Avion truck campers - Hundreds of photos

[67avion]

Without going into too much painful detail, we had a mishap several week-ends ago. While working with sand bag crews on the Mississippi River, the truck and camper fell into the flood waters as a road collapsed. Because of a number of issues dealing with the wrecker truck, we had to release the camper as the truck was reeled up over the bank. The good news is that the truck is as good as new after a thorough rinsing, inspection of brakes, etc. The bad news is that the camper was thoroughly drowned. A lot of people had far worse trouble than we did, so we consider ourselves lucky. The floods are ongoing as I write.

Our planned trip to Montana in June is called off. heh.

However, I have now convinced my dear Jane that its time to really update the TC. After drying for several days we pulled out the interior. Amazingly the Zolatone paint that I had applied last year is good as new after a cleaning.



Without burdening the TC family overmuch, I'd like to ask some advice other than don't park too near a flood :-).

My DW was overjoyed that I had a plan for the bathroom: a composting toilet developed by Nature's Head http://www.natureshead.net/. Our holding tank was practically unusable and there was no real grey water tank on the 67 Avion. Our plan is to rip out the bathroom and install one of these and converting the blackwater to a greywater tank. Any experience with this?

Finally, the roof. I admit that I have not really done the work I should have. Now, I need to remove the various sealants on the roof and repair it. We are also setting up for a solar installation. Any advice as to this?



Here's hoping I have posted the pictures correctly. And many thanks in advance for your advice.

[ticki2]

67 Avion removed all his cabinets on his C-10 to refinish and will have a good idea of the best sequence . Take lots of pictures before and during disassembly so you remember how it goes back together .I would tend to remove and replace one section at a time so the overall structure keeps its shape .

[rastaman33609]

Its been quiet here, am I the only one working on one of these things?

Yesterday I started my repairs. I got all the old over head bunk flooring out, and the passenger side sofa frame. I was also able to remove the front dinette area over the water tank, Then I removed the water tank.

I have decide that I will repair the bunk and passenger side wing first before attacking the drivers side wing,,Is there any wisdom in this plan?

From the pictures I have seen I am assuming it will be possible to remove the entire lower cabinet as one piece once the stove, sink,and refridge are removed, is this correct. as that will be my intention.

there is some damage in the closet floor,so I am thinking now would be a good a time as ever to to address that area.

Thanks to all of those who have gone down this road before and kind enough to shear their experience. Now that I am knee deep into it, I feel like I am in familiar territory, and have a certain level of confidence that I know what I am doing 🙂

[D1trout]

69cayo, as usual, you nailed it! Just the thing to get rastaman going down the road. Your pictures have been a great help to me in my rebuild. Rastaman, if you can duplicate this set-up, you'll be doing well.
As far as water intrusion in my rig, revealed when I stripped out the insulation, I can't comment with any great accuracy. The fellow I bought Argo from had him washed at a truck wash a couple of times in preparation for my coming to inspect it so there was a lot of dampness throughout. When I began disassembling Argo, the whole cabover floor was very wet. There was rotten wood at the front end of each of the wings above the wheel wells. The corners of the floor above the bustle were rotted. The forward bulkhead had a rotten corner. You get the idea.
I would say that the panel seams looked pretty tight. I have now replaced all the window caulking and rivets. I have also caulked the inside of every seam in the camper, with Trempro. In retrospect, Gluvit would have been a good choice as well. I'd use that if I were to do it again because it's painted on and thus might provide a better, more thorough seal.
This very issue - the leak factor - is why I have gone all aluminum. And why I'm considering putting little drains in the bottom of the cabover and the floor. Whatever gets in can get out. I'm not convinced that with yards of seams and a thousand holes, water intrusion can ever be completely prevented. Perhaps when they were brand new and unstretched and untorqued, but after many miles and many lifetimes of use...?
We just do the best we can with caulking and sealants and chase leaks and enjoy them for their unique appearance and aerodynamic qualities. Garry posted a pic a couple of years ago of his rig parked next to a Lance in a parking lot in AK. It said it all for me. Avions and Cayos are so sleek and well-proportioned. They just look like they want to go down the road. Nothing boxy or top-heavy.

Rastaman, if any of us had known what to look for and look out for before we bought our rig...well, it might have been a very different bargaining experience.

Onward!
Dick

[rastaman33609]

69cayo......nice work, I am taking a long hard look at that to make sure I understand. Humm very interesting, that is close to the original design just better.

Dennis check your PM..

[69cayo]

Rastaman, This is how I redid my bunk area..........
I built a frame out of 1x4 fir..



The frame allows me to insulate and it is lighter than 2 shts. of 3/4 ply laminated together.

Lap joints were used for the frame...





Everything was dry fitted and checked before gluing & fasteners.
The frame was glued up as 2 separate pieces with 3/8 ply on the top only.



Each half was then slid into place and glued & clamped.





I let the glue cure overnight (elmers or titebond waterproof glue) then slid the lower 3/8 shts. into place and braced the bottom so I could crawl up top.



At this point it was just the matter of installing the insulation and the center top sht. of 3/8 and a couple of coats of West Systems epoxy.

All the plywood was glued down with West Systems and all edges were treated before installing with the same.

You can duplicate this using just plywood if you like.
Install the bottom pieces first with the face grain running left to right, then the left and right radius pieces up top with face grain north and south, then finally the center piece again with the face grain north and south.

Cut all the pieces 1st. and lay them together and double check everything before treating them.

I hope this helps.
Where are you ? Tampa ?

Dennis

[garryk6]

69cayo wrote:
What I found was windows and window frames and loose rivets that leak.
I located the leaks while being in the camper (after it was stripped to the shell) during one of our monsoons down here.
I would not say you should ignore the seams because traveling down the road at 60 mph in a downpour might show different results.


Dennis

My C10 was completely resealed by the previous owner, and he did a pretty decent job. I have two spots that I am still chasing, and it seams that they only leak while driving down the freeway in heavy rains, which Alaska can have too like your monsoons. I am still chasing one through or around the front window, and I have one somewhere around the passengers lower front corner by the curve between the dinette and the upper bunk. I know that they are there and I keep trying different tactics, but no luck yet...

Garry

[69cayo]

What I found was windows and window frames and loose rivets that leak.
I located the leaks while being in the camper (after it was stripped to the shell) during one of our monsoons down here.
I would not say you should ignore the seams because traveling down the road at 60 mph in a downpour might show different results.


Dennis

[Michael_111]

My seams were leaking all over the place
Every time it rains i am out there chasing leaks. Hence the reason for my drastic measures for using an outside epoxy to seal the seams and next spring i paint over it

Nothing that i have tried seemed to work, tried vulcem, acryl r, and another brand of penetrating epoxy
Finally went to Gluevit and i am down to 2 leaks from about 30 ish

Just my experience

M

[ticki2]

This question is directed to D1trout and 69cayo but is open to anyone . Both of you have had the interior completely striped of insulation . Did you find any evidence of leaks at any of the panel seams ? This subject has come up several times about seams leaking . When I did my front end repair I found no signs of leaks at any of the panel seams , only at the penetrations , windows ,vents etc.. The panels had some kind of double sided foam tape as the seal . I used Tempro ( vulcum )caulk for the repair , which was used for Airstreams for 50 years . In the process of replacing the window plastic panes on the drivers side I used Tempro for the install . This seemed to fix a chronic leak that the original owner had complained about from paper work that I still have . When I removed the windows I did not lke the caulking job that saw . So my conclusion is that the panel joints are usually not the problem , the penetrations are where the leaks stem from . What say you ?

[rastaman33609]

D1trout....Thank you so much for your detail advise. If I use the Smith's would there still be a need to use marine ply?

I was also wondering for those who have done this before if the sheets of ply should be glued together before installing them, or as they are installed one at a time. Forgive me if these questions seem naive, however this part of the project I find somewhat daunting, I have not worked with wood in such a detailed fashion much before. I basically know what needs to be done, base on others experience. Just that some of the actual details as to how it was actually done was not clear to a dummy like me.

So tell me if this sounds like a plan:

1. measure and cut plywood to size.
2. Use as many layers and sizes of ply to firmly fit inside aluminum
frame channel.
3. Seal and treat both sides and edges of each board with Smiths.
4. Install each sheet or previously glued together sheets,
5. Screw from outside using existing holes using caulk on screws
6, screw boards together from inside.

The above is for the overhead bunk area. I have not taken a close enough look at the wings, but it would appear from all I have read that I can expect to have to rebuild both wings also.

I am actually looking forward to the challenge ahead, however the budget does not allow for me to go overboard with 'perfection' I need to get the most 'bang for the buck' If you know what I mean?

I have only 86 pages left to study in this thread, and have learn't a lot,that I wish I had known before buying my C10, I would still have bought it, but would have had more negotiating power 🙂

Thanks once again..believe me I need all the help I can get 🙂

David

[D1trout]

Rastaman, I'll try to give you some detailed answers about repairs. How you chose to proceed will depend upon how obsessed you become with rebuilding and waterproofing and what your budget is... It is possible to go way over the top on this sort of project. I'm an excellent example of that phenomenon!

Regarding epoxy, West System is the standard and available from West Marine(the two companies are unrelated) and other vendors. It is a powerful adhesive and can also be used to coat and waterproof wood. It's pretty thick but can easily be rolled on with a foam roller. For coating wood, it helps to warm the wood first - put it out in the sun or in a warm room. That will give you a little more viscosity. Don't roll the epoxy on in the direct sunlight if you can avoid it. And use the slow hardener, not the fast. Longer working time is better.
If you just wish to waterproof the plywood first, consider using a CPES - a clear penetrating epoxy sealant. Smith's is the standard here. It's thin and penetrates the wood very well, better than West epoxy, yet still hardens and protects when it sets up. It can be used to stabilize and strengthen damaged wood. A couple of coats will be all you need. That's the way I'd go. Use Smith's, then if you penetrate the outer aluminum skin or just the layers of ply with screws or rivets, caulk each hole with Trempro, the standard polyurethane caulk of Avion/Airstream restorations or a Sika product. Some of these are just caulks and some combine caulking with powerful adhesives. You could use Sikaflex to bond the two plys together without mechanical fasteners. I'd be more concerned with any penetration through the outer aluminum skin than with interior screws in ply. Try to minimize those. Use existing holes, with lots of caulk.
Aluminum roofing screws might be just the thing. No electrolysis issues. The little rubber washers could be a worthwhile feature. Drill, caulk, screw in the screw and then clean up the excess caulk before it sets up. Acetone works well.
Re fiberglass, the only place it is used in the factory rig is in the 'bustle', that molding that attaches at the bottom and rear of the camper and contains the holding tank. There's no place on the outside where I'd use glass. Inside, I think you could just as well use epoxy-sealed plywood. Easier to work with than glass.
You have read about Vintage Trailer Supply by now. A great source for almost everything you need to proceed. And I have found Chuck Cayo at Cayo RV Repair in Michigan to be helpful with advise on issues I've been unable to resolve in any other way. He also has a varied and surprising collection of parts, moldings, etc for old Avions and Cayos. 269-463-5068.

Above all, don't get discouraged. It can be daunting to get these rigs repaired and operating in an efficient fashion. You need courage and persistence. The road to Muley Point is long and winding and rugged in some places, but I've been told that the view when you get there is spectacular.

Onward!
Dick

[D1trout]

My family wants to show how happy they are now that they can move back and forth between Argo and the big bad truck...

[cajunavion]

Howdy!
Not fiberglass. West Systems Epoxy. Check the beginning posts.
I believe it was Dennis that showed the way. Cover your plywood
with 2 coats it will glue the pieces together forever. Marine ply. you do not want
voids found in reg ply. DONT USE TREATED. If you can find aluminum
screws locally, go for it.

[rastaman33609]

cajunavion wrote:
Howdy!
Rastaman,, I am crazy about these campers, but I know y'all
all know the ugly truth, they all LEAK. Even if you could stop those pesky seam leaks, damp air will infiltrate and condensation will occur. Soo, you best make sure your stucture can take it. I like following boaters strategy. Encapsulate your wood in epoxy and avoid water trapping voids. The original wood insulation wood does not do either. Hence, read all the posts about rotten floors.
Take note of all the work D1 has gone to not to suffer this.
D1 has your camper become a class c rv? Beautiful work by the way!

I was at Home Depot today looking at stuff to work with..they dont have much ....What epoxy and sealers do you guys recommend?

I dont see much about anyone using fiberglass...anyone using it?
And what about using aluminum roofing screws with the rubber washers
My overhead bunk had screws from the outside going into the 1X's I was thinking of using roof screws to replace these.

[D1trout]

Cajunavion, you are right about the leaks. All those seams and rivet holes and bumpy roads - there are just too many places for water to get in. I don't think we can keep the water out. That's what got me going down the all-aluminum road. I'm considering putting some little drain holes in the bottom of the cabover and in the floor. Airstream had/has drains in the bottoms of some of their trailers.
No structural wood in Argo, just decorative trim. And even that wood will be coated with CPES before varnishing.
Yep, I've moved into the Class C category. Annie and the dogs are very happy!
Dick