Truck Campers 10 years from now?

[Jeepers92]

Being close to the new year, was just wondering what kind of camper our children might be driving ....

I can see them being much more " Off Grid ", than what we have now. Using newer designed photo cells to charge nickle metal battery packs controlled by an on board central computer system. Think of a battery system 1/2 the size, and 4 times the capacity of our current best spiral batteries.
How about smaller generators running on a fuel cell, also tied to the central computer system. It would automatically sense all power use and charge, making the best choices for you. It would also sense propane usage, auto tune your TV, be your radio, weather station, Co2 monitor,etc...and provide this info to a small touch pad monitor.

Flexible plastic outer bodies with an integrated aluminum frame, 2 or 3 slides, using a hydraulic system. The slides would sealed with accordion silicone seals to reduce leaks. How about the opposing slides to one track for counter balance.

All the outside to inside outlets ( AC, vents, etc.), would be sealed with ridge type aluminum seals requiring no sealant and all accessable from the outside.
The black water system would contain a compaction system, and dry disposal to reduce requirements on the black tank. How about a system to take the gray water and use it to supply the commode?

A water system that would collect rain, dew, exc.

Oh well, enough musing. My spring project is rebuilding the nose on my Fox.

[zcookiemonstar]

with the trend of kids never leaving home you want to know what kind of rv's they will have just look in your driveway.

[wnjj]

mbloof wrote:
BTW: I still want a oven with an ignition button, ~<$20 option on a gas grill....sheeze.

It's not a cost issue at all. My theory is they won't install automatic lighters inside a closed gas over because that can become a bomb if the gas is left on. When you open the door to light it manually you not only notice but vent it.

[silversand]

5: Furnaces and water heaters as one unit, powered by propane, electric, or both. Truma has a model which does this. This saves a lot of space and allows for more versatility. With addition #1 above, one could run the truck's engine for electricity and use electric heat.

I saw the Truma water heater/furnace in operation in a truck camper at the Overland Expo East in October. This product alone will change the North American RV immeasurably; their other power product (their fuel cell) would be icing on the cake (the Truma guy from Ontario was discussing with me a suggested retail price in the ~ $1300 range for the water heater/furnace on this side of the Pond)...

[Reddog1]

mbloof wrote:
The features I listed are what I'd like to see as an option or "standard equipment" on a modern camper. Sure there are TON's of very popular user/owner upgrades that many of us do (some of which I listed) my point being, why don't they just include them?

I agree to them being optional, but disagree with them being "standard equipment". I am sure you would not want to pay for something you do not need or want. It simply increases the cost of the TC. You purchased a top of the line TC in my opinion. I also believe you could have had any of the things added, for additional cost, when you ordered your TC. What difference does it make if they are standard equipment or an option as long as they are available.

mbloof wrote:
I suppose different strokes for different folks: some campers are a ongoing 'project' for the owner while others might rather simply use it. Thankfully some OEM's keep a eye on what upgrades we do and eventually add them as a option and/or standard equipment.

I totally agree with different strokes for different folks. If I were to buy a new TC, I would want to start with the basic simple TC. I would want to select the options/upgrades I wanted, not necessarily those the manufacture wanted. Simply stated, cherry pick what I wanted. I did this with my TC.

Respectfully, if we looked at your 2014 molded fiberglass TC and my 1988 molded TC, the basic units are pretty much the same. The real difference is how they are equipped. I think it is fair to say we have different needs/wants/interest in options. I was/am too cheap to buy a package TC equipped with stuff I am not interested in. My preference was/is to buy a solid base, and add those things that interested me. This is pretty much the way I see everything I own.

mbloof wrote:
BTW: I still want a oven with an ignition button, ~<$20 option on a gas grill....sheeze.

I am thinking you are very proud of your TC. In my opinion, you have the top of the line base, even though it does not have the $20 ignition button for the oven. My bet is that if you really want the button and were willing to pay for it, your local RV repair shop could install it. If you are willing to drive to the Sacramento area, I will install it for you. I offered to install one in my TC oven, but the wife says she is okay with the way it is.

[mbloof]

Reddog1 wrote:
Again, reread my post. With little exception, I was pointing out that most if not all of those things I quoted were in fact available now, whereas the poster said they would like to see in campers 10yrs from now. They are here now, if you want them, you just have to pay for them.

(sigh)

The features I listed are what I'd like to see as an option or "standard equipment" on a modern camper. Sure there are TON's of very popular user/owner upgrades that many of us do (some of which I listed) my point being, why don't they just include them?

I suppose different strokes for different folks: some campers are a ongoing 'project' for the owner while others might rather simply use it. Thankfully some OEM's keep a eye on what upgrades we do and eventually add them as a option and/or standard equipment.

BTW: I still want a oven with an ignition button, ~<$20 option on a gas grill....sheeze.

[RobertRyan]

RobertRyan wrote:

Mlts22 wrote:
is what I'd expect to see on TCs, now that European companies are actually dipping their toes in the US market:

1: Remote start and using the vehicle's engine as a generator using an alternator. High end class "B"s do this, even with diesels, so for boondocking, the vehicle's engine does all the work of the generator. Of course, why people want a $30,000 engine to do a $2000 generator's job is beyond me, but that is the fad right now.

All of those 11 points mentioned already exist in Australian RV's.The point above is very relevant in keeping the peace in camping areas.

Ways to cut on weight. After looking at TCs, unless one wants a pop-up, for any sort of solid wall model, it requires a one ton for light models, a one ton dually if one actually wants something comfortable. Maybe Ford's push for their branded TCs may be a jolt in the right directi

Global Pickups have much greater payloads so Pop Tops are not necessary. If required you get a heavier base for heavier TC's

[RobertRyan]

Mlts22 wrote:
is what I'd expect to see on TCs, now that European companies are actually dipping their toes in the US market:

1: Remote start and using the vehicle's engine as a generator using an alternator. High end class "B"s do this, even with diesels, so for boondocking, the vehicle's engine does all the work of the generator. Of course, why people want a $30,000 engine to do a $2000 generator's job is beyond me, but that is the fad right now.

All of those 11 points mentioned already exist in Australian RV's.The point above is very relevant in keeping the peace in camping areas.

[mlts22]

My two centavos on this topic:

I think we will see a "back to basics" return, both due to tight budgets, and pent up Luddite-ism. Even the tablet market is drying up, as people are tired of buying a new thing every so often to replace the perfectly good, but last year's thing.

Here is what I'd expect to see on TCs, now that European companies are actually dipping their toes in the US market:

1: Remote start and using the vehicle's engine as a generator using an alternator. High end class "B"s do this, even with diesels, so for boondocking, the vehicle's engine does all the work of the generator. Of course, why people want a $30,000 engine to do a $2000 generator's job is beyond me, but that is the fad right now.

2: Better communication between the truck and TC. Things like the truck's radio and XM being able to be used in the TC, or the TC's camera be used in the truck without having to patch wires in.

3: Fuel Cells like the Truma VeGA that use propane, but give you 10-20 amp-hours for the batteries. This doesn't sound like much... but it is enough to allow a compressor fridge to work 24/7 without needing solar.

4: In combination with #3 and solar charging systems, the end of the absorption fridge. The result is that even when in the middle of nowhere, parked at a steep angle, your beer will still be cold.

5: Furnaces and water heaters as one unit, powered by propane, electric, or both. Truma has a model which does this. This saves a lot of space and allows for more versatility. With addition #1 above, one could run the truck's engine for electricity and use electric heat.

6: Oddball toilets, be it cassettes or even composting toilets.

7: A move to composite plastics like Azdel for everything inside, similar to Livin Lite. The RV industry cycles between painted wood and woodgrain, and it looks like newer rigs are going back to being completely painted as opposed to woodgrain. So, expect plastic/composite drawers or cabinet doors.

8: Fancier slide-outs as mentioned above. Maybe even drop-down beds.

9: Microwaves that slide out as drawers.

10: Again, European improvements, be it HEHR double-pane windows, Froli bedsprings (to circulate air under the mattress), more sleek appearance, and SMEV flush stove/sinks.

11: Fancier power distribution systems, like the Silverleaf system for lithium-ion batteries. Since "bringing the grid with you" is the norm, not the exception, moving to higher capacity batteries, with charging and energy management systems is a no-brainer. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see inverters like Victron's or Magnum Energy's hybrid inverter in common use, isolating the A/C and all internal electrical appliances from shore power.

12: Ways to cut on weight. After looking at TCs, unless one wants a pop-up, for any sort of solid wall model, it requires a one ton for light models, a one ton dually if one actually wants something comfortable. Maybe Ford's push for their branded TCs may be a jolt in the right direction.

[Reddog1]

mbloof wrote:
With only Bigfoot and Northernlite selling molded fiberglass campers, there are quite a few buyers whom get models which are not as easily sealed or as reliably sealed. Failing seals is almost always blamed on the owner. Put in perspective how often does the inside of your car get wet?

I am guessing you typically drive new cars, and are not aware of the frequent leaks in both new and older cars. Rusted floors are very common, and usually due to deteriorated seals or seals improperly installed.

mbloof wrote:
Then again, even my 2014 NL's owners manual says that all seals need to be inspected twice a year.

Does it say re-caulk twice a year? Have you ever inspected and/or caulked your TC? Has it ever needed to be re-caulked?

mbloof wrote:

Reddog1 wrote:
The molded fiberglass TCs have little to no wood that needs to be replaced. There is a little wood in the construction, but seldom proves to be a problem.

Sorry, while the "shells" on these units are fiberglass+foam with thin plywood backing and (outside of the molded fiberglass bath) the entire inside is wood construction. You name it, basement, dinette, cabinets, floor it is all wood. A seal leak likely will not lead to scrapping the camper but there is a lot of wood in there to get damaged.

You are reading into my post, and ignoring what I posted. "... little to no wood that needs to be replaced." is what I posted. While there is a lot of wood in there to get damaged it seldom does.

mbloof wrote:
From what I've read so far, I suppose your arguing that TC's ought to remain in the "dark ages" and buyers/owners will continue to have to spend a few $1000 in "upgrades" to make them more "modern"?

If you reread my post, you might better understand what I posted. I was responding to a post that had wanted to see features that already existed. I really do not think, nor did I imply, your TC is a product of the "dark ages" even though it is constructed pretty much the same as my +25 year old TC. I am arguing most people do not take advantage of the technology that has existed for the past +25 years, including a molded TC. Bigfoot and Northern Lite are not the only molded TCs. I have never understood how Filon and rubber type roofs could be considered as good as a molded TC as it pertains to leaks. The molded TC even has about 1/2 the seams/joints that could leak.

My TC did not have the modern stuff inside the TC as do today's TCs. I think everything in the post I quoted has been around for quite a while. My bet is your Northern Lite will be here long after non-molded TCs will be gone. I question there will ever be a better outside construction than a molded TC. Lighter material maybe. However, there has been some PVC or ABS TCs built that were lighter.

mbloof wrote:
I must of jumped on the wrong thread - I THOUGHT we were discussing what we'd like to see in campers 10yrs from now - NOT what I can do today myself.

Again, reread my post. With little exception, I was pointing out that most if not all of those things I quoted were in fact available now, whereas the poster said they would like to see in campers 10yrs from now. They are here now, if you want them, you just have to pay for them.

[Naio]

jimh425 wrote:
most of the people who are hardcore rvers I know or met didn't really get going until their late 50s or 60s. If say most of the Gen Xers and Milleniels have some time to grow up or save. For now most of those are in tents.

Gen Xers are in their late 40s-early 50s now. Time flies!

[RobertRyan]

dadwolf2 wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

dadwolf2 wrote:
IF, Australian or other country RV companies make a foothold with innovative construction, then the US market will change. But if these companies don't meet a competitive price point...will never happen.

They are already doing just that.
Air commander Airconditioning
Host industriess Eathcruiser
All Terrain Warriors United States
EarthCruiser in US partnership with host Industries
ARB

Yes, but they are FAR from mainstream. I bet you could visit 99 out of 100 typical RV dealerships and never see the likes of your list. Plus, like I previously mentioned, the cost of these will keep them from competing
with Lance or Arctic Fox, Northstar or Adventurer/Eagle Cap or....


But maybe, this is what IMO, it will take for that 10 year change to occur!

Not mainstream in the US, but reasonably common where I live and elsewhere.. Conventional TC's are not Mainstream in Aust/NZ, Europe or Asia, but Common in NA
The Airconditioning system, composites, suspension systems,electronic stabilisers, and others can easily be installed into current US products and in fact some already have. More will be added as US and NA outlets are found

[mbloof]

Reddog1 wrote:
I have a 1988 molded fiberglass TC. I bought it in 2004 in stock condition. I modified/upgraded it with the things I wanted.

I have a 2014 molded fiberglass TC, I'm currently adding features that I feel are missing.

Personally, I don't count a better charging system and a extra battery as much of an improvement while incremental its not a innovative thing. Maybe someday we'll see LiPO battery packs instead of the lead acid?

Reddog1 wrote:
Todays TC if much different than a +25yrs old TC.

Other than the introduction of 'slide outs' there's really been very little improvements unless we count that seemingly EVERYTHING was optional years ago and many features are now "standard". We'll have to agree to disagree here.

Reddog1 wrote:
I am the second owner of my TC. I was the first to reseal the entire TC. I did so in 2004 and it is a 1988 TC that has never been under a cover. I have checked the seal joints since, and only re-caulked the windows. They were not properly caulked at time of manufacture. I have argued, and will argue, that this is only possible with a molded TC. Mine is molded fiberglass.

With only Bigfoot and Northernlite selling molded fiberglass campers, there are quite a few buyers whom get models which are not as easily sealed or as reliably sealed. Failing seals is almost always blamed on the owner. Put in perspective how often does the inside of your car get wet?

Then again, even my 2014 NL's owners manual says that all seals need to be inspected twice a year.

Reddog1 wrote:
The molded fiberglass TCs have little to no wood that needs to be replaced. There is a little wood in the construction, but seldom proves to be a problem.

Sorry, while the "shells" on these units are fiberglass+foam with thin plywood backing and (outside of the molded fiberglass bath) the entire inside is wood construction. You name it, basement, dinette, cabinets, floor it is all wood. A seal leak likely will not lead to scrapping the camper but there is a lot of wood in there to get damaged.

From what I've read so far, I suppose your arguing that TC's ought to remain in the "dark ages" and buyers/owners will continue to have to spend a few $1000 in "upgrades" to make them more "modern"?

I must of jumped on the wrong thread - I THOUGHT we were discussing what we'd like to see in campers 10yrs from now - NOT what I can do today myself.

[Reddog1]

I have a 1988 molded fiberglass TC. I bought it in 2004 in stock condition. I modified/upgraded it with the things I wanted.

mbloof wrote:
Humm... what does the future bring for TC's??

Hopefully not more of the same crud! The industry moves at such a snails pace that (as others have pointed out) a modern model might not be much different than one +25yrs old!

My TC is about 26 years old, 1988. In its day, it was among the top of the line. Today's TCs have quite a few improvements over my OEM 1988 Bigfoot. The biggest single improvement is one or more batteries, chargers, and related. There are more changes and technology, but I think it could be argued as to their being an improvement. I think maybe more convenience for some folks.Todays TC if much different than a +25yrs old TC.

mbloof wrote:
I'd like to see:

I have upgraded my +25yrs old TC with those things you listed, that I am interested in. My TC total cost (TC & plus upgrades)
is $10,000.

mbloof wrote:
- true water proof - the entire idea/concept that every 6mo-year or 2-3 years you have to reseal the entire darn thing has to go the way of the doodoo bird!

I am the second owner of my TC. I was the first to reseal the entire TC. I did so in 2004 and it is a 1988 TC that has never been under a cover. I have checked the seal joints since, and only re-caulked the windows. They were not properly caulked at time of manufacture. I have argued, and will argue, that this is only possible with a molded TC. Mine is molded fiberglass.

mbloof wrote:
- lighter with composets, any remaining wood skin or structure needs to be replaced. (inside cabinet faces and doors are fine to be wood)

The molded fiberglass TCs have little to no wood that needs to be replaced. There is a little wood in the construction, but seldom proves to be a problem.

mbloof wrote:
- Hibread Compressor/ammonia refridge's

I think this could be an improvement. I considered upgrading to that, but the cost was more than I was willing to pay. It is not simply the cost of the refrigerator, but the added batteries and solar to support it. It is available in most TCs today, if you are willing to pay the price.

mbloof wrote:
- Led lighting throughout

Nothing complicated here, all of my lights are L.E.D., inside and out. Cost about $12 per fixture to replace the OEM bulbs. My outside lights were $12 each, and $50 for the tail lights.

mbloof wrote:
- Factory solar+MPPT controller

It is much cheaper today, but I installed two panels (130 watts total) and a Bluesky MPPT controller. Cost was just under $800. I also had to install a battery (AGM) and a Smart 3-stage charger. My +25 year old TC had none of this.

mbloof wrote:
- True Amp Hour battery monitoring system

I installed a Trimetric. Pretty inexpensive, and simple to install.

mbloof wrote:
- More +12V outlets and a few USB ones as well

I added about four +12V outlets, and installed them where I wanted them. A very simple project.

mbloof wrote:
- Lots of folks end up adding one later - why not INCLUDE a quality SINE WAVE inverter?

Personally, I have never needed one, and it would be adding cost to the TC that I did not need. My bet is that if you bought a new TC, they would install one at your request.

mbloof wrote:
- Are they EVER going to give us a DSI button to light the oven?

It would be an added cost to me, for something I do not need. I can light the pilot and leave it on, or simply light the oven. This is done inside the TC. I see no reason to add this to the cost of the TC.

mbloof wrote:
- Are they every going to just give us a DSI/AC Hot water heater as STANDARD?

My OEM water heater was propane/pilot lite only. When it failed, I replaced it with a DSI and no AC. I do not see the AC as being worth what it cost. To make this standard in a TC would be a unnecessary cost to me. DSI is great, and better as an option for the overall TC market.

mbloof wrote:
- Why don't TC's come with outside (and inside) bubble levels?

Honestly, I chuckled at this. For less than $20 and a few minutes, you can add these. I did. The manufacture has no idea where I want mine, and after labor cost would probably increase the TC cost by $50 to $100. I prefer to install them myself.

mbloof wrote:
- Don't get me started about the joke they call a sound system - seems the industry and the Jensen stuff they put into these rigs sounds worse than factory Automobile audio systems from the 1970's!

Just a few ideas...

There is probably no end to what could bee added for a sound system. My TC does not even have a radio. My preference is not to spend a nickle on a sound system for my TC. If I were so inclined, I would go to a shop that installs sound systems. I bet they could install a better system than the manufacture for far less cost.


I installed the TV, generator, microwave, water pump, accumulator, Wave heater, backup camera, TC jack system, and A/C of my choice. I have no parasitic loads on my battery.

In my opinion, too many people know to little about the overall TC construction. I do not mean this statement to be critical of others. If it shines and the sales pitch sounds good, it is a great product. Unfortunately, this is not unique to TCs. Fact is, we all have our own idea as to what is best.

Wayne

[dadwolf2]

RobertRyan wrote:

dadwolf2 wrote:
IF, Australian or other country RV companies make a foothold with innovative construction, then the US market will change. But if these companies don't meet a competitive price point...will never happen.

They are already doing just that.
Air commander Airconditioning
Host industriess Eathcruiser
All Terrain Warriors United States
EarthCruiser in US partnership with host Industries
ARB

Yes, but they are FAR from mainstream. I bet you could visit 99 out of 100 typical RV dealerships and never see the likes of your list. Plus, like I previously mentioned, the cost of these will keep them from competing
with Lance or Arctic Fox, Northstar or Adventurer/Eagle Cap or....

But maybe, this is what IMO, it will take for that 10 year change to occur!