Unique situation: What tow vehicle checks all the boxes?

[davehultin]

Today I thought I might found my next tow vehicle, but it didn't check all the boxes. I'm looking for something that can tow 9000 lbs or better. Sounds like a pickup, right? But my wife has a business that requires the occassional use of the tow vehicle's cargo space. She likes to be able to drop the third row seats (in my 2010 Ford Expedition, Eddie Bauer edition) and collapse the seconde row seats into cargo mode. It opens up a LOT of room which is just perfect for her!

I thought I found a great fit for the next tow vehicle: A Nissan NV passenger van!
- Tow capacity: Over 9000 pounds - check!
- Cargo space: Lots of it! - check!
- Seats removable and/or collapsable? Removable, but not collapsable. - No check. 😞 That was a deal-killer.

Some of the 6.0 liter SUVs get up to around 8600 pounds towing capacity so we might be able to make that work, but honestly I don't want to cut the weight limits that close.

Any suggestions for tow vehicles that will check all the boxes on the list? 9000+ lbs towing capacity + cargo space + seats that can collapse?

[valhalla360]

davehultin wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Think about it, increasing from 7 to 9 MPG is a 28% increase. That's HUGE.

Yes, you're exactly right to put it in those terms. As long as I'm trending in the right direction for MPG I'm happy. We didn't get into camping to save gas!!! The family memories are invaluable compared to the cost of gas (even as these prices).

Common issue with using MPG. Example: Your family has 2 vehicles used similar miles and you want to replace one of them. A small car going from 40 to 50 MPG, sounds better than a truck going from 15 to 20 MPG. 10 more is better than 5 more of course...

But if you are driving say 12,000miles per year with each, the truck's improved MPG is by far the bigger impact on your wallet. Assuming $5/gal:
- Car goes from $1500 to $1200 per year in gas. ($300 saved)
- Truck goes from $4000 to $3000 per year in gas. ($1000 saved).

In Europe they use liters per 100km (translates as gallons per 100miles). Same basic data but gives the buyer a number closer to what they are really after. In our example:
- Car goes from 2.5 to 2.0 gal/100mile or 0.5 gal less every 100miles
- Truck goes from 6.7 to 5.0 gal/100mile or 1.7 gal less every 100 miles

[wowens79]

Glad you found an Expy that works. That Glamping business idea is pretty cool, we have a friend that did one for her girls birthday.

Did she think about an enclosed trailer?? She could have her logo and contact info and have a rolling billboard. Also, she might be able to leave some of the stuff in the trailer, and not have to load/unload as much.

[davehultin]

mkirsch wrote:
Think about it, increasing from 7 to 9 MPG is a 28% increase. That's HUGE.

Yes, you're exactly right to put it in those terms. As long as I'm trending in the right direction for MPG I'm happy. We didn't get into camping to save gas!!! The family memories are invaluable compared to the cost of gas (even as these prices).

[mkirsch]

Think about it, increasing from 7 to 9 MPG is a 28% increase. That's HUGE.

It takes energy to move weight. Some of it is wasted but not as much as you think.

The trailer backing assist system is for people who haven't already developed skills to back trailers. Your learning curve is due to old habits that are counter to the new system.

[Grit_dog]

Cool!!
Now all the people who freak out when someone says suv and decent size trailer, can calm down!

[davehultin]

OP here, thought I'd come back for a report on our first trip with the new tow vehicle (2019 Ford Expedition Max) pulling our trailer. The short version: I'm really REALLY liking this vehicle a LOT!

A little more about the trip:

The non-towing highway mileage increased from approximately 17 (on the previous 2010 Expedition) to 25 MPG. I was hoping the towing mileage would see a nice increase too. There was an increase, but pretty small: From 7 to 9 MPG.

It was hard to believe I was even towing! This machine pulls like a dream! Even going through construction zone with head-to-head traffic and staring down the 18-wheelers coming against me, the rig just didn't budge! Everything about pulling the trailer was as smooth as butter!

Well, almost everything. We had a tire blow out on the trailer about seven miles into the return trip. Can't blame that on the Expedition, though. But that's a story for another day (or my next post). 😕

Other things I like:
* Hands-free parallel parking. (Without the trailer, of course!) Hands-free perpendicular parking didn't go as well, but I can still do that on my own.
* Integrated brake controller. I really like my stand-along brake controller, but it's nice to "just go" and not have to remember to hook up another thing.
* The dashboard is heavily digital, but in a clean way that's not annoying.
* It appears that just hooking up the trailer also does an automatice light check. I can't confirm that yet, I'll still send my son to the back to do the visual check, but that appears to be the case. (Some car wash water appears to have gotten into the 7-pin connection and temporarily caused some electrical wackiness, causing the system to think the trailer was hooked up, and then reporting that one of the trailer lights wasn't working.)
* I thought the seat massager was way over the top, but when I sensed a drowsy moment coming, turning on the massager got enough movement in my body to keep my drive going in the right direction.
* The sunroof will rarely be open, but when it is ... oh my goodness that's a huge piece of glass to look through!
* And worth repeating: The power and mileage are amazing!

Also worth noting, I'm working through the learning curve of using the assisted back-up. The tiny knob is no steering wheel replacement, but I think I'll get to like it. It didn't do so hot on cranking out a hard turn to back into my driveway, but I did notice that if I have enough space to get a roughly-right aim at my back-up target, I could fine-tune pretty nicely with the assisted back-up, and then once I had fine-tuned it enough to have the trailer lined up to go straight back I could just go hands-free on the assisted back-up and let the Expedition get the trailer in exactly the right place, even if the Expedition was at a crazy angle compared to the trailer.

[JRscooby]

Grit dog wrote:

All perfect reasons that the "get a van because I have one and am jealous of those that drive fancy trucks and suvs" crowd couldn't wrap their heads around. Especially the last reason....I'm not skinny, because I try to stay on my wife's good side!

I think I'm the one that suggested a van. When I bought my last new one, 1979, I could of speced it out with any bells and whistles available on a F 150 at the time, plus the rest of the interior finished as nice. (I didn't because I wanted things not available from factory. I built a sports car; Van with bed and bar in back) I assumed that the trim levels available have kept up with pickups.
But my experience with trucks/hauling/towing says that van/PU with same drivetrain and suspension van would tow TT better. Pickup has that extra 5+ feet between cab and trailer for wind to Richard with you. The extra over hang of the pickup gives trailer more leverage to impart side to side and up/down motion into TV.
BTW, I drive a pickup, not a van

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:
Bells and whistles are good for the business. A basic vehicle does not put forth the image of a "glamping expert." Does Lincoln still make something on the Expedition platform?

But apparently exorbitantly heavy, according to Scooby, where AC and some upgraded seat fabric and power windows adds 1000lbs to a single cab truck! ROFL

[mkirsch]

Bells and whistles are good for the business. A basic vehicle does not put forth the image of a "glamping expert." Does Lincoln still make something on the Expedition platform?

[Grit_dog]

davehultin wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Did you ever articulate these "nuances" and why a pickup was not suitable? I don't recall seeing it.

No, I didn't. One of the biggies is the length of the load. There have been a few times when one of the items we need to haul to a glamping event is a rolled-up carpet. In our Expedition that goes from the back to the front, and on top of the console in the front seat. Can't successfully pull that off in a pickup.

Everything else is "naunce-ier" but still factors in to the decision, like being able to go into the side doors to get smaller packages out of the side instead of craning over the sides of the truck bed or scuttling in from the gate (and presumably squatting down to clear the topper).

Plus my wife is happier with an SUV instead of a truck, and I like the way she prepares supper. 🙂

All perfect reasons that the "get a van because I have one and am jealous of those that drive fancy trucks and suvs" crowd couldn't wrap their heads around. Especially the last reason....I'm not skinny, because I try to stay on my wife's good side!

[Grit_dog]

JRscooby wrote:

Couple hundred pounds? Mid '80s, a friend bought 2 brand new LTL9000 Fords. Same engines, transmissions, all 4 axles, beds, everything. Only difference was his driver wanted a nicer truck so 1 was XLT trim level, the other basic rubber mats, hand crank windows. The first day he put the trucks to work, the XLT was over 1000 lbs heavier.

Not a chance that anywhere near that magnitude of difference was due to
the "XLT convenience and comfort options" in the heavier truck.

If the trucks were truly the same otherwise, including wheelbase, powertrain, etc, someone had full saddle tanks and someone didn't.

Idk if one could even come up with more than a few hundred lbs extra in a new suv, which has far more "stuff" to be upgraded, although much of it technology based and not very physically heavy. (Assuming you pretty much can't get even a base model truck/suv without power windows, locks, AC, cruise (doesn't count anymore since CC is mostly software). Seats carpet and maybe a bit heavier tire/wheel combo.

The "luxury options hurts payload/ccc/towing capacity" argument is really quite inane. Unless one is being overtly literal, in which case, the numbers don't lie, they just don't really matter at such a small magnitude.

Op, congrats on the new rig!! That 380hp Ecoboost with gobs of low end torque will put a smile on your face for a while!

[davehultin]

JRscooby wrote:
Are you aware that all the "bells and whistles" subtract from the advertised tow capacity?

Yes. I was keeping a "subtraction buffer" going in my mind.

[davehultin]

mkirsch wrote:
Did you ever articulate these "nuances" and why a pickup was not suitable? I don't recall seeing it.

No, I didn't. One of the biggies is the length of the load. There have been a few times when one of the items we need to haul to a glamping event is a rolled-up carpet. In our Expedition that goes from the back to the front, and on top of the console in the front seat. Can't successfully pull that off in a pickup.

Everything else is "naunce-ier" but still factors in to the decision, like being able to go into the side doors to get smaller packages out of the side instead of craning over the sides of the truck bed or scuttling in from the gate (and presumably squatting down to clear the topper).

Plus my wife is happier with an SUV instead of a truck, and I like the way she prepares supper. 🙂

[JRscooby]

mkirsch wrote:
That's nice. Glad you're happy with the purchase.

Did you ever articulate these "nuances" and why a pickup was not suitable? I don't recall seeing it.

Frankly a couple hundred pounds of "bells and whistles" will not appreciably affect towing performance. I suggest the "hitch up and pay no attention" method.

Couple hundred pounds? Mid '80s, a friend bought 2 brand new LTL9000 Fords. Same engines, transmissions, all 4 axles, beds, everything. Only difference was his driver wanted a nicer truck so 1 was XLT trim level, the other basic rubber mats, hand crank windows. The first day he put the trucks to work, the XLT was over 1000 lbs heavier.
Now I know many are going to say you are not talking class 8 units, oranges and grapefruit. You would be right to a point. But that scale that day was comparing grapefruit to grapefruit. And there is not much difference in the size of daycab and a regular pickup cab. But there is a lot of difference in the size of regular pickup cab, and the inside of a big SUV.
Any time the ad brags about "Tow Capacity" there is always the *when properly equipped. Everybody know it must have right suspension and drive train. Not as many understand it can't have all the stuff a nice car is expected to have.
I think everybody should scale their snot. I do not say "Don't run over your ratings", I have done that most of my professional life. What I say is know your ratings, and your actual weights, so you know what might go wrong.