Update: On my RV Building Plans....

[myrvplans1]

UPDATE: On my RV building plans

Well, you spoke..... and I listened.

Thank you to all those that provided feedback to me on my RV building plans. Your ideas and suggestions have been very helpful. Some of the things pointed out to me were;

- My trailer was too high. (This was a rendering error and I corrected it) The actual trailer should come in at no more than 11' now.

- I didn't have enough storage. Now I added a storage cabinet over the desk and an access door to storage below the trailer in the back.

- Someone even pointed out that my tongue was not in the right spot and I corrected that.

If you haven't seen my plans to build an RV or you want to see the rendering revisions I made please go to: MY RV PLANS If you have any more suggestions, ideas or feedback I would greatly appreciate it.

Fondly, -Darla

[Gdetrailer]

Tonyandkaren writes “Nice job on the trailer rebuild Gdetrailer!”

Thank You!

It was a lot of work but in the end well worth it since it is customized to OUR needs and tastes, something like ours will most likely not be something others will want..

“Your experiences with factory built trailers shows why some people such as Darla chose to build using a cargo trailer. No doubt her trailer will weigh more and be expensive but she's getting a very solid, practically leak proof base to finish out exactly as she wants it “


While my rebuild does show typical RV "weaknesses" keep in mind I was operating on a 25 year RV which had been EXTREMELY NEGLECTED. It spent 15+ yrs sitting in a RV park and the owners failed to do needed routine maintenance like checking and replacing caulking.

While a lot of folks will think cargo trailers are “better” and do not leak that is further from the truth.

Case in point.. HERE
Under service they state they fix..

“Roof and exterior leak repairs” as one of the "services" they do..

Even Semi trailers leak (the construction is typically the same as cargo trailers)

This is one example of a roofing material developed for leaking Semi trailer roofs..

SEMI ROOF COATINGS

Here is a post of someone with a cargo trailer roof leak..

LEAKY CARGO TRAILER LINK

Yet another leak..

HERE


There are some critical inherent issues that must be dealt with properly or Darla’s build is going to end up being a wet moldy mess.

Cargo trailers due to the nature of their design will have thousands of rivets holding the outside aluminum skin on, all it takes is one rivet being slightly loose or the caulking cracking and it is no longer a water proof method.

Cargo trailers typically use 4x8 ft sheets of aluminum for sidewalls and even the roof, this leads to another problem.. Water proofing the joints..

A sealant could be applied during construction at the joints but after it has been a few years that sealant now becomes an incessant and continual source of hidden leaks..

Once the sealant starts breaking down you will have random leaks which are going to drive you crazy and fixing them properly would require drilling out rivets and lifting the joint to reapply sealant..

Then there is the roof to sidewall and sidewall corner connections… Yep, same problem…

Additionally there is a massive issue with sweating or condensation inside, this needs to be dealt with before the interior walls are put in place..

The aluminum skin and studs if the outside is cold will gather and condense moisture from the warm air inside. Pretty much creating a rain storm inside. I have a garage with a all metal roof and even with good insulation under certain weather conditions I get one heck of a rain storm inside the garage..

Metal wall studs create an additional problem.. No thermal break, yep, those wall studs if you mount your inside paneling will suck the heat out in the winter and in the summer will turn the trailer into an oven.. You have to create a thermal break by using wall studs which are not thermally conductive over top the metal studs or you have to install extra metal studs which do not touch the exterior studs or wall material.

Cargo trailers typically do not have any seals at the doors, this allows for natural air movement exchanging inside air for outside air reducing the possible condensation from being a huge problem.

Darla will need to make the cargo trailer nearly air tight if she wants to reasonably heat and cool the trailer.. She does not have windows for allowing cross ventilation nor any roof vents..

She picked too large of a A/C unit which will not be effective for reducing the moisture so she most likely will need to buy a dehumidifier and run that in conjunction with the A/C unit. This will add unneeded cost, wasted space and not to mention LESS reliability (I use a dehumidifier in my home basement and I average two years out of a dehumidifier at $275 each).

“. It's not something the majority of RVs would want but from reading her blog and the posts on this thread, I'm believe that she's going to be living in the trailer fulltime for years with no intention of selling it. I certainly don't agree with all of her ideas but I'm very interested in seeing the finished product and how she likes it after a few months or years of living in it. “

It will be interesting to say the least.

But over time Darla WILL run into a lot of the same leak issues that RVs get but unlike a RV will not be as easy to detect OR repair.

“Obviously we all have different wants and needs-just look at how many different types of RVs are manufactured. But what Darla wants isn't being made so custom is a good way to get it. I'm not sure where all of the animosity on this thread is coming from. It doesn't make sense to me to get angry about something that doesn't affect you. 🙂 “

There is nothing wrong with a custom build, but if you want it to work correctly and not have to do over several times it is best to do it “right” out of the starting gate. Part of getting it right is to stop and pause a moment with a open mind and be willing to adjust your design as others point out short comings (after all.. Darla DID ASK FOR HELP).

As in anything we do, it is ALL about compromise, there are things that just can not be helped and must be changed in order to make the entire project work.. It is called compromise.

Often our “plans” look good on paper but when they are being built you find things which just don’t work as you expected. This often creates very expensive changes and if the plan progressed to far it may not be changeable.

When others with experience tell you something in the design isn’t right or won’t work as designed you better stop and rethink your design..

There ARE a lot of things Darla has designed which from my own experiences I know are not going to work as well as expected but alas pretty much anything that has been posted stating so has fallen on deaf ears.. You just can’t teach others with closed minds, kind of reminds me of parenting kids (have a 14yr old “teen” right now that “knows” more than us parents)..

[tonyandkaren]

Gdetrailer wrote:


The following document is my second and current rebuild, it took me 2 1/2 years to do, worked on it nearly every night and weekends.

KOMFORT REBUILD

Nice job on the trailer rebuild Gdetrailer! Your experiences with factory built trailers shows why some people such as Darla chose to build using a cargo trailer. No doubt her trailer will weigh more and be expensive but she's getting a very solid, practically leak proof base to finish out exactly as she wants it. It's not something the majority of RVs would want but from reading her blog and the posts on this thread, I'm believe that she's going to be living in the trailer fulltime for years with no intention of selling it. I certainly don't agree with all of her ideas but I'm very interested in seeing the finished product and how she likes it after a few months or years of living in it.


Obviously we all have different wants and needs-just look at how many different types of RVs are manufactured. But what Darla wants isn't being made so custom is a good way to get it. I'm not sure where all of the animosity on this thread is coming from. It doesn't make sense to me to get angry about something that doesn't affect you. 🙂

[OhhWell]

http://www.coolrunninghs.com/ls090hxv.html

[Gdetrailer]

myrvplans1 wrote:

gdetrailer wrote:
I speak from the experience of tearing down and completely rebuilding not one but TWO TTs.

Any chance we can see pictures from your 2 rebuilds? I am eager to see with my own eyes a model of quality workmanship. How bout it? -Darla

The following document is my second and current rebuild, it took me 2 1/2 years to do, worked on it nearly every night and weekends.

KOMFORT REBUILD

Google plays havoc with the photo quality. To see the photos better you will need to download the PDF to your PC and then open with your own Adobe reader..

I only have a couple of pix on the first rebuild, I was so upset when I discovered I was snookered by the seller I didn't bother taking much in photos. The rot was so bad that every upper cabinet had to be removed and I built all new cabinets from scratch.

You can't buy the knowledge I learned and it is what you are missing, without understanding what is under the hood you will be making rather expensive mistakes.

[Huntindog]

A couple of thoughts. Are you stuck on 15'?
It occurred to me that since most building materials are 4x8 standardized, that making the TT box 16' would likely yield some savings in labor, and not add any to the cost of materials. Most of the materials cut off over 15' will just be thrown away, and you would be paying someone to do it!. An extra foot would not be noticed at all when towing, but could make a substantial impact on the interior, at basically zero cost.
It may not work out to exactly 1 foot of extra room, and you would have to have the cargo trailer selected in order to plan it that close.
You would hate to be a inch short in the materials.
But some detailed construction planning couild pay some dividends.

In another post, we talked about how to handle the rear door. IIRCC, you said that the trailer builder could just wall it off.
I think that keeping the doors, if they are the swing open type could have some advantages.
First off it would keep the stealth mode consistent with your desire to not look like a camper.

Next is it would make the construction a LOT easier. If the rear is walled off, then everything will need to be brought in thru the small entry door. This will slow things down considerably and drive up the labor cost.
You could make a sort of false wall back there for when the doors were open, or have a screen wall like some toy haulers have. Might be nice sometimes to have some extra ventilation
Another thought: If you got a ramp rear door, you could use it as a patio. I have even seen pics of a toy hauler with this setup with the ramp hanging out over a lake, so that they could fish off of their own "dock" It looked pretty cool

Finally with the raised floor plan, if the rear doors were still there, you could access the area under the floor just by opening the doors. The possibilities here are endless. You could install some of those long slide out drawers like some camper shell kits have. One could even store one of those fold up canoes in there. Obviously, some of this space will be occupied by tanks etc. so thinking this out in advance would be necessary.

[thomasmnile]

myrvplans1 wrote:



Geez, after reading that I think we should drag Darla out by her ears, string her up and stone her! 🙂 -Darla

Yeah, let's tar and feather her too.

Seriously, hope your plan works as you envision it. Learned long ago this forum can be a tough 'club' to play. Don't be deterred, chase your dream. If things don't work as planned no one here got hurt.

[noteven]

Those rv out swing doors are a pain but a conventional rv out swing door maintains the weather seal and saves the swing space inside. A power actuator that can be switched on and off would solve issues like the "opening the door past your nose while standing on the step with your hands full" procedure. Not having to lean out the hatch to horse the door closed in a wind would be nice, just choose "power close".

[myrvplans1]

gdetrailer wrote:
I speak from the experience of tearing down and completely rebuilding not one but TWO TTs.

Any chance we can see pictures from your 2 rebuilds? I am eager to see with my own eyes a model of quality workmanship. How bout it? -Darla

[myrvplans1]

Gdetrailer wrote:

msgtord wrote:
Some of you guy's are going to be be lost when Darla post "Yea, you guys are right. I bought me a Keystone."

X2

"Darla" has time and time again has shown complete ignorance and lack of understanding the hows and the whys RVs ARE built they way they are..

For instance the never ending battle of the outside door opening INWARD for one.. Darla states the RV manufacturers "cheat" folks by "hiding" mistakes or cutting corners in the walls.

There is good reason for those skinny outside walls, first the walls ARE stronger than what they appear to be.. Those 1 x 2s in the walls by themselves are weak but when the inside paneling is glue and stapled on the overall strength is stronger than if you used 2x4s!..

Another thing Darla seams to accuse is cheating on insulation.. Well most RVs do use fiberglass which doesn't have a lot of R value but most folks tend to use the RVs in good weather and Darla is basing her point on HER 30+ ft MONSTER RV. A smaller RV has no problem with 13K BTU A/C unit but a 30+ trailer is most likely needing TWO A/C units..

You can only get so much insulation out of 1 1/4" of area for insulation.. Even the highest R value (Poly Iso) is about R6 per inch and twice the money compared to fiberglass so if you want it super insulated something HAS to give (interior space IE THICKER WALLS AND MONEY)..

Darla scoffs at RV construction but yet does not understand the reasons or principles of the materials used and how they are used..

Extremely strong but yet light weight walls, cabinets and even bunks are built using a sandwich method, 1/8" luan top, 1x2 turned sideways and 1/8" bottom glued and stapled together makes for a structure which is lighter weigh than a 3/4" piece of plywood and nearly twice the strength of 3/4 plywood.. This type of construction is done not to "cheat" in quality but to be less weight, less thickness, less expensive than what would be done in a sticks and bricks.

I speak from the experience of tearing down and completely rebuilding not one but TWO TTs.

Darla is making a bunch of assumptions based on HER BAD "EXPERIENCE" with ONE 30+ MONSTER RV..

Her assumptions while good intentioned are going to add uneeded weight, cost and add no value or even longer life of the RV..

She came here asking for advice with a closed mind, which is a real shame.

She came here to have folks "validate" her vision and here vision only, thats a shame.

There IS a lot of good advice given that SHOULD be listened to but she isn't, thats a shame.

I have a hunch even when here "vision" crashes and burns she will still insist she is "right" and we are all wrong (she DID state that the customer does not no what they want).. After all it is her money to throw away (and boy is it going to go, I wish I had $100K of loose change to dump down the toilet, I am a piker sinking only $6K into my last rebuild)..

I wish Darla good luck with her venture..

Geez, after reading that I think we should drag Darla out by her ears, string her up and stone her! 🙂 -Darla

[Gdetrailer]

msgtord wrote:
Some of you guy's are going to be be lost when Darla post "Yea, you guys are right. I bought me a Keystone."

X2

"Darla" has time and time again has shown complete ignorance and lack of understanding the hows and the whys RVs ARE built they way they are..

For instance the never ending battle of the outside door opening INWARD for one.. Darla states the RV manufacturers "cheat" folks by "hiding" mistakes or cutting corners in the walls.

There is good reason for those skinny outside walls, first the walls ARE stronger than what they appear to be.. Those 1 x 2s in the walls by themselves are weak but when the inside paneling is glue and stapled on the overall strength is stronger than if you used 2x4s!..

Another thing Darla seams to accuse is cheating on insulation.. Well most RVs do use fiberglass which doesn't have a lot of R value but most folks tend to use the RVs in good weather and Darla is basing her point on HER 30+ ft MONSTER RV. A smaller RV has no problem with 13K BTU A/C unit but a 30+ trailer is most likely needing TWO A/C units..

You can only get so much insulation out of 1 1/4" of area for insulation.. Even the highest R value (Poly Iso) is about R6 per inch and twice the money compared to fiberglass so if you want it super insulated something HAS to give (interior space IE THICKER WALLS AND MONEY)..

Darla scoffs at RV construction but yet does not understand the reasons or principles of the materials used and how they are used..

Extremely strong but yet light weight walls, cabinets and even bunks are built using a sandwich method, 1/8" luan top, 1x2 turned sideways and 1/8" bottom glued and stapled together makes for a structure which is lighter weigh than a 3/4" piece of plywood and nearly twice the strength of 3/4 plywood.. This type of construction is done not to "cheat" in quality but to be less weight, less thickness, less expensive than what would be done in a sticks and bricks.

I speak from the experience of tearing down and completely rebuilding not one but TWO TTs.

Darla is making a bunch of assumptions based on HER BAD "EXPERIENCE" with ONE 30+ MONSTER RV..

Her assumptions while good intentioned are going to add uneeded weight, cost and add no value or even longer life of the RV..

She came here asking for advice with a closed mind, which is a real shame.

She came here to have folks "validate" her vision and here vision only, thats a shame.

There IS a lot of good advice given that SHOULD be listened to but she isn't, thats a shame.

I have a hunch even when here "vision" crashes and burns she will still insist she is "right" and we are all wrong (she DID state that the customer does not no what they want).. After all it is her money to throw away (and boy is it going to go, I wish I had $100K of loose change to dump down the toilet, I am a piker sinking only $6K into my last rebuild)..

I wish Darla good luck with her venture..

[msgtord]

Some of you guy's are going to be be lost when Darla post "Yea, you guys are right. I bought me a Keystone."

[msgtord]

thomasmnile wrote:

myrvplans1 wrote:


Great point! And this was my basis for custom building. I believe that this is another area the big RV manufacturers cut costs with sub-standard materials because as a retail shopper you can't see what's in a wall like you can see the flat screen tv on the wall. Thanks - Darla

Well, not just material quality, but because of weight considerations, the typical RV side wall (and roof structure) doesn't have a lot of 'thickness' to it.

Wow. I like it!

[GrandpaKip]

myrvplans1 wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Darla, I really believe more thought is required of the door situation. Unless there are three locking points on the knob side, you are pretty much guaranteed to have periodic leaks. House doors open inward for security (hinges inside, harder to pry open), ability to easily add screen/storm door, and are not usually trying to resist 60 mph winds. I also looked at reversing the door on my build, but rejected it because of the leak issue. There are ways of mitigating the wind blowing the door upon opening.

[COLOR=]Hey Grandpa, I am putting more thought into the door situation, but I don't yet have enough facts to abandon the idea just yet. Taking the pros-cons of which way a door swings out of the equation for just a moment are rain/leaks really a factor in a door that swings inward? Is there any way to seal such a door from leaks? Are leaks more likely to be an issue in transit or while parked?

In transit is what I would be concerned with, though I have replaced lots of residential doors that had allowed water inside.

I'm just not understanding why leaks would occur in a door that is designed to seal properly. I get really heavy rain on my home front entry door all the time and that thing
never leaks. Even when I turn on my lawn sprinklers near my door...never a drop. If this is really an issue then why do you think inward doors are the dominant choice for all these tiny RV homes that are popping up all over the place?

I have looked at the tiny house trailers and every one I saw is nowhere near what I would consider roadworthy for any length of time like most RVs are used. The makers of tiny houses do not have to adhere to any type of code so they can build them any old whichaway. Ask yourself if you would haul your house down the road at 65 mph. I wouldn't and I built mine way above code.


1) Is this an engineering issue?

Yep. The only way to get around it would be to have 3 locking points on the lock side of the door. Worst scenario with standard arrangement--twist, bang, bump the trailer hard enough to disengage the door going down the interstate in the rain. You won't know its open til you stop. The wind will keep the door mostly closed on an outward door.

2) Please share your thoughts on mitigating the wind.

At first, I used one of the tension spring chains from the rear cargo doors along with a rubber bumper. I took the chain off when I added a screen door and realized I never really had an issue with wind. I have had the door flung open by the wind on our present camper, but it just hit the bumper, no harm done, just noisy.

Thanks! Good post. -Darla

[bound4fl]

myrvplans1 wrote:

bound4fl wrote:
WOW reading this thread is like watching a train wreck.

Ok, can your 15 minutes of fame be up now? -Darla

I don't need 15 minutes of fame. But thanks

[myrvplans1]

AirForceAngler wrote:

myrvplans1 wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Darla, I really believe more thought is required of the door situation. Unless there are three locking points on the knob side, you are pretty much guaranteed to have periodic leaks. House doors open inward for security (hinges inside, harder to pry open), ability to easily add screen/storm door, and are not usually trying to resist 60 mph winds. I also looked at reversing the door on my build, but rejected it because of the leak issue. There are ways of mitigating the wind blowing the door upon opening.

[COLOR=]Hey Grandpa, I am putting more thought into the door situation, but I don't yet have enough facts to abandon the idea just yet. Taking the pros-cons of which way a door swings out of the equation for just a moment are rain/leaks really a factor in a door that swings inward? Is there any way to seal such a door from leaks? Are leaks more likely to be an issue in transit or while parked?

I'm just not understanding why leaks would occur in a door that is designed to seal properly. I get really heavy rain on my home front entry door all the time and that thing never leaks. Even when I turn on my lawn sprinklers near my door...never a drop. If this is really an issue then why do you think inward doors are the dominant choice for all these tiny RV homes that are popping up all over the place?

1) Is this an engineering issue?
2) Please share your thoughts on mitigating the wind.

Thanks! Good post. -Darla

What you should do is put in a door that hinges down like a ramp! Then you could just wheel yourself and your ego right up into your box/trailer!

"If being an egomaniac means I believe in what I do and in my art or music, then in that respect you can call me that... I believe in what I do, and I'll say it.” ... John Lennon