Why shouldn't I go this route? (AC Roof Delete)

[adamis]

In my previous post I discussed a basic plan of upgrades I have been contemplating for my camper. One of those included removing the roof top AC unit altogether and going with a Truma Air Combo Heater / AC unit like this.

Edit: Just found this as the Truma Air is only for European markets. This looks to be for US markets.

It is a AC / Heater unit designed to fit under a bed or in my case the dinette seating in place of the current furnace. Granted, this is for the European market so it is setup for 240v but that is fust a flip of a switch on an inverter so not a big deal in my opinion.

I recently connected with a boat repair shop and we discussed some future projects on the exterior of the camper to include removing the rear awning (never used and weathered anyway). Removing an older rigid solar panel on the roof held on by screws and sealing screw holes. Removing radio antenna from roof. Removing AC unit from roof and deleting opening entirely and finally, possibly removing the railing on the rear of the roof camper and sealing all of those holes.

All of this is in preparation of resealing the entire roof and then laying down as much solar as we can. 400w should be easy but 600w or more are probably also doable using custom solar panels (flexible time held down with eternabond tape). The goal in this is to eliminate as many screw holes and openings on the roof and open up as much space as possible for solar.

Getting back to the AC unit. I've been contemplating going with this Truma Air Saphire unit that can be installed under the dinette where the current furnace is. I can reuse all of the ducting as well making installation a breeze.

These are all pretty big upgrades but the end goal is to have a sealed roof with as little penetrations as necessary and a new AC unit that can be run off of the solar and batteries.

Does anyone have any experience with something similar? Or, does anyone know of something similar to the Truma Air that is an alternative?

[pianotuna]

Killingsworth wrote:
Adamis,
I have been looking into the "ecoflow" system for a variety of reasons.
Google "Delta Pro" "EcoFlow" They produce a entire system that works well for RV life, including a A/C unit, Dual fuel generator, gasoline/propane and other devices.
It is well worth a look

It is over priced.

[Killingsworth]

Adamis,
I have been looking into the "ecoflow" system for a variety of reasons.
Google "Delta Pro" "EcoFlow" They produce a entire system that works well for RV life, including a A/C unit, Dual fuel generator, gasoline/propane and other devices.
It is well worth a look

[pianotuna]

adamis,


Look under school buses?

[adamis]

Well, came to a bit of a complication... In my research on both the Truma Air and the Pioneer under bench units, it turns out they are designed to be vented through the floor while the location I was looking at, it has to vent out the side. There technically is enough space I think to put together some sort of ductwork to achieve what is needed but that makes installation way more complicated than I am necessarily looking for. It isn't that I couldn't do it but I am not sure I want to modify the camper that much just for my kicks and giggles project.

in light of this development, I have a few options...

1. Abandon the project entirely and stick with a new roof top AC unit (what is the fun and learning in that)?...

2. Keep searching for a unit that vents out the side like I need.

3. Modify my bench to allow for ducting to make the Truma Air or Pinoeer work as required.

4. Build my own AC unit for exactly what I want and then create a company and sell it to truck camper builders.

I have the skills and resources to tackle step 4 but not necessarily the bandwidth (I already have a few businesses I'm running). Unless there is an option I have not found, I am surprised there isn't an AC/Heater heat pump designed specifically for the truck camper market.

It is going to take some thinking on this to see where I want to go.

[Bedlam]

We have pets that stay in AC while we are out. When it is like this, we seek a hookup or run the generator.

[mbloof]

adamis wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
The reality of this discussion is you're not going to get anything but armchair quarterbacking and naysaying, as nobody has experience with doing what you are trying to do. It's not like installing fender flares.

The reason you aren't seeing a lot of people doing it is because it's impractical.

When you do find the rare person claiming to have done it, they gloss over the severe limitations. Just because most of us have looked at the numbers and realized it's not practical doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about.

No naysaying, show us the numbers for a system that works. Either you can or you can't.

What we have discovered in other discussions is that this will work in some parts of the country and might not in other parts. On the West Coast, even on hot days we typically need the AC to run maybe for lunch while on the road and for an hour or two in the evening to cool the camper down. Most of the places you want to camp are going to cool down in the evening so only 2 to 3 hours of AC run time are necessary to make a substantial impact on camping experience.

Contrast that with folks in the South where it stays hot and humid throughout the day and evening and the AC needs to run 24/7 then solar and batteries won't cut it. However, there is still a lot of advantage in those locations to being able to run the AC on battery for two or three hours and I still think would be worthwhile for those inclined to do it. If you end up needing more, you are already lugging around a generator anyway or plugging into shore power so you aren't taking away your options, just adding to them.

A much simpler solution for the "camping experience" is to actually experience camping.

Many folks (myself included) are only in our truck campers to: sleep and maybe eat, use rest room and eat. (unless of course foul weather drives us inside)

While an hour or two of AC might come in handy while on the road to a destination while getting lunch in the camper, once actually at a camp spot opening the windows/vents and using a fan 'just works' for most of us.

Granted YMMV and obviously different folks have different definitions and expectations of 'camping'.


- Mark0.

[valhalla360]

adamis wrote:

What we have discovered in other discussions is that this will work in some parts of the country and might not in other parts. On the West Coast, even on hot days we typically need the AC to run maybe for lunch while on the road and for an hour or two in the evening to cool the camper down. Most of the places you want to camp are going to cool down in the evening so only 2 to 3 hours of AC run time are necessary to make a substantial impact on camping experience.

Contrast that with folks in the South where it stays hot and humid throughout the day and evening and the AC needs to run 24/7 then solar and batteries won't cut it. However, there is still a lot of advantage in those locations to being able to run the AC on battery for two or three hours and I still think would be worthwhile for those inclined to do it. If you end up needing more, you are already lugging around a generator anyway or plugging into shore power so you aren't taking away your options, just adding to them.

So basically, if you don't really need air/con, it will run the air/con for long enough is what you are suggesting.

If you can run it for an hour or two in the evening and then it's cool enough the rest of the night...I've found in those conditions a shady site and/or the windows open/fans blowing thru will cool it to comfortable levels quicker.

If we are just stopping for lunch and it's hot, by the time it's cooling off noticeably, we would typically be back on the road.

It's such a narrow window of usefulness it's really not worth the trouble. Doubly so when you figure in the high cost and complexity of building a system that can run for even these short time periods.

Now if you are deep into building a big solar/battery systems and know all the pros and cons and how you would use it, have at it. But for the random person with little prior knowledge, highlighting the severe limitations compared to the cost & complexity of implementation, for most it's just silly to think it's a reasonable option.

[time2roll]

If I could push the 2 hour run time into 4 to 6 hours through a more efficient chiller that would be worth considering IMO. More effective than going 2x or 3x on battery and solar. Otherwise the existing plan will work fine for what it is.

[Grit_dog]

Ok, I live on the "West Coast" and while what you say may be true on a "travel" day where you only use the camper at lunch and then beginning in the evening, there isn't a chance in ____ that your camper doesn't get screamin hot sitting about anywhere in Cali that you can reasonably drive it to, ALL day on an average summer day...

This thought is even less practical than $750 shocks, unfortunately.

The endless pursuit for a better mousetrap is what makes the world go around. But many/most times, re-inventing the wheel is less than fruitful.


Or think of it this way, IF what you're proposing was even remotely practical or cost effective, do you not think that at least a few of the 100s? of RV manufacturers would not have already employed this idea?

[adamis]

valhalla360 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
The reality of this discussion is you're not going to get anything but armchair quarterbacking and naysaying, as nobody has experience with doing what you are trying to do. It's not like installing fender flares.

The reason you aren't seeing a lot of people doing it is because it's impractical.

When you do find the rare person claiming to have done it, they gloss over the severe limitations. Just because most of us have looked at the numbers and realized it's not practical doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about.

No naysaying, show us the numbers for a system that works. Either you can or you can't.

What we have discovered in other discussions is that this will work in some parts of the country and might not in other parts. On the West Coast, even on hot days we typically need the AC to run maybe for lunch while on the road and for an hour or two in the evening to cool the camper down. Most of the places you want to camp are going to cool down in the evening so only 2 to 3 hours of AC run time are necessary to make a substantial impact on camping experience.

Contrast that with folks in the South where it stays hot and humid throughout the day and evening and the AC needs to run 24/7 then solar and batteries won't cut it. However, there is still a lot of advantage in those locations to being able to run the AC on battery for two or three hours and I still think would be worthwhile for those inclined to do it. If you end up needing more, you are already lugging around a generator anyway or plugging into shore power so you aren't taking away your options, just adding to them.

[valhalla360]

mkirsch wrote:
The reality of this discussion is you're not going to get anything but armchair quarterbacking and naysaying, as nobody has experience with doing what you are trying to do. It's not like installing fender flares.

The reason you aren't seeing a lot of people doing it is because it's impractical.

When you do find the rare person claiming to have done it, they gloss over the severe limitations. Just because most of us have looked at the numbers and realized it's not practical doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about.

No naysaying, show us the numbers for a system that works. Either you can or you can't.

[Samsonsworld]

By current ductwork, you mean the furnace ducts? I can't imagine it would cool very well blowing at your feet. Think I'd rather have the topside A/C since cool air falls.

[StirCrazy]

I saw this and though neat, then I started working out some numbers if you ran it on 12V power. start up 400amps for 150ms , cooling 84 amps , heating 74 amps. now these are maximum numbers but are you only useing this plugged in? or are you towing a trailer with a huge battery bank and fold up awnings on each side loaded with solar panels.

I don't have AC in my camper so I am not sure what that takes but in my 5th wheel I can run it if I am luckey on a 15 amp circut some times , so I imagin it is surging to 18ish amps on start up. so this is more efficient than normal ac units, but this is a little over 1/2 the output of a 13.5btu ac unit at 8200 btu, and for heat it is only 5797btu. so how long will it have to run to do a simluar job or will it even keep up? I like the idea of a heat pump though if you going to be plugged in, but for heat in the fall I don't think you can beat the good old propane furnace using a whopping 2.9 amps of 12V.

[mkirsch]

Bus Grease Monkey on youtube put some sort of heat pump system on his personal bus a couple of years ago and was real happy with it.

Of course he had a little more room for the unit and the solar paneling, as he has a BUS.

The reality of this discussion is you're not going to get anything but armchair quarterbacking and naysaying, as nobody has experience with doing what you are trying to do. It's not like installing fender flares.