The new ST tires. Fact or fiction (marketing)

[Huntindog]

It is good that some manufacturers seem to be stepping up the quality of their ST tire offerings.. And even better that many of the proponents of ST tires on this forum are welcoming these new tires with open arms.... Though I must point out that since they are now so happy about this, that they must recognize the inferiorority of the previous tires... Despite many past statements to the contrary.

Now to the point of this post: Years back I studied the govt. testing standards for LT tires vs ST tires. It was a real eye opener and cemented my decision to pass on ST tires.

I am not interested on doing that again. It is a very hard read, and takes a lot of time. And having found my tire solution, I am not interested in go back to STs.

The question I have is about the new Higher speed ratings. Are these tires tested to to that by the govt? I am not so sure. Having an ST tire designation may limit at least some of the testing to the 65 MPH speed limit for ST tires. I doubt the regs have been changed because of these new tires.

If they are not being tested to the new ratings, then it is just marketing..... Again!

I tend to believe the worst as these new tires still have a very low price point. That was one of the primary reasons for the ST.
"The ST tire is an affordable solution for your trailer tire needs"
IOW, a cheap tire that is good enough.

Premium materials and construction cost money and should raise the price... Yet these new tires are still much less that half the price of a premium LT tire.

I smell a rat.

If I were an ST tire fan, I would want to know the truth.

[DinTulsa]

RedRocket204 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
But even with that STs have generally not held up for too many people.

That comment I can't agree with. Sure, there have been many reports of ST tire failures... but to equate that with generally not held up for too many people is very misleading. You do not have the numbers in relation to people who have not had ST tire failures.

People generally do not come on forums and complain about great ST tire service. 😉

[RedRocket204]

Huntindog wrote:
But even with that STs have generally not held up for too many people.

That comment I can't agree with. Sure, there have been many reports of ST tire failures... but to equate that with generally not held up for too many people is very misleading. You do not have the numbers in relation to people who have not had ST tire failures.

People generally do not come on forums and complain about great ST tire service. 😉

[jadatis]

The old ST tires where calculated in maximum load for more deflection allowed ,because calculated for 65m/h. Sometimes on the old also N speedrated written.
Because of more deflection allowed for lower speed , the maximum load was higher the same sise tire with same AT-pressure for Q speedrated ( 160km99m/h).
So I daubt if the new ST Endurance is calculated in maximum load fpr N=140km/87m/h, suspect them also to be calculated for 65m/h.
Once saw link on other forum to pressure/loadcapacity list of endurance, but cant find it anymore.

So if you would give the ST the same deflection of Q-speedrated they should have the same savety .

[Huntindog]

CapriRacer wrote:
Allow me to muddy the waters some more:

ST tires carry 20% more load than a comparable LT tire. So saying there is a difference in government mandated testing is misleading, unless you account for that difference.

Load range for load range and size for size you are correct.
But even with that STs have generally not held up for too many people.
The load rating issue is easily overcome with a change in size or load range in most cases... In other words, if you really wanna make the swap, that won't stop you. If you are looking for an excuse to not do it. That will work as well as any other... And it sounds better than "I don't wanna spend the money".

[Huntindog]

DinTulsa wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

rbpru wrote:
As always the profound lack of understanding of the ST tire raises its head.

The ST was designed; with stiffer side walls, with UV resistant compounds, with a tread designed for straight pull and less rolling resistance and a service speed of 65 mph.

The were and still are designed for trailer use. Horse trailers, utility trailer, travel trailers and about any other type trailer you pull down the road. That has been their intended use decades as they were the replacement for the "P" type tire used previously.

For several years there was a controversy because the tire manufacturers switched to far-east production and suffered a loss quality control. That issue seems to have past and there was never any negative reports by the DOT. That does not keep folks from complaining and blaming every tire failure on foreign manufacturing.

Once again the industry has recognized a need for an improved tire and manufactures are responding.

Rest assured that once manufacturing is perfected they too will be built by cheaper labor.

No lack of understanding here. And I never once blamed the country of origin. In fact on the many sets of ST tires I owned I never even looked to see where they were made. I just don't think that is a problem.

But the ST tire did not come about to replace the "p" tires which were NOT commonly used in trailer service.

Rather they were to replace more expensive LT tires.

This is a quote used by many in the industry
" The ST tire is an affordable tire solution for your trailering needs"

Sounds good doesn't it?
Note what it doesn't say.
That it is a better tire than the LTs that were used before.

Said another way; " The ST tire is a cheaper tire that is good enough for trailer use"

This is a far more accurate statement.
All of the so called benefits of the ST tires are not tested for in the govt. regs.
In fact the ST vs LT tire testing standards are/were vastly different. The LT must past far more stringent tests over all.
As for the special needs of trailer tires.. There is only one test that could apply to that. the bead unseating force. Those tests are identical for both STs and LTs.

I particularly like the shallower tread for cooler running of ST tires claim. That is a joke. First off, heat is not a big problem as trailer tires spend most all of their time simply rolling down the road following the TVs tires which do most of the work.
Next it is common knowledge in the tire world that shallow tread means less puncture resistance, and less traction (more hydroplaning) What shallow tread DOES mean to the manufacturer is less rubber used in the tire, and a cheaper cost. Then there is the claim that fewer plies with thicker cords are used for the same reasons... It is also cheaper to make it using this method.
Of course saying it that way would not sound good when one is trying to sell a tire. So a positive spin is put on it. Also known as marketing.

This works for many as most trailer tires age out far before the tread wears out. And most consumers are really sensitive to cost.
They simply cannot justify paying LT prices for a TT tire that only gets used 2-3 times a year for far less than a 1000 miles a year, and doesn't carry passengers. Vs. their TV tires which are used everyday for tens of thousands of miles a year and do carry people.

So if a cheaper ST tire meets your needs, it is perfectly legal to use them on your trailer. It is also perfectly legal to use LTs on your trailer.
However it is NOT legal to use ST tires on your TV!!
That fact alone speaks volumes.

You have spent a lot of time on this thread just listening to yourself talk. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with you on the fact that LT are built to a better standard than ST tires. But, take my situation for example. I'm leaving in a week on a 2000 mile trip, I need new tires today. I don't have time for a trailer shop to move my axles out to fit 16' tires, 15" LT's won't carry the weight of my rv. Not only that, the cost to move my axles, new 16" wheels and 1000+ dollars for LT tires make the transition cost prohibitive. I plan to keep my rv for 8-9 more years prior to upgrading to a 5th wheel. I can buy a new set of Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires every 3 years until I upgrade my trailer and still be under the cost of the one time LT tire upgrade. Not only that, I will have to buy another set of LT tires after 5-6 years, unless LT tires are not subject to age. I figure you will argue and say that Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires won't last 3 years due to being ST tires and being new, but there is a proven track record on the Maxxis that says they will. So I'll stick with the better quality ST tires and keep rolling down the road for now. When I upgrade to a larger unit that can handle 16" tires from the factory, I'll make the transition to LT.

If you are trying to insult me...You gotta do better than that.

Weather or not you decide to make the LT tire upgrade is totally up to you. Weather or not you decide to actually read the testing standards is your decision as well.... As for your reasoning for staying with STs...Keep in mind that one blowout can change the financial picture.
Damage to the rig in the thousands of dollars is not uncommon.
Not to mention a trip being ruined from it

Your money, your choice.

[Atlee]

The Endurance tires that came OEM on my new Jayco 23RB are load range D. I don't think Endurance tires even come in LR C.

My endurance tires which are ST208/75R15 LR D, have 2 plies of polyester, 2 plies of steel, and 2 plies of nylon in the tread. They have 2 plies of polyester in the side walls.

JIMNLIN wrote:


If I was going to use a ST tire it would go with one of the new gen higher speed rated tires like the Provider or the Endurance or the Carlisle HD in that order.

[JIMNLIN]

Not only that, I will have to buy another set of LT tires after 5-6 years, unless LT tires are not subject to age.

Why would you do that. LT tire makers advertize replacement age from 7-10 years depending on brand.
ST from 3-5 years depending on brand.

I figure you will argue and say that Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires won't last 3 years due to being ST tires and being new, but there is a proven track record on the Maxxis that says they will.

We have over 30+ rv owners who have reported issues with their Maxxis ST8008. Not a very good track record just on this website.
I see similar complaints on other RV and non rv trailering websites. Maxxis is a bit dated with their 65 max speed and not all sizes have the nylon cap under the tread yet.... which may be a reason for some Maxxis tire complaints.
If I was going to use a ST tire it would go with one of the new gen higher speed rated tires like the Provider or the Endurance or the Carlisle HD in that order.

[DinTulsa]

Huntindog wrote:

rbpru wrote:
As always the profound lack of understanding of the ST tire raises its head.

The ST was designed; with stiffer side walls, with UV resistant compounds, with a tread designed for straight pull and less rolling resistance and a service speed of 65 mph.

The were and still are designed for trailer use. Horse trailers, utility trailer, travel trailers and about any other type trailer you pull down the road. That has been their intended use decades as they were the replacement for the "P" type tire used previously.

For several years there was a controversy because the tire manufacturers switched to far-east production and suffered a loss quality control. That issue seems to have past and there was never any negative reports by the DOT. That does not keep folks from complaining and blaming every tire failure on foreign manufacturing.

Once again the industry has recognized a need for an improved tire and manufactures are responding.

Rest assured that once manufacturing is perfected they too will be built by cheaper labor.

No lack of understanding here. And I never once blamed the country of origin. In fact on the many sets of ST tires I owned I never even looked to see where they were made. I just don't think that is a problem.

But the ST tire did not come about to replace the "p" tires which were NOT commonly used in trailer service.

Rather they were to replace more expensive LT tires.

This is a quote used by many in the industry
" The ST tire is an affordable tire solution for your trailering needs"

Sounds good doesn't it?
Note what it doesn't say.
That it is a better tire than the LTs that were used before.

Said another way; " The ST tire is a cheaper tire that is good enough for trailer use"

This is a far more accurate statement.
All of the so called benefits of the ST tires are not tested for in the govt. regs.
In fact the ST vs LT tire testing standards are/were vastly different. The LT must past far more stringent tests over all.
As for the special needs of trailer tires.. There is only one test that could apply to that. the bead unseating force. Those tests are identical for both STs and LTs.

I particularly like the shallower tread for cooler running of ST tires claim. That is a joke. First off, heat is not a big problem as trailer tires spend most all of their time simply rolling down the road following the TVs tires which do most of the work.
Next it is common knowledge in the tire world that shallow tread means less puncture resistance, and less traction (more hydroplaning) What shallow tread DOES mean to the manufacturer is less rubber used in the tire, and a cheaper cost. Then there is the claim that fewer plies with thicker cords are used for the same reasons... It is also cheaper to make it using this method.
Of course saying it that way would not sound good when one is trying to sell a tire. So a positive spin is put on it. Also known as marketing.

This works for many as most trailer tires age out far before the tread wears out. And most consumers are really sensitive to cost.
They simply cannot justify paying LT prices for a TT tire that only gets used 2-3 times a year for far less than a 1000 miles a year, and doesn't carry passengers. Vs. their TV tires which are used everyday for tens of thousands of miles a year and do carry people.

So if a cheaper ST tire meets your needs, it is perfectly legal to use them on your trailer. It is also perfectly legal to use LTs on your trailer.
However it is NOT legal to use ST tires on your TV!!
That fact alone speaks volumes.

You have spent a lot of time on this thread just listening to yourself talk. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with you on the fact that LT are built to a better standard than ST tires. But, take my situation for example. I'm leaving in a week on a 2000 mile trip, I need new tires today. I don't have time for a trailer shop to move my axles out to fit 16' tires, 15" LT's won't carry the weight of my rv. Not only that, the cost to move my axles, new 16" wheels and 1000+ dollars for LT tires make the transition cost prohibitive. I plan to keep my rv for 8-9 more years prior to upgrading to a 5th wheel. I can buy a new set of Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires every 3 years until I upgrade my trailer and still be under the cost of the one time LT tire upgrade. Not only that, I will have to buy another set of LT tires after 5-6 years, unless LT tires are not subject to age. I figure you will argue and say that Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires won't last 3 years due to being ST tires and being new, but there is a proven track record on the Maxxis that says they will. So I'll stick with the better quality ST tires and keep rolling down the road for now. When I upgrade to a larger unit that can handle 16" tires from the factory, I'll make the transition to LT.

[CapriRacer]

Allow me to muddy the waters some more:

ST tires carry 20% more load than a comparable LT tire. So saying there is a difference in government mandated testing is misleading, unless you account for that difference.

[Huntindog]

rbpru wrote:
As always the profound lack of understanding of the ST tire raises its head.

The ST was designed; with stiffer side walls, with UV resistant compounds, with a tread designed for straight pull and less rolling resistance and a service speed of 65 mph.

The were and still are designed for trailer use. Horse trailers, utility trailer, travel trailers and about any other type trailer you pull down the road. That has been their intended use decades as they were the replacement for the "P" type tire used previously.

For several years there was a controversy because the tire manufacturers switched to far-east production and suffered a loss quality control. That issue seems to have past and there was never any negative reports by the DOT. That does not keep folks from complaining and blaming every tire failure on foreign manufacturing.

Once again the industry has recognized a need for an improved tire and manufactures are responding.

Rest assured that once manufacturing is perfected they too will be built by cheaper labor.

No lack of understanding here. And I never once blamed the country of origin. In fact on the many sets of ST tires I owned I never even looked to see where they were made. I just don't think that is a problem.

But the ST tire did not come about to replace the "p" tires which were NOT commonly used in trailer service.

Rather they were to replace more expensive LT tires.

This is a quote used by many in the industry
" The ST tire is an affordable tire solution for your trailering needs"

Sounds good doesn't it?
Note what it doesn't say.
That it is a better tire than the LTs that were used before.

Said another way; " The ST tire is a cheaper tire that is good enough for trailer use"

This is a far more accurate statement.
All of the so called benefits of the ST tires are not tested for in the govt. regs.
In fact the ST vs LT tire testing standards are/were vastly different. The LT must past far more stringent tests over all.
As for the special needs of trailer tires.. There is only one test that could apply to that. the bead unseating force. Those tests are identical for both STs and LTs.

I particularly like the shallower tread for cooler running of ST tires claim. That is a joke. First off, heat is not a big problem as trailer tires spend most all of their time simply rolling down the road following the TVs tires which do most of the work.
Next it is common knowledge in the tire world that shallow tread means less puncture resistance, and less traction (more hydroplaning) What shallow tread DOES mean to the manufacturer is less rubber used in the tire, and a cheaper cost. Then there is the claim that fewer plies with thicker cords are used for the same reasons... It is also cheaper to make it using this method.
Of course saying it that way would not sound good when one is trying to sell a tire. So a positive spin is put on it. Also known as marketing.

This works for many as most trailer tires age out far before the tread wears out. And most consumers are really sensitive to cost.
They simply cannot justify paying LT prices for a TT tire that only gets used 2-3 times a year for far less than a 1000 miles a year, and doesn't carry passengers. Vs. their TV tires which are used everyday for tens of thousands of miles a year and do carry people.

So if a cheaper ST tire meets your needs, it is perfectly legal to use them on your trailer. It is also perfectly legal to use LTs on your trailer.
However it is NOT legal to use ST tires on your TV!!
That fact alone speaks volumes.

[rbpru]

As always the profound lack of understanding of the ST tire raises its head.

The ST was designed; with stiffer side walls, with UV resistant compounds, with a tread designed for straight pull and less rolling resistance and a service speed of 65 mph.

The were and still are designed for trailer use. Horse trailers, utility trailer, travel trailers and about any other type trailer you pull down the road. That has been their intended use decades as they were the replacement for the "P" type tire used previously.

For several years there was a controversy because the tire manufacturers switched to far-east production and suffered a loss quality control. That issue seems to have past and there was never any negative reports by the DOT. That does not keep folks from complaining and blaming every tire failure on foreign manufacturing.

Once again the industry has recognized a need for an improved tire and manufactures are responding.

Rest assured that once manufacturing is perfected they too will be built by cheaper labor.

[westend]

gmw photos wrote:

westend wrote:
In my area, a 15" LT truck tire of mediocre quality is about 20% more than a name brand ST trailer tire.
I chose to put Carlisle RH load range D's on my old rig. I tend to drive slow and believe the Carlisle's are a good fit for what and how I pull. IIRC, they are speed rated to around 80 mph. I will never see that speed with my trailer.

A good 15" choice in LT is the good year wrangler HT. It is currently priced about $20 more than the new GY Endurance in a similar size from TireRack.

I may look at that for my next tire change, especially if Plan A goes into effect. Thanks!

[JIMNLIN]

RV.net member SeniorGNC lays it out for all to see the same or difference in NHTSA testing of ST and LT tires per FMVSS regs back in '08. Its been hashed and rehashed and reposted many times on our different trailering forums. ST vs LT testing. Lots of reading but pay attention to what SeniorGNC has laid out how the FMVSS testing is done.
I doubt the FMVSS were changed for tire mfg to remake or upgrade or re-engineer a tire or tire type.
Hell Goodyear Wrangler HT came OEM on larger trailers in the late '90s/early '00s era and had separation issues. Goodyear fixed them and to date they work fine in a trailer position.
Same with their 16" LT G614 RST load G tire. Terrible track record till Goodyear re-did then some time in the '08-'10 era. Now their vastly improved. No new FMVSS regs made those changes.

The question still remains will these new gen higher speed rated ST tire be a big improvement over old tech 60-65 mpg speed rated ST tires. I'm not a ST fan but I'm bettin' they will based on equipment trailer mfg like Starlite/PJ/Kaufman and others came OEM using the new gen high speed rating Provider ST tires and had great feed back from lite and heavy hauling customers since the '11-12 era.

[RinconVTR]

Atlee wrote:
Discount Tire says the Carlisle Radial Trail HD ST205/75R15 LRD weighs 24#

Discount Tire says the Good Year Endurance ST205/75R15 LRD weighs 30#.

RinconVTR wrote:

DinTulsa wrote:
That's strange.....the weight of the 225/75 15 E's show 29lbs and I've held them next to the Endurance and there is very little if any weight difference.

Their Sport Trail LH weighs that...not the HD series tire.

And Amazon says the HD weighs 20lbs.

For now, I'll believe my shipping invoice and hands on comparison.

Ironically, I need to order another loose spare. So I should have another one to throw on a scale and find out what reality is.

Funny thing is that there are two other ST's in this size that claim 43lbs, yet its only hard to believe the HD weighs that much? Hmm.

[Atlee]

Discount Tire says the Carlisle Radial Trail HD ST205/75R15 LRD weighs 24#

Discount Tire says the Good Year Endurance ST205/75R15 LRD weighs 30#.

RinconVTR wrote:

DinTulsa wrote:
That's strange.....the weight of the 225/75 15 E's show 29lbs and I've held them next to the Endurance and there is very little if any weight difference.

Their Sport Trail LH weighs that...not the HD series tire.