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small all-electric travel trailer?

rv_bill-e
Explorer
Explorer
Need a TT no more than 21', will always have full hookups and never use propane. Does anyone make such a thing?
34 REPLIES 34

carringb
Explorer
Explorer
Huntindog wrote:
The 4 person Hot Tubs I am seeing online hold 210 gallons. That is 1680#


I think is correct for the one pictured. Since that pic, my sister commandeered it, and I upgraded to a fancier model that holds 240 gallons. I installed power leveling jacks directly under the middle of that room rated at 6,000 pounds, so the load of the hot-tub even with 4 users is not an issue.
2000 Ford E450 V10 VAN! 450,000+ miles
2014 ORV really big trailer
2015 Ford Focus ST

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
With a hot tub like that who would need a fireplace....

Huntindog
Explorer
Explorer
carringb wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
That seems like a pretty tall tale.... But then again the inflatable hot tub you use in your TT seems like an even taller tale


Well, I guess the magical propane fairies must follow me around from RV park to RV park to refill my tanks without me knowing. But I'm not sure how to explain the 4 person hot-tub that shows up anytime I park....

Sorry you guys all have trailers that can't hold heat.

Note: I do run propane heat also when it's teens or colder, because the furnace heats the basement and fire-place doesn't, and I did wake up once to no hot-water when it was 15F over night. It worked again after running the furnace for an hour. But mild-freezing nights it just isn't necessary. Oh and my trailer stays plenty warm into the negative teens, even without skirting or anything other special measures most people need.
The 4 person Hot Tubs I am seeing online hold 210 gallons. That is 1680#
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW

carringb
Explorer
Explorer
Huntindog wrote:
That seems like a pretty tall tale.... But then again the inflatable hot tub you use in your TT seems like an even taller tale


Well, I guess the magical propane fairies must follow me around from RV park to RV park to refill my tanks without me knowing. But I'm not sure how to explain the 4 person hot-tub that shows up anytime I park....

Sorry you guys all have trailers that can't hold heat.

Note: I do run propane heat also when it's teens or colder, because the furnace heats the basement and fire-place doesn't, and I did wake up once to no hot-water when it was 15F over night. It worked again after running the furnace for an hour. But mild-freezing nights it just isn't necessary. Oh and my trailer stays plenty warm into the negative teens, even without skirting or anything other special measures most people need.
2000 Ford E450 V10 VAN! 450,000+ miles
2014 ORV really big trailer
2015 Ford Focus ST

Huntindog
Explorer
Explorer
carringb wrote:
Gdetrailer wrote:
on
Your "comfortable" is most likely not the same "comfortable" for everyone.

There is no way that one single 1200W "fireplace" heater can easily provide enough heat to keep a "home like" temperature of say even 68F anywhere near 32F or below in 400 sq ft space.

I can tell you from experience rebuilding several trailers from 20ft to 26ft (170 sq ft to 221 sq ft) the ABSOLUTE best temp one single 1200W heater was able to get those trailers to was 58F with outside temps at or below 32F. OK for working in, but certainly not "comfortable" to live in. And for the record, neither trailer had slides...


Thanks for the assumptions, but youโ€™re wrong. I keep the trailer at 70 during the day. I do turn it down to 64 at night. Once the trailer is up to temp, the fireplace has zero trouble maintaining the temperature down into the low 20s. I do use the furnace for recovery in the morning, mostly because I like the warm floor. If I kept the fireplace temp steady overnight, the furnace wouldnโ€™t even turn on, but I like lower temps for sleeping
That seems like a pretty tall tale.... But then again the inflatable hot tub you use in your TT seems like an even taller tale
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW

valhalla360
Nomad III
Nomad III
Gdetrailer wrote:
My comments in red below..

valhalla360 wrote:
rv bill-e wrote:
Need a TT no more than 21', will always have full hookups and never use propane. Does anyone make such a thing?


Propane Appliances:
- Water heater...but most have an electric heating element for when on shore power.

While you can use the electric heating element in a RV water heater, you need to realize that it is a very limited wattage (1200W (approx 5100BTU) max) and at 120V. Gas burner is a much faster heat up because of higher BTU burner (approx 30,000 BTU) Because of this it will not heat or recover very fast and you will have a very short limited shower on 120V electric only.

- Stove...if insistent upon no propane, would be easy to swap out.

Not a lot of good options for replacing the gas stove and oven when on 120V 30A shore power only, Gas stove burners are 6,500 BTU each for two burners and one single 9000 BTU burner.

Going electric only basically that amounts to a single "hotplate" limited to 1200W (5100 BTU) or perhaps 700W microwave oven with low wattage heating element (once again limited to 1200W or 5100 BTU.)


- Fridge...propane fridges have no issue running on 120v AC. Many newer models are dedicated 12v DC fridges.

Yes, fridge can operate on 120V only and should do so automatically as long as you have shore power. However, it comes at a price, uses a 325W heating element which adds to your electrical load and at this point assuming that you only have 120V 30A shore power isn't going to help your cause..

- Furnace...Probably won't find one without a propane furnace but a some air/con units have a heat strip built in. That and a space heater should handle things in a small trailer unless it gets really cold.

Propane furnace is pretty much standard issue not going to find many RVs with an all electric furnace. Some RVs may have a heatpump (reversible A/C) but those also may use a gas furnace as backup heat for times when heatpump is not able to keep up (40F and below).

A/C units with electric heat strips are also limited to one 1200W heat strip and are not effective replacement for propane furnace.

However if you are not camping/living in cold weather that can be ignored. While you can use a electric portable space heater, they are also limited to 1200W (5100 BTU) and you will find that one single electric space heater will not cut it in cold weather use. RV gas furnaces range from 16,000 BTU (for small RVs) upwards to 30,000 BTU for large RVs.


But honestly, propane is really not much of an issue. If we stay on shore power we get a month out of a 20# bottle when it's fairly cold (lows in the mid 30's), so is there some reason you are trying to avoid propane?

X2!!!

If you are using propane for only the water heater and cooking on the stove a single 20 lb cylinder should last you quite a few months of camping. I can easily get 3yr-4yrs out of a 30lb cylinder because I don't camp in cold weather and rarely use furnace or even stove.

The furnace is the hardest user of propane so if you are planning to do a lot of cold weather camping this will be the issue..

Most RVs are from factory designed to have a 120V at 30A shore power connection which really limits your power usage. As long as you are setup as 120V 30A shore power this now becomes a real problem for you! 120V 30A means you only have 3600W to work with. 3600W is close to 15,300 BTUs of heat, you would need 3 portable 120V space heaters and that would fall short of even the smallest RV gas furnace!

In reality, you would be limited to pretty much only two 1200W (and that might trip your breaker) and a couple lower wattage devices running at any given time and would not have much power left over for other items.

You would have to continually manage your electrical devices all the time.. Doesn't sound like much fun to fuss with constantly turning things on and off..

To make a RV "all electric" you would really need to upgrade the electrical system to "50A" with actually is 4 wire "split phase" 240V/120V and would give you 12,000W (approx 51,000 BTUs) to work with.

Personally, unless you are having to hike in to your camping spot on foot for 20 miles I would suggest that you at least try using a 20 lb propane cylinder to run your water heater, stove and possibly limited furnace use and see how long that will last for you.

Alternately, you can have a bulk 100 lb tank brought in and have a propane distributor fill at the site and bill you later if you find you need or use a lot of propane and you are not moving your trailer..




Certainly, you are going to have to manage the power use with 30amp.
- I assume with a 20ft trailer, it's a single guy, so water heater recovery shouldn't be a big deal.
- I much prefer propane stove to electric but you can buy a small countertop model and retrofit it without great difficulty...again the 30amp will limit the output you can use.
- Fridge really isn't a big deal. Compared to the other items being discussed, it's really static in terms of demand.
- For really cold weather, yes, there is no beating a propane furnace. Heatpumps don't do well in really cold weather. But for more moderate stuff, even down to the mid 20's, in a small trailer, a space heater/heat strip will do surprisingly good job.

Basically, even using propane, you have to manage your electric usage on 30amp, so not having propane doesn't really change that and not many sub 20ft trailers will have 50amp. I assume the OP is not expecting household type living if he is dropping down to a 20ft trailer, so a little hassle is to be expected.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV

JIMNLIN
Explorer
Explorer
https://www.allencampermfg.com/up-to-29'-travel-trailers
Small rv maker who started out with truck campers till the TC market went away in the '80s ? then switched to TTs and later 5ers.
At one time they would build their OEM chassis to a customers interior needs. Check with them.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

carringb
Explorer
Explorer
Gdetrailer wrote:
on
Your "comfortable" is most likely not the same "comfortable" for everyone.

There is no way that one single 1200W "fireplace" heater can easily provide enough heat to keep a "home like" temperature of say even 68F anywhere near 32F or below in 400 sq ft space.

I can tell you from experience rebuilding several trailers from 20ft to 26ft (170 sq ft to 221 sq ft) the ABSOLUTE best temp one single 1200W heater was able to get those trailers to was 58F with outside temps at or below 32F. OK for working in, but certainly not "comfortable" to live in. And for the record, neither trailer had slides...


Thanks for the assumptions, but youโ€™re wrong. I keep the trailer at 70 during the day. I do turn it down to 64 at night. Once the trailer is up to temp, the fireplace has zero trouble maintaining the temperature down into the low 20s. I do use the furnace for recovery in the morning, mostly because I like the warm floor. If I kept the fireplace temp steady overnight, the furnace wouldnโ€™t even turn on, but I like lower temps for sleeping
2000 Ford E450 V10 VAN! 450,000+ miles
2014 ORV really big trailer
2015 Ford Focus ST

Terryallan
Explorer II
Explorer II
MarkTwain wrote:
rv bill-e wrote:
Need a TT no more than 21', will always have full hookups and never use propane. Does anyone make such a thing?

Just curious, what is the advantage of not using propane?


Only real advantage is not have to buy propane, and uses the CGs electric power. and that is great if you aren't on a perminate site, and have to pay your own power bill.

Another not so common reason is that some folks are pretty leery of propane appliances. The never used them befor, and don't trust them.
Terry & Shay
Coachman Apex 288BH.
2013 F150 XLT Off Road
5.0, 3.73
Lazy Campers

theoldwizard1
Explorer
Explorer
time2roll wrote:
Replace the standard air unit with a heat pump unit should work fine in most conditions.

Great idea, but use a residential heat pump !

Huntindog
Explorer
Explorer
rv bill-e wrote:
Need a TT no more than 21', will always have full hookups and never use propane. Does anyone make such a thing?

What temps are you likely to encounter?
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Replace the standard air unit with a heat pump unit should work fine in most conditions.

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
carringb wrote:
My trailer is nearly 400 square foot, and I run nearly all electric when I'm at full hookups. I have 30 amp service.

My water heater on all-electric is plenty for 2 people to take short showers back to back. Or one person can a long shower.

My electric fireplace keeps the trailer warm on its own, until it dips into the 20's. At this point I usually run the furnace because the ducting runs though the middle of the floor, so it feels like heated floors. But I also added a pass-through 20-amp plug to the rear cargo compartment, so I can run a 2nd space heater if needed. Usually I use the extra 20-amp to power the inflatable hot-tub, which I setup in the back room.

I have one 12-amp electric appliance in the kitchen. In this case an electric kettle. IF i run the fireplace and electric kettle at the same time, the 30-amp cord does get hot. So I try to avoid that. I doesn't trip the breaker however. I think the microwave must be on a load-shedding circuit with the water heater, since I've never tripped a breaker.

And I do dun both my fridges on electric.


Your "comfortable" is most likely not the same "comfortable" for everyone.

There is no way that one single 1200W "fireplace" heater can easily provide enough heat to keep a "home like" temperature of say even 68F anywhere near 32F or below in 400 sq ft space.

I can tell you from experience rebuilding several trailers from 20ft to 26ft (170 sq ft to 221 sq ft) the ABSOLUTE best temp one single 1200W heater was able to get those trailers to was 58F with outside temps at or below 32F. OK for working in, but certainly not "comfortable" to live in. And for the record, neither trailer had slides.

The 20ft trailer had a 16K BTU furnace and the 26ft trailer had a 24K BTU furnace.. There is no way on Earth that 1200W (which is equivalent to 5,100 PROPANE BTUs) can replace a propane furnace of higher BTU rating even though RV a RV furnace has a low efficiency (under 80%)..

Some folks don't mind living in 50F and less temps 24/7/365, I am however not one of those folks. I do like 70F-74F in the winter in my sticks and bricks and I don't bother camping in snow..

carringb
Explorer
Explorer
My trailer is nearly 400 square foot, and I run nearly all electric when I'm at full hookups. I have 30 amp service.

My water heater on all-electric is plenty for 2 people to take short showers back to back. Or one person can a long shower.

My electric fireplace keeps the trailer warm on its own, until it dips into the 20's. At this point I usually run the furnace because the ducting runs though the middle of the floor, so it feels like heated floors. But I also added a pass-through 20-amp plug to the rear cargo compartment, so I can run a 2nd space heater if needed. Usually I use the extra 20-amp to power the inflatable hot-tub, which I setup in the back room.

I have one 12-amp electric appliance in the kitchen. In this case an electric kettle. IF i run the fireplace and electric kettle at the same time, the 30-amp cord does get hot. So I try to avoid that. I doesn't trip the breaker however. I think the microwave must be on a load-shedding circuit with the water heater, since I've never tripped a breaker.

And I do dun both my fridges on electric.
2000 Ford E450 V10 VAN! 450,000+ miles
2014 ORV really big trailer
2015 Ford Focus ST