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What's with the ridgey exterior walls on the Jayco TTs?

MookieKat
Explorer
Explorer
Why would they use the ridgey outside walls like that? It looks like it would create more wind resistance and be less aerodynamic. Also looks tough to keep clean! I have seen old TTs with dirt in every groove.
116 REPLIES 116

tatest
Explorer II
Explorer II
The grooves make the aluminum siding stiffer for a given thickness of material, and thinner siding is lighter.

Manufacturers did this also with other materials, including fiberglass before it became practice to laminate the skin to a core, so that the core material stiffened the wall.

There are a lot of different RV manufacturing practices, tradeoffs among cost of materials, labor, and capital equipment for labor-saving and time-saving methods. There are also tradeoffs of strength versus weight.

There are TTs with molded shells, wood frames, aluminum frames. Framed walls can be covered with aluminum or plastic skins, with either framing material. Fiberglass skins can be smooth or have ridges.

Many RVs are built today with no wall framing, rather the skin is laminated to a core, the skin can be aluminum or fiberglass or some other composite, and will most likely be smooth, though when Winnebago first developed the technology they used a corrugated skin. Cores can be different foam materials, or honeycomb or corrugated; foams are popular for insulation.

There are enough options that you don't have to buy ridgey outside walls. Most people will argue that their choice of construction technique is the best, even if they don't understand how their RV was made and believe it to be something different that what it really is, because the salesman convinced them.
Tom Test
Itasca Spirit 29B

certified106
Explorer
Explorer
Proteus wrote:
Terryallan wrote:

I'd rather drive a truck too. And in truth. No one is going to tow ant TT of any size with a "normal" vehicle. Unless like me. You think a truck IS a normal vehicle. There are only 2 kinds of home owners. Those who have a truck, and those who need a truck. Trucks are needed for WAAAAY more than just towing a RV.


The truck prejudice here is exactly what is wrong with the US RV industry. I don't have a truck. I just safely towed a 6000lb+ trailer for 2k miles through two national parks. Pray tell, what would I want, or need a truck for? If I need to haul a bunch of****** the dump perhaps? I could see it for towing a large 5th wheel, or a full time trailer, but not a standard vacation travel trailer.

Bottom line is there are lots of people in the US, who, like their counterparts in Europe and Australia would like to tow high quality, well designed trailers with efficient and comfortable daily drivers. There just seems to be a lack of high end options out there....


Call me prejudiced then because there is no way in (you no where) that I would ever pull a #6000lb TT of length with a unibody SUV. I grew up in the country and have seen the results of pulling and trying to stop large loads with small/short wheel based vehicles and the results of large loads pushing small vehicles around. I think I will just keep my truck. Glad you are happy with your setup it's just not for me.
2004.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins
Hypertech Tuner Running Stage 2
2013 Jayco 28BHS

gmw_photos
Explorer
Explorer
WoodGlue wrote:
The time is usually anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, depending on what kind of adhesive is used in the vacuum process.

Every manufacturer has different tolerances.

I hope this helps

WoodGlue


Yes indeed. It might be better stated that "every manufacturer has different specifications"

The truth of the matter is in the manufacturing and production process there are many details that have to be correct for it all to come together in the end as a finished product that can perform to design specs.

Let's take the example of a wall assembly for a travel trailer. First we would go to the adhesive manufacturer and explain to them what the materials are that we are bonding. They would make a recommendation of what adhesive to use, based on design parameters. Once we have decided on the materials and proper adhesive, the good folks at the adhesive manufacturer would tell us what surface prep, clamping pressure, procedure, time and temperature for correct use of the product.

Guess what ? At the end of the day here....the correct process may involve.....vacuum bonding. Imagine that....a process that is widely used in many industries can very well be the correct method.

Making statements like "vacuum bonding is a EPIC FAIL" is not a correct statement. One needs to know more about what the underlying details are in the parts being manufactured.

Edit: by the way, in case anybody cares, the correct answer to pressure applied in a vacuum bonding scenario is "atmospheric pressure", which is right at 14 pounds per sq inch.

Proteus
Explorer
Explorer
Terryallan wrote:

I'd rather drive a truck too. And in truth. No one is going to tow ant TT of any size with a "normal" vehicle. Unless like me. You think a truck IS a normal vehicle. There are only 2 kinds of home owners. Those who have a truck, and those who need a truck. Trucks are needed for WAAAAY more than just towing a RV.


The truck prejudice here is exactly what is wrong with the US RV industry. I don't have a truck. I just safely towed a 6000lb+ trailer for 2k miles through two national parks. Pray tell, what would I want, or need a truck for? If I need to haul a bunch of****** the dump perhaps? I could see it for towing a large 5th wheel, or a full time trailer, but not a standard vacation travel trailer.

Bottom line is there are lots of people in the US, who, like their counterparts in Europe and Australia would like to tow high quality, well designed trailers with efficient and comfortable daily drivers. There just seems to be a lack of high end options out there....

Proteus
Explorer
Explorer
TxTiger wrote:


1) Residential construction methods are proven and go back much further than the 1950's. I've not seen any laminated/bonded luan/Azdel constructed single/multi-family residenses in my area.

2) Wood does rot if it stays wet. Catch the leak in time and you're ok. Even minor leaks in fiberglass sided trailers can turn them into a money pit to repair if they delam.

3) I own several trucks. Some like my half ton Silverado is a great daily driver and very comfy on trips. It gets over 20 mpg on the road. Not sure what a "normal" vehicle is. A Ford Focus?


1) Residential construction methods are just that, for homes, not for trailers. And even then, it's mostly for lower end or mid range homes.

2) fiberglass trailers only delam if they're made with plywood, not Azdel, composited, etc.

3) to each their own, but you'll never convince me a body on frame truck is a comfortable daily driver, and I've been in a few. Bouncy rides, poor handling, grunting engines just don't do it for me. Oh, and I get 30mpg highway with my diesel SUV ๐Ÿ™‚

WoodGlue
Explorer
Explorer
The time is usually anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, depending on what kind of adhesive is used in the vacuum process.

Every manufacturer has different tolerances.

I hope this helps

WoodGlue
2002 Land Rover Discovery II
2014 Lance 1685 - Loaded - 4 Seasons - Solar - 2 AGM's
When Hell Freezes Over - I'll Camp There Too!
Lance Travel Trailer Info - Lance 1685 Travel Trailer - Lance 1575 Trailer

WoodGlue
Explorer
Explorer
gmw photos wrote:
Woodglue,

Can you tell me how much clamping pressure is applied when utilizing a vacuum bonding procedure ?

Also, can you tell me what the correct clamping pressure and time is for the adhesive that might be in use for these different constructions ?

thanks.

Hi there,

I have those numbers somewhere around here. If I don't post them today, please remind me! I do know that it's oftentimes measured in percentages (%) It also has to do with the type of adhesive being utilized. For instance, Lamilux has their own set numbers.

120 - 130 pounds per square inch is one number I just found. And that's vacuum pressure, not clamping.

WoodGlue
2002 Land Rover Discovery II
2014 Lance 1685 - Loaded - 4 Seasons - Solar - 2 AGM's
When Hell Freezes Over - I'll Camp There Too!
Lance Travel Trailer Info - Lance 1685 Travel Trailer - Lance 1575 Trailer

Terryallan
Explorer II
Explorer II
TxTiger wrote:
Proteus wrote:
I won't even consider a "stick and tin" trailer for the following reasons.
1) it's cheap crap, pushed because it uses residential construction techniques and requires minimal worker training, and no special factory machinery. 1950s era tech.,,
2) wood gets wet, and rots. Insulation "batts" retain water, and shift.
3) it creates trailers that are far heavier than they need to be, and require large trucks to pull. A truck is a horrible daily driver. They handle like crap, with lousy gas mileage. Why buy one just to pull a trailer? Why not buy a trailer at can be pulled with a normal vehicle?


1) Residential construction methods are proven and go back much further than the 1950's. I've not seen any laminated/bonded luan/Azdel constructed single/multi-family residenses in my area.

2) Wood does rot if it stays wet. Catch the leak in time and you're ok. Even minor leaks in fiberglass sided trailers can turn them into a money pit to repair if they delam.

3) I own several trucks. Some like my half ton Silverado is a great daily driver and very comfy on trips. It gets over 20 mpg on the road. Not sure what a "normal" vehicle is. A Ford Focus?


I'd rather drive a truck too. And in truth. No one is going to tow ant TT of any size with a "normal" vehicle. Unless like me. You think a truck IS a normal vehicle. There are only 2 kinds of home owners. Those who have a truck, and those who need a truck. Trucks are needed for WAAAAY more than just towing a RV.
Terry & Shay
Coachman Apex 288BH.
2013 F150 XLT Off Road
5.0, 3.73
Lazy Campers

gmw_photos
Explorer
Explorer
WoodGlue wrote:
Vacuum bonding the wrong way is an EPIC FAIL on the part of most, if not all RV mfgs. This sets the stage for almost certain delamination issues!

WoodGlue


Woodglue,

Can you tell me how much clamping pressure is applied when utilizing a vacuum bonding procedure ?

Also, can you tell me what the correct clamping pressure and time is for the adhesive that might be in use for these different constructions ?

thanks.

TxTiger
Explorer
Explorer
Proteus wrote:
I won't even consider a "stick and tin" trailer for the following reasons.
1) it's cheap crap, pushed because it uses residential construction techniques and requires minimal worker training, and no special factory machinery. 1950s era tech.,,
2) wood gets wet, and rots. Insulation "batts" retain water, and shift.
3) it creates trailers that are far heavier than they need to be, and require large trucks to pull. A truck is a horrible daily driver. They handle like crap, with lousy gas mileage. Why buy one just to pull a trailer? Why not buy a trailer at can be pulled with a normal vehicle?


1) Residential construction methods are proven and go back much further than the 1950's. I've not seen any laminated/bonded luan/Azdel constructed single/multi-family residenses in my area.

2) Wood does rot if it stays wet. Catch the leak in time and you're ok. Even minor leaks in fiberglass sided trailers can turn them into a money pit to repair if they delam.

3) I own several trucks. Some like my half ton Silverado is a great daily driver and very comfy on trips. It gets over 20 mpg on the road. Not sure what a "normal" vehicle is. A Ford Focus?
2000 F250, 7.3 PSD, 6 speed manual, CC, SB
2013 Northstar TC800

Proteus
Explorer
Explorer
The stick and tin trailers are heavier across the board. Someone mentioned "only #700lbs" lighter? That is a big difference, unless you're towing with a large truck! And why would I want to do that? My unibody SUV gets better mileage towing a 6000lb trailer, than my neighbors truck based Expedition does empty!

Doug33
Explorer
Explorer
TxTiger wrote:
Check out some of the KZ TT's. Many stick and tin, lightweight yet quality construction. My toy hauler has marine grade plywood flooring, (not OSB), walk on plywood roof decking, well equipped but nothing fancy, more than adequate axles, tires and wheels as opposed to marginal. 2 year warranty and great customer service.


My previous TT was a KZ "stick and tin" and held up fine for 8 years before I traded it in. Once I brushed up against a big pine tree backing into the side of my house (said tree has been since cut down). It partially dented the top piece of aluminum siding along the side near the front. I wonder what would have happened with my new Keystone fiberglass TT?
2014 Keystone Bullet 281BHS
2002 Chevy Avalanche 5.3L 4x4
Equalizer hitch
Nights spent camping in 2015: 25
Next trip: mid-April 2016?

Terryallan
Explorer II
Explorer II
beemerphile1 wrote:
Call me crazy but it has always been my understanding that stick and tin is lighter than the fiberglass sided trailers.


Luan Laminated fiberglass maybe. But not AZDEL. My previous Aluminium sided TT was 27' bumper to ball, had no slide, and only one permanent bed.

The new TT, made with AZDEL. Is 31', has a 15' slide. 1 Queen bed, and 2 full bunks. And is 169 lbs lighter.
Terry & Shay
Coachman Apex 288BH.
2013 F150 XLT Off Road
5.0, 3.73
Lazy Campers

certified106
Explorer
Explorer
(Woops double post)
2004.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins
Hypertech Tuner Running Stage 2
2013 Jayco 28BHS

certified106
Explorer
Explorer
beemerphile1 wrote:
Call me crazy but it has always been my understanding that stick and tin is lighter than the fiberglass sided trailers.


If you start looking at the weights of many trailers regardless of how they are built they are pretty darn close to the same. My 28BHS is maybe 700# lighter than the Jayco Ultralight of the same length.
2004.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins
Hypertech Tuner Running Stage 2
2013 Jayco 28BHS