The China-Bomb debate Put to rest

[4X4Dodger]

Almost every week or more a thread appears with someone with a tire question. And just as predictably the China Bomb experts come out and start decrying all Chinese made tires.

Then usually they recommend MAXXIS tires. Maxxis are held in almost religious high regard by some here and they claim are NOT made in China.

This is usually followed by several others who also recommend Maxxis.

I personally have no doubt that Maxxis are good tires. As are Goodyears, Kumho, Cooper and many other brands. But I don't beleive they are SIGNIFICANTLY better than any other.

I have tried in many of these posts to bring some perspective on Chinese manufacturing which I know quite well from my professional life. I also try to bring some facts to bear on the subject.

So in an effort to arm myself with more facts I was doing some research on Tire Manufacturing in China and came across a very interesting article in a Tire Industry Publication Called Tire Review.

The chart below appears in that article clearly showing that MAXXIS is part of one of the largest tire manufacturers in China. Note also the inclusion of several western tire manufacturers who also manufacture in China.

From Tire Review Magazine 10/1/2015 David Shaw



Now for a little context: The article I cite was written about the tire Industry IN China ie it centered mostly on the Chinese Domestic market. It did cover the issue of exports also. But it's main focus was the Domestic Chinese market.

The article goes on to explain that there is currently a shakedown taking place in the Chinese Tire industry with some new US tariffs being applied (due to alleged Dumping) and new regulations on the industry by the Government of China. Here is a quote:

"U.S. duties aside, probably the biggest factor in the Chinese tire industry crisis is the slew of new legislation being issued by the Chinese government and managed through the CRIA. China is set to become the most-heavily regulated country in the world for tire manufacturing."

and...According to the article China dominates the GLOBAL market for tires.

I hope this takes a few steps towards normalizing the debate on this site about China Bombs and how great Maxxis are.

The FACT is that some great tires are made by many companies in China, by Chinese, American and European companies.

So please lets just stop the China Bomb rants and stop encouraging folks who have tire questions to replace all the tires that came on their new trailers. It's a waste of money and there is no evidence of any kind that it is either necessary or desirable.

As you can see those revered MAXXIS are owned by a Chinese firm and are manufactured in China as well as some other Asian countries.

[gmw_photos]

rbpru wrote:
Just the fact that we live I such a litigious society, where a lawsuit can easily erase short term profits; would tell you the TT industry has a fair amount of confidence in the one million ST tires the put on the road each year.

"risk management" is a modern day way of life for corporations. I am retired from a major corporation that is a $4B giant. We had an entire department of folks assigned to do nothing but risk management.

The company weighed the options of "failure of product possibly causing harm" vs the "potential profits by using lesser quality product".

The end results might not be exactly what an outsider might assume.

[JIMNLIN]

Once again I repeat: To those of you who believe that LT tires are fundamentally or intrinsically better than comparable ST Tires...Where are your sources? So far No One has posted a single article, Rule, Law or testing data that supports that argument. Meanwhile I have posted many with easily googled references.

* This post was edited 06/05/16 11:15pm by 4X4Dodger *

Nice try but what you posted is just your opinion and shows no facts about testing prodedures.
You must be a new person to the website as the answer to your opinions/questions of the ST vs LT debate has already been brought to the forum attention and put to rest several years ago by SeniorGNC very articulate summations that shows the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test per 49CFR 571.109/119/139 tire requirements.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/23225970.cfm.
........................................................

The ST vs LT debate isn't about LT tires used in a tow vehicle position but rather when used in a trailer position.
We don't need a individual or a tire company or a tire chain store telling us which tire is best.
The simple way is do a google which leads us to many different trailering websites. Then pay attention to which tire type has the least problems in the trailering on all those different forums at that site.

In the mean time the ST vs LT debate rages on ......for some folks.

[rbpru]

Just the fact that we live I such a litigious society, where a lawsuit can easily erase short term profits; would tell you the TT industry has a fair amount of confidence in the one million ST tires the put on the road each year.

[gmw_photos]

Dodger, just to keep this real, and on topic, consider the following in regards to your comments. You state the above regulation is too long to post here. It is indeed a long document. ( dot 49 cfr ).
I skimmed down thru it, and found the following statements/paragraphs interesting. Quoting directly from the document:

"The TRA asked that special-use tires such as ST, FI, and 8-12 rim diameter and below tires (typically used on smaller, towed trailers) be excluded from FMVSS No. 139..... "

and it goes on in another paragraph:

"Therefore, the agency has decided to exclude bias, ST, FI, and 8-12 rim diameter tires from FMVSS No. 139. These tires, however, will continue to be covered by FMVSS No. 109 and 119. FMVSS No. 109 will not be deleted."

....it is a lengthy document. You might find it interesting reading, if you read all of it.

[GrandpaKip]

4X4Dodger wrote:
I think my last post (above) scared off those LT Cheerleaders. LOL

But my genuine guess is it didn't, they just don't know how to respond to the facts as described by the NHTSA.

Why, oh why, would you ever let facts get in the way of a good argument???

[gmw_photos]

4X4Dodger wrote:
I think my last post (above) scared off those LT Cheerleaders. LOL

But my genuine guess is it didn't, they just don't know how to respond to the facts as described by the NHTSA.

Dodger....you're good for the local economy 🙂 ....because you'll be going back to get tires more often, you give your local tire store employees a job mounting tires. Also contributes to the local sales tax 😛
Good job 😉 ....keep it up :B

Have a safe summer of traveling all y'all.

[Arcamper]

4X4Dodger wrote:
I think my last post (above) scared off those LT Cheerleaders. LOL

But my genuine guess is it didn't, they just don't know how to respond to the facts as described by the NHTSA.

Not scared off, was out having my LT's pulled off and ST's put on my trailer. Now I am trying to find a Ford 6.0 diesel to put in the place of my 6.7 Cummins because some say it's a good engine too. Then I am putting ST's on my truck because it sounds like they are better than anything else out there. 😉

Will let you know how it all works out.....

[4X4Dodger]

I think my last post (above) scared off those LT Cheerleaders. LOL

But my genuine guess is it didn't, they just don't know how to respond to the facts as described by the NHTSA.

[4X4Dodger]

Here is information from the NHTSA and 49CFR Rulmaking regarding ALL TIRES for light Vehicles (including trailers under 10,000lbs gvwr.

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

49 CFR Part 571
Docket No. NHTSA-03-15400
RIN 2127-AI54
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards; Tires

AGENCY: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), Department of Transportation.

ACTION: Final Rule.

SUMMARY: The Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability, and Documentation Act of 2000 mandates that we conduct a rulemaking proceeding to revise and update our safety performance requirements for tires. In response, we are establishing new and more stringent tire performance requirements that will apply to all new tires for use on light vehicles, i.e., those vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less, except motorcycles and low speed vehicles

First: B. Highlights of the Final Rule

requirements that apply to all new radial tires for use on passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses and trailers that have a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds) or less and that are manufactured after 1975, and to all new passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses and trailers that have a GVWR of 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds) or less. The requirements are fully summarized in section VI.A. of this document.

Meaning: ST and LT Tires meet the same Safety and MFG Standards.

Read on: think your LT tires are so much better than ST?

2. Safety Problems Associated with Tires

Essentially, the size of the tire problem has remained the same over the last eight years. With the increasing sales of light trucks, and the fact that light trucks have more tire problems than passenger cars, the problem has shifted more toward light trucks and away from passenger cars. As discussed in the NPRM, several crash files contain information on "general" tire related problems that precipitate crashes. The more recent of these files are the National Automotive Sampling System - Crashworthiness Data System (NASS-CDS)(9) and the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS).(10)

NASS-CDS data for 1995 through 1998(11) indicate that there are an estimated 23,464 tow-away crashes per year coded by the NASS investigators (relying on the police report of the crash) as having been caused by blowouts or flat tires. Based on that estimate, about one-half of one percent of all crashes are caused by these tire problems. The rate of blowout-caused crashes for light trucks (0.99 percent) is more than three times the rate of those crashes for passenger cars (0.31 percent). Blowouts cause a much higher proportion of rollover crashes (4.81) than non-rollover crashes (0.28), and more than three times the rate in light trucks (6.88 percent) than in passenger cars (1.87 percent).

FARS data for 1999 through 2001 show that 1.10 percent of all light vehicles in fatal crashes were coded by investigators as having had tire problems. Light trucks had slightly higher rates of tire problems (1.34 percent) than passenger cars (0.92 percent). The annual average number of vehicles with tire problems in FARS was 528 (255 passenger cars and 273 light trucks). End Quote

The rule is too long to post here but here is the link to the entire rule. It might make uneasy reading for those of you who believe that ST tires are something of a panacea for all things ST related.

49CFR NHTSA

A door sticker from a manufacturer means little or nothing in terms of which tires are better for a given vehicle. The only thing the trailer manufacturer has to comply with is that the tires be rated for the intended GVWR. In reality they may not be the best choice.

Once again I repeat: To those of you who believe that LT tires are fundamentally or intrinsically better than comparable ST Tires...Where are your sources? So far No One has posted a single article, Rule, Law or testing data that supports that argument. Meanwhile I have posted many with easily googled references.

[msgtord]

After reading all 11 pages of this thread and consuming allot of good information I have made a decision.

I should have got up early and went to church.:)

[jerem0621]

phone man wrote:
I towed for years on China Bombs and unheard of brand names. I bought Maxxis tires after reading so many good things about them. This is a properly inflated less than 2 year old Maxxis tire.


I'm going LT tires next time.

So how long did you drive on that tire? I mean did it go boom and you immediately pulled over...was there a boom? Or did it just go flat and you drove on it for miles and miles...

Thanks

[allen8106]

Lynnmor wrote:
How's this for information?

I had the exact same issue on a brand new TT with less than 500 miles on the tires. Don't remember the tire brand though.

[allen8106]

delete

[Ohio_Engineer]

Here is an example of a confirmed Run Low Flex Failure


and another confirmed RLOFF


and another



Sorry for confusing discussion with some facts.

[Ohio_Engineer]

phone man wrote:
I towed for years on China Bombs and unheard of brand names. I bought Maxxis tires after reading so many good things about them. This is a properly inflated less than 2 year old Maxxis tire.


I'm going LT tires next time.

Sorry but I think this is a Run Low Flex failure. Would need to see close up of cord ends to be sure or to rule out.
If any cords look like this

it is run low flex.
Run low flex are the result of significant air loss while the tire continues to be driven down the road. can happen in 5 to 20 min depending on rate of air loss, load and speed.