best touted mfgr 4 season units cant compare with this .

[FrankShore]

Take a look at this YouTube link to get an idea of what COLD oil field workers are up against in N. Dakota:

RV's In Extremely Cold Temperatures

Watch these videos for tips and hints as to cold weather in an RV.