What could I be missing?

[txdxrider]

Hi all - new member - have been researching a LOT lately and just looking for some verification..

We are looking into TT fulltime (for a year or so) to give the kids a different view of NA starting spring 15...

There will be 5 in the TV self, DW, and three boys 14 and downward, and a dog - most (if not all) gear will be in the TT.

TV is going to be a 2009 Suburban Z71 4WD - 66K miles 5.3l with 3.42 gears - 6-speed auto - NO HD Tow package - est trailer weight 7900# per MSRP and stickers.

Stock I have pulled a 4300# full size Bronco on a 2K# trailer - but only for a few hours - looking at a 27ft Heartland 24BHS - dry weight @5500# - so loaded should be 6500# to 6800#....

Current mods to do to TV - steel brake lines, K9000 adj shocks, Trans Cooler, Trailer Brake controller, upgrade the OEM hitch, load equilizer - at the same time do a fresh trans flush, brake flush, pads (about due anyway)-so starting out up-to-date.

Trying to keep the current TV instead of moving to a P/U since the room in the burb makes traveling so much easier - but havent ruled out an older excursion or 2500burb - would rather not change the TV

Am I being too optomistic on what the burb will handle, or should I look at a TT closer to 4500# dry..

Thank you in advance...

[Tystevens]

We have a '10 Suburban 1500, so very similar to the OPs. Ours has the K5L package installed, 3.42 gears, etc. Our trailer is 6000-6500#, tongue weight around 800# when water tanks are full. We have a family of 6, but our kids are all small, so our total family weight is about 500#.

The combo does fine. We don't win any races. We move along in gears 3-5 most of the time, with the occasional dip into 2nd going up a decent hill. Not my ideal package, but it gets the job done. Most importantly, it has never felt unsafe or unstable in any respect.

One thing though -- I don't know that you can install a heavier hitch on it. The hitch on ours is basically built in to the cross member at the rear of the frame. Seems to be an 'it is what it is' situation.

For what it is worth, I can't imagine full-timing in a trailer that the OP identified, at least with a family of 5. Our TT doesn't have a slide, but is otherwise quite similar, and there is major claustrophobia when we are all inside that thing, even only for a couple days! I like the OP's ambition, but I would think you would need a significantly larger trailer to avoid going crazy. At least, I would.

[BurbMan]

txdxrider wrote:
Ok..... So weight full of fuel with passengers - 6625
Front axle - 3375....sticker is 3600
Rear axle - 3250.....sticker is 4200
GVWR of 7400 so good up to circa 700 hitch weight

Stock I am GCWR of 11,500
So 4875 left over....

Once I do the mods for the hd towing - GCWR of 14,000
So good around 6500 pounds TW

If you look at a trailer that is 4500 lbs fully loaded (not dry), you can expect an average of 13% of that to be tongue weight that is carried by the truck. So 4500 x .13 = 585 lbs tongue weight. Subtract that from the 7400-6625=775 that you have available for cargo and you are right there. That leaves 775-585=190 lbs for stuff in the back of the burb.

A 4500 lb trailer added to the burb at 7400 gives you GCWR of 7400+4500=12,000 lbs, within your new "post-mod" number.

So you are really looking at trailer with dry weights in the 3500 lb range, which I think may a little on the small side to full time with a large family. Suburbans are very capable tow vehicles, but as with any SUV, you can tow a lot or you haul a lot, but not both at the same time. We found that the 1200 lb TW of our trailer ate considerably into the 8600 lb GVWR, and with 3 kids (our 2 and a friend) the scale told us were at 8600 lbs.

You will find that modding the truck is a slippery slope, as it will never be "quite" up to the task...been there, done that, spent the $$ and got the T-shirt!

I would suggest that you reverse this process and first select the trailer that you think will serve you well as a full timing family. Then get what you need to pull it, likely a 3500 series van with either a big block or a diesel.

Your numbers and thought process are right on, I just think you are running out of lipstick to put on this pig....

[jerem0621]

Dayle1 wrote:
My last 1500 pickup had the 5.3L, 3.73 axle, only a 5 spd and an aux. 41 gal. fuel tank. My trailer had a GVWR of 6550 lbs and I had it loaded within a few hundred lbs of GVWR. So, I was around 12K combined. While overall the combo did fine, there was no power margin for adverse conditions. Couldn't run the A/C while climbing a moderate grade and with strong head winds, couldn't maintain speed with the A/C on. This resulted in more frequent shifting and driver fatigue. OK for a few hours, but long trips get really, really long, and not just for the driver plus greater difficulties at the end of the day setting up camp.

I tend to agree with others, a more capable tow vehicle and a larger TT will make the entire journey more pleasant and rewarding. People suggest keeping weights under 80% of max. for many reasons. Plus with full-time travel and a large family, you will add weight as the trip progresses.

Excellent post! I personally understand that not everyone needs a HD truck to haul with. It depends on what you are hauling. I love and prefer a half ton truck for everyday driving.

However, me and my family weigh close to 800 lbs before we put anything else in the truck with us. And 50 lbs of food, 100 lbs of cooler, and 1200 lbs of tongue weight And we are sitting at 2000 lbs on the truck before bikes and firewood...lol.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Dayle1]

My last 1500 pickup had the 5.3L, 3.73 axle, only a 5 spd and an aux. 41 gal. fuel tank. My trailer had a GVWR of 6550 lbs and I had it loaded within a few hundred lbs of GVWR. So, I was around 12K combined. While overall the combo did fine, there was no power margin for adverse conditions. Couldn't run the A/C while climbing a moderate grade and with strong head winds, couldn't maintain speed with the A/C on. This resulted in more frequent shifting and driver fatigue. OK for a few hours, but long trips get really, really long, and not just for the driver plus greater difficulties at the end of the day setting up camp.

I tend to agree with others, a more capable tow vehicle and a larger TT will make the entire journey more pleasant and rewarding. People suggest keeping weights under 80% of max. for many reasons. Plus with full-time travel and a large family, you will add weight as the trip progresses.

[txdxrider]

Ok..... So weight full of fuel with passengers - 6625
Front axle - 3375....sticker is 3600
Rear axle - 3250.....sticker is 4200
GVWR of 7400 so good up to circa 700 hitch weight

Stock I am GCWR of 11,500
So 4875 left over....

Once I do the mods for the hd towing - GCWR of 14,000
So good around 6500 pounds TW

[ryanw821]

Volkov wrote:

txdxrider wrote:


Bruce, the sticker shows the following:


Combined weight of pass/cargo 1410# (I used the range since I will be upgrading to obtain a higher tow and cargo amount, but trying to stay short as to not overload.

So based off these numbers 1410-850 = 560- or right at the limits of the stock hitch but under with a higher hitch.

Would like to do a 5th wheel or a larger TT- but that would mean a different TV- and certainly not wanting to go with a pickup - interior space and all for 5 would be cramped to say the least.

Your planned modifications won't increase the cargo capacity. They will certainly improve the towing competance of the Suburban, but axles limits are axle limits.
Based on the numbers you give above, you will have 560# of capacity left for the tongue weight. That means a 4500# trailer fully loaded if you are going to keep within the cargo capacity.
Having towed with both a 1500 and 2500 Yukon XL, I do know the differences. We were at the razor's edge for our 1500 towing a 5000# vintage Airstream (reknowned for being easy to tow and designed to have a low tongue weight) and we had the full trailering package. Did do it for years, and including driving the Rockies without any incidents. 2500 is just soooo much nicer an experience.
I would echo previous sentiments; I would rather be cramming 3 kids in the second row of a bigger TV while driving than cramming 5 plus a dog in a 4500# trailer for a year.

Not only that but you have to factor in the weight of the mods, that eats into your carrying capacity, you put too much weight in mods, gear, and people, you might not have enough left to haul a pop-up.

This is coming from a guy who is towing at the maximum my vehicle can handle, I have about 50lbs to play with in carrying capacity, so we load everything we need in the TT, though we camp pretty light, not much in extras. Anyone who wants to camp with us just has to drive separate 😉

[Volkov]

txdxrider wrote:


Bruce, the sticker shows the following:


Combined weight of pass/cargo 1410# (I used the range since I will be upgrading to obtain a higher tow and cargo amount, but trying to stay short as to not overload.

So based off these numbers 1410-850 = 560- or right at the limits of the stock hitch but under with a higher hitch.

Would like to do a 5th wheel or a larger TT- but that would mean a different TV- and certainly not wanting to go with a pickup - interior space and all for 5 would be cramped to say the least.

Your planned modifications won't increase the cargo capacity. They will certainly improve the towing competance of the Suburban, but axles limits are axle limits.
Based on the numbers you give above, you will have 560# of capacity left for the tongue weight. That means a 4500# trailer fully loaded if you are going to keep within the cargo capacity.
Having towed with both a 1500 and 2500 Yukon XL, I do know the differences. We were at the razor's edge for our 1500 towing a 5000# vintage Airstream (reknowned for being easy to tow and designed to have a low tongue weight) and we had the full trailering package. Did do it for years, and including driving the Rockies without any incidents. 2500 is just soooo much nicer an experience.
I would echo previous sentiments; I would rather be cramming 3 kids in the second row of a bigger TV while driving than cramming 5 plus a dog in a 4500# trailer for a year.

[spoon059]

txdxrider wrote:
Combined weight of pass/cargo 1410# (I used the range since I will be upgrading to obtain a higher tow and cargo amount, but trying to stay short as to not overload.

Not sure I understand what this means... care to clarify?

One other option to consider is a 3/4 or 1 ton van. Much more room for the family, higher weight ratings and the higher profile of the van might help with reducing drag effect from trailer.

[txdxrider]

Thanks to all for the suggestions it has been very informative.

Bruce, the sticker shows the following:

GVWR 7400#
GAWRF 3600#
GAWRR 4200#
Combined weight of pass/cargo 1410# (I used the range since I will be upgrading to obtain a higher tow and cargo amount, but trying to stay short as to not overload.

So based off these numbers 1410-850 = 560- or right at the limits of the stock hitch but under with a higher hitch.

Would like to do a 5th wheel or a larger TT- but that would mean a different TV- and certainly not wanting to go with a pickup - interior space and all for 5 would be cramped to say the least.

Luckily we are still very early in the game- mostly online research- waiting for the next major RV show to look at many options at one time - so a new TV may still be in the cards...

[Land28BH]

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

It looks to me that you understand what you need, and have it together. The tranny cooler is a good idea.

If the OEM tires are "P" (passenger), not "LT" (light truck), I would seriously consider upgrading them. LT allows Load Range C, equivalent to the old 6-ply, "D"~8-ply, "E"~10-ply etc.

The TT (any length) will drag a lot more wind than the trailered Bronco. It wouldn't hurt to plan on 55 mph on the flats, if you can take the pace. Large hills might be slower, and the truck will thank you for somewhat less than wide open uphill.

Have a great trip and keep us informed.

Wes
...

Ditto - Probably one the best mods to a 1/2 ton vehicle at the upper end of it's weight range. I have routinely pulled much more with a 1500 pickup (same family size but much older kids) and did just fine with gear change and tires only.

Also, you will likely have a hitch weight much closer to 10% than what other poster mentioned. My trailer is less than 10% and I am trying to find a way to add/move some weight to the front for better towing characteristics (trying to eliminate the last little bit of sway tendency), but I have been pulling this TT this way for years.

[Mvander]

OP. You will likely be over on some of your trucks ratings. If your ok with that then be prepared for a different experience then towing a car hauler with bronco. A travel trailer makes a bronco look like one of those mpg cars university students build for competitions.

[nomad297]

txdxrider wrote:
Well UNDER the estimated 1400-1600# cargo

1400-1600#?

The sticker on your driver's side door post will give a definitive number, not a range. What is the payload as stated on this sticker?

Bruce

[dodge_guy]

I see nothing wrong with using the Burb with the trailer and weight you have planned. I had a 97 Dodge conv. van that towed a similar length and weight trailer with no issues. I had 3.90 gears. with the 3.42`s and the 6 speed auto your gearing will end up near what I had. I see no issues. You definitely want to go to a load range "C" or "D" tire. and yes around 12% tongue weight is what you are after.

[azwildcat99]

I know it's a little outside the topic but if I were fulltiming with my family I'd sacrifice on the comfortable TV to get a larger, more comfortable trailer. 2-3 weeks is one thing, but a year or more, I'd want a larger TT or 5th wheel.

That said I think your right to look at 4500 or less with that combo and a loaded TV. Good luck!