โMay-27-2016 10:36 PM
โJun-11-2016 12:28 PM
Irelands child wrote:
First of all, to the OP - this subject is not nor ever will be put to rest - or at least not by any declaration here or any other RV forum. Secondly, much of the information presented is anecdotal, hearsay or just plain wrong. Am I an expert - not a chance. Do I like 'China Bombs'? No, there is just too much evidence, real and again, anecdotal, that there are manufacturing shortcuts, hence failures on these very lightly made, soft sidewall tires. Is my 'evidence' supported by real fact? Nope, not really except that ST tires have a super soft sidewall and even the tread area is soft and not very resistant to outside contributing sources of failures. Yes, I have physically 'tested' a heavy, 50 pound LT (Michelin) next to a 35 pound ST (Tow Max), both 235/85-16 side by side. Do I drive fast - not really though I do travel at 70 or so when on Western high limit Interstates just to kinda keep up with traffic. It's also often in the 90+ degree range West of the Mississippi. For sure I couldn't do that with an ST tire as they build to 130 degrees and often over 100psig on our 12,000 pound, 38 foot 5th wheel. The LTs - well they seldom get more then a few degrees higher then ambient and have never gone beyond 90psig build up, all temp and pressure numbers as measured by my TST TPMS. As far as 'top' speed - those current LTs on the trailer are fine to 106mph, the same as my truck. I'll never drive that speed, but it sure is nice to have that speed cushion. Then when all is said, there are those that like the TBC importer's Chinese Sailun, G rated tire which is overkill for most trailers - but they do seem to survive if you have wheels that will handle 110psig.
All of this - it's what you are comfortable using. If you tow many thousands of miles, any low end Chinese made OEM tires may not give you that warm feeling. If you tow fifty to hundred miles a few times a year, or use your RV at a seasonal CG as many do, those 'Bombs' will probably serve you well.
โJun-11-2016 12:28 PM
โJun-11-2016 12:20 PM
gmw photos wrote:
Dodger, just to keep this real, and on topic, consider the following in regards to your comments. You state the above regulation is too long to post here. It is indeed a long document. ( dot 49 cfr ).
I skimmed down thru it, and found the following statements/paragraphs interesting. Quoting directly from the document:
"The TRA asked that special-use tires such as ST, FI, and 8-12 rim diameter and below tires (typically used on smaller, towed trailers) be excluded from FMVSS No. 139..... "
and it goes on in another paragraph:
"Therefore, the agency has decided to exclude bias, ST, FI, and 8-12 rim diameter tires from FMVSS No. 139. These tires, however, will continue to be covered by FMVSS No. 109 and 119. FMVSS No. 109 will not be deleted."
....it is a lengthy document. You might find it interesting reading, if you read all of it.
โJun-11-2016 12:15 PM
Arcamper wrote:4X4Dodger wrote:
I think my last post (above) scared off those LT Cheerleaders. LOL
But my genuine guess is it didn't, they just don't know how to respond to the facts as described by the NHTSA.
Not scared off, was out having my LT's pulled off and ST's put on my trailer. Now I am trying to find a Ford 6.0 diesel to put in the place of my 6.7 Cummins because some say it's a good engine too. Then I am putting ST's on my truck because it sounds like they are better than anything else out there. ๐
Will let you know how it all works out.....
โJun-11-2016 08:50 AM
โJun-11-2016 07:54 AM
โJun-11-2016 07:49 AM
โJun-11-2016 06:54 AM
โJun-11-2016 04:26 AM
jerem0621 wrote:phone man wrote:
I towed for years on China Bombs and unheard of brand names. I bought Maxxis tires after reading so many good things about them. This is a properly inflated less than 2 year old Maxxis tire.
I'm going LT tires next time.
So how long did you drive on that tire? I mean did it go boom and you immediately pulled over...was there a boom? Or did it just go flat and you drove on it for miles and miles...
Left San Antonio in the morning after checking my cold air pressure. Drove about 70 miles on interstate highway at 62 mph, heard a pop, looked at my wife, guy pulled up beside me and yelled I had lost a tire, pulled over. From pop to pull over less than 2 minutes. Lost the tire and 3K in damages to trailer.
Thanks
โJun-10-2016 05:49 PM
โJun-10-2016 05:03 PM
4X4Dodger wrote:
Here is information from the NHTSA and 49CFR Rulmaking regarding ALL TIRES for light Vehicles (including trailers under 10,000lbs gvwr.
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
49 CFR Part 571
Docket No. NHTSA-03-15400
RIN 2127-AI54
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards; Tires
AGENCY: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), Department of Transportation.
ACTION: Final Rule.
SUMMARY: The Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability, and Documentation Act of 2000 mandates that we conduct a rulemaking proceeding to revise and update our safety performance requirements for tires. In response, we are establishing new and more stringent tire performance requirements that will apply to all new tires for use on light vehicles, i.e., those vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less, except motorcycles and low speed vehicles
First: B. Highlights of the Final Rule
requirements that apply to all new radial tires for use on passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses and trailers that have a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds) or less and that are manufactured after 1975, and to all new passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses and trailers that have a GVWR of 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds) or less. The requirements are fully summarized in section VI.A. of this document.
Meaning: ST and LT Tires meet the same Safety and MFG Standards.
Read on: think your LT tires are so much better than ST?
2. Safety Problems Associated with Tires
Essentially, the size of the tire problem has remained the same over the last eight years. With the increasing sales of light trucks, and the fact that light trucks have more tire problems than passenger cars, the problem has shifted more toward light trucks and away from passenger cars. As discussed in the NPRM, several crash files contain information on "general" tire related problems that precipitate crashes. The more recent of these files are the National Automotive Sampling System - Crashworthiness Data System (NASS-CDS)(9) and the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS).(10)
NASS-CDS data for 1995 through 1998(11) indicate that there are an estimated 23,464 tow-away crashes per year coded by the NASS investigators (relying on the police report of the crash) as having been caused by blowouts or flat tires. Based on that estimate, about one-half of one percent of all crashes are caused by these tire problems. The rate of blowout-caused crashes for light trucks (0.99 percent) is more than three times the rate of those crashes for passenger cars (0.31 percent). Blowouts cause a much higher proportion of rollover crashes (4.81) than non-rollover crashes (0.28), and more than three times the rate in light trucks (6.88 percent) than in passenger cars (1.87 percent).
FARS data for 1999 through 2001 show that 1.10 percent of all light vehicles in fatal crashes were coded by investigators as having had tire problems. Light trucks had slightly higher rates of tire problems (1.34 percent) than passenger cars (0.92 percent). The annual average number of vehicles with tire problems in FARS was 528 (255 passenger cars and 273 light trucks). End Quote
The rule is too long to post here but here is the link to the entire rule. It might make uneasy reading for those of you who believe that ST tires are something of a panacea for all things ST related.
49CFR NHTSA
A door sticker from a manufacturer means little or nothing in terms of which tires are better for a given vehicle. The only thing the trailer manufacturer has to comply with is that the tires be rated for the intended GVWR. In reality they may not be the best choice.
Once again I repeat: To those of you who believe that LT tires are fundamentally or intrinsically better than comparable ST Tires...Where are your sources? So far No One has posted a single article, Rule, Law or testing data that supports that argument. Meanwhile I have posted many with easily googled references.
โJun-10-2016 04:37 PM
4X4Dodger wrote:
..........
Clip......
Essentially, the size of the tire problem has remained the same over the last eight years. With the increasing sales of light trucks, and the fact that light trucks have more tire problems than passenger cars, the problem has shifted more toward light trucks and away from passenger cars........
Clip.....
โJun-10-2016 08:59 AM
โJun-10-2016 07:40 AM
4X4Dodger wrote:
Here is information from the NHTSA and 49CFR Rulmaking regarding ALL TIRES for light Vehicles (including trailers under 10,000lbs gvwr.
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
49 CFR Part 571
Docket No. NHTSA-03-15400
RIN 2127-AI54
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards; Tires
AGENCY: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), Department of Transportation.
ACTION: Final Rule.
SUMMARY: The Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability, and Documentation Act of 2000 mandates that we conduct a rulemaking proceeding to revise and update our safety performance requirements for tires. In response, we are establishing new and more stringent tire performance requirements that will apply to all new tires for use on light vehicles, i.e., those vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less, except motorcycles and low speed vehicles
First: B. Highlights of the Final Rule
requirements that apply to all new radial tires for use on passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses and trailers that have a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds) or less and that are manufactured after 1975, and to all new passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses and trailers that have a GVWR of 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds) or less. The requirements are fully summarized in section VI.A. of this document.
Meaning: ST and LT Tires meet the same Safety and MFG Standards.
Read on: think your LT tires are so much better than ST?
2. Safety Problems Associated with Tires
Essentially, the size of the tire problem has remained the same over the last eight years. With the increasing sales of light trucks, and the fact that light trucks have more tire problems than passenger cars, the problem has shifted more toward light trucks and away from passenger cars. As discussed in the NPRM, several crash files contain information on "general" tire related problems that precipitate crashes. The more recent of these files are the National Automotive Sampling System - Crashworthiness Data System (NASS-CDS)(9) and the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS).(10)
NASS-CDS data for 1995 through 1998(11) indicate that there are an estimated 23,464 tow-away crashes per year coded by the NASS investigators (relying on the police report of the crash) as having been caused by blowouts or flat tires. Based on that estimate, about one-half of one percent of all crashes are caused by these tire problems. The rate of blowout-caused crashes for light trucks (0.99 percent) is more than three times the rate of those crashes for passenger cars (0.31 percent). Blowouts cause a much higher proportion of rollover crashes (4.81) than non-rollover crashes (0.28), and more than three times the rate in light trucks (6.88 percent) than in passenger cars (1.87 percent).
FARS data for 1999 through 2001 show that 1.10 percent of all light vehicles in fatal crashes were coded by investigators as having had tire problems. Light trucks had slightly higher rates of tire problems (1.34 percent) than passenger cars (0.92 percent). The annual average number of vehicles with tire problems in FARS was 528 (255 passenger cars and 273 light trucks). End Quote
The rule is too long to post here but here is the link to the entire rule. It might make uneasy reading for those of you who believe that ST tires are something of a panacea for all things ST related.
49CFR NHTSA
A door sticker from a manufacturer means little or nothing in terms of which tires are better for a given vehicle. The only thing the trailer manufacturer has to comply with is that the tires be rated for the intended GVWR. In reality they may not be the best choice.
Once again I repeat: To those of you who believe that LT tires are fundamentally or intrinsically better than comparable ST Tires...Where are your sources? So far No One has posted a single article, Rule, Law or testing data that supports that argument. Meanwhile I have posted many with easily googled references.
โJun-10-2016 07:27 AM
JIMNLIN wrote:
... In the mean time the ST vs LT debate rages on ......for some folks.