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Tongue weight

rastaman33609
Explorer
Explorer
Question for the experts....

If you have two enclosed trailers, the SAME size 6x12.single axle, and the other tandem axle, loaded with the SAME load.....Which trailer would have the LESS tongue weight?

I understand that a Tandem can carry more weight, however I am not trying to do that. I am hoping that if I upgrade from a single axle to tandem (carrying motorcycles) That I will be able to lessen my tongue weight. right now I am at 440 lbs and will be using a 18" hitch extension. (the tow vehicle is a 3500, hitch rating not a issue).

And I do not want to convert to a super hitch

thanks in advance
14 REPLIES 14

SidecarFlip
Explorer III
Explorer III
Kayteg1 wrote:
Pay attention to semitrailers. Some of them have rear axles several ft apart.
When truck makes sharp turn, one axle goes perfectly sideways, regardless only 2 axles.
That the price you have to pay having non-steering tandem axles.
For my low boy trailer, the issue was that nobody was making quality tires in the size. I was buying them cheap, but then they did not last.
Sure would be easier do what semitrucks do, spend $600 per tire, but run 1/2 million miles on it.
Bottom line, triple axle trailer is not best for turns, but very good for anti-sway.


I drove an 11 axle steel truck for years, 163,000 gross. A bit more than you haul around... Actually, about 104,000 payload depending on the truck, engine and fuel capacity.

With an 11 axle, (8 axle trailer), 3 axle tractor, all axles are on air and on the trailer, the rearmost axles (2) lifts as well as the front 3 to mitigate tire scrub as much as possible. On a multi-axle spread trailer, the front axles are steerable and the back lifts.

With 3 down turning, one of the axles will scrub depending on how the trailer is loaded or the road is crowned, plus, its hard on the suspension because the suspension (and trailer frame) has to absorb the twisting stress. I own a tandem axle gooseneck with duals on each and oil filled axles. Much better tire wise to deal with and with a close tandem you can haul as much (if not more) than any pickup truck can pull. I've put 40,000 pounds on my gooseneck before and went down the road. Not fast, but I went. 20, 2000 pound round bales of hay is quite a load.
2015 Backpack SS1500
1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
Pay attention to semitrailers. Some of them have rear axles several ft apart.
When truck makes sharp turn, one axle goes perfectly sideways, regardless only 2 axles.
That the price you have to pay having non-steering tandem axles.
For my low boy trailer, the issue was that nobody was making quality tires in the size. I was buying them cheap, but then they did not last.
Sure would be easier do what semitrucks do, spend $600 per tire, but run 1/2 million miles on it.
Bottom line, triple axle trailer is not best for turns, but very good for anti-sway.

SidecarFlip
Explorer III
Explorer III
Kayteg1 wrote:
I did tow 18k equipement trailer with triple axle.
Pintle hook not giving any stability, yet no sway issue, unless I loaded 12,000 lb bulldozer with blade facing front.
For some reason the air flow did make the difference.


I would never pull a tri-axle trailer when the axles are on springs, unless I had a discount tire card for rubber. Tri-axle trailers are notorious for wearing out tires quickly. Always scrubbing tires when turning.

No, on air with a rear axle dump, different story.
2015 Backpack SS1500
1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
It is all about the flex - just like with dualy trucks.
Double wheels cut the flex by 1/2 if not more as this is not linear function.
US build trailers are build with very loose suspensions, so flex is huge.
That is why European vehicles have their tow capacity cut to 1/4 what they can do with European trailers.
Any sedan can tow 5000lb of European trailer, but those trailers do have totally different build and no problem to have less than 200lb tongue weight.
See the axle placed about 1/2 length of the bed? The driver claims to reach 120 kph on occasions. You will never see it on US build trailer.

TxGearhead
Explorer II
Explorer II
I have wondered the same thing. Kinda like with tandem axles there is more weight spread over the axles vs. the tongue. It seems a tandem would be easier to balance without being hooked up than a single. I've balanced my single axle 6x14 but not for long!
Maybe put a different way...is the pivot point moved with tandems?
I think I understand your question, but pretty sure I didn't answer it.
edit add....wonder how hard it would be to move your single axle forward a bit?
2018 Ram 3500 CC LB DRW 4X4 Cummins Aisin Laramie Pearl White
2018 Landmark Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4
2014 NauticStar 21 ShallowBay 150HP Yamaha
2016 GoDevil 18X44 35HP Surface Drive

Bedlam
Moderator
Moderator
Maybe you need to run a light duty WDH?

Host Mammoth 11.5 on Ram 5500 HD

stevenal
Nomad II
Nomad II
The recommendation is generally to put 10% or more on the tongue, and I've never heard that this should vary based on the number of axles. If you cannot adjust the load, can you move the axle?
'18 Bigfoot 1500 Torklifts and Fastguns
'17 F350 Powerstroke Supercab SRW LB 4X4

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
When shopping for new trailer, pay attention at what distance from front the rear axle is placed.
Trailers are build with no shocks and usually their suspension have lot of side flex.
That adds to sway problem. Torsion axles are much better in this department.
So to avoid liability, trailer builders place the axle as far as 70% of bed length -forcing large tongue weight.
With 7k trailer and any 3/4t empty truck that is not a problem, but in your situation you don't have much given play.

mkirsch
Nomad II
Nomad II
The tandem will likely have MORE tongue weight on the basis that it will be overall heavier.

Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
I did tow 18k equipement trailer with triple axle.
Pintle hook not giving any stability, yet no sway issue, unless I loaded 12,000 lb bulldozer with blade facing front.
For some reason the air flow did make the difference.

jimh406
Explorer III
Explorer III
The chart on this page says the double has a higher tongue weight for 6x12. I suppose it could make sense if the frame is heavier.

http://www.southerntrailerdepot.com/features/trailer-weights

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member

rastaman33609
Explorer
Explorer
jimh425 wrote:
Move the bikes a slight amount back and see what that does for your tongue weight. 440 seems a little high unless you have quite a large number of bikes. What is the tongue weight empty?


that is the problem...I am carrying 3 bikes...2 dual sports (295 lbs each)...and a bigger bike (400 lbs)...there is no room to play with..
I did put the heavy bike in the back and turned around one of the small ones to put more weight backwards....

before I go out and buy another trailer I am curious if anyone has any experience with a tandem...WITH THE SAME LOAD...having less tongue weight.

jimh406
Explorer III
Explorer III
Move the bikes a slight amount back and see what that does for your tongue weight. 440 seems a little high unless you have quite a large number of bikes. What is the tongue weight empty?

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
Tongue weight is something YOU set by placing the load.
Main rule of putting more on front of the trailer is to avoid sway.
Dual axle will give you less sway, so you might get away with tongue with minimal load, while single axle trailers loaded in the rear are accident waiting to happen