How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?

[SkiBumAt50]

Ok, so lots of questions.

First off, let me introduce myself. I've got 3 kids who will all be off to college in the next 5 years or so. My wife and I have always loved traveling and we are avid skiers (Me moreso than her). We live in Upstate NY and have 2 dogs and a Cat.

So for when the kids go off to college for my next adventure I've settled on getting a truck camper. I've ruled out other vehicles for a few reasons. First, I have some towing needs, that some of the 4x4 vans can't accommodate. My two big goals for the TC are using it to drive to different ski resorts here in the North East, and driving it to fishing spots to fly fish. I will get a 4x4 but have no intentions of wheeling it hard; just rough roads and bad weather.

I think I've settled on a Lance 1172 or possibly a 975. I'll mate it to a Ford F550, (possibly super single conversion.) although I haven't decided on the upfitter yet.

I have a large shop that I can park it in, that's heated even in the winter. I built it with an RV in mind so large overhead door, electric drop, pull through, etc.

So first question, those of you that use your water in the winter I assume you are driving with the heat on? I'm pretty handy and would even consider adding a diesel heater to supplement in the winter. This really works if my wife can hop in and go, take showers, use the toilet etc. She doesn't Ski as much as me and is more than happy to go back and kick back with a book while I chase the last lift.

Those of you with the larger Lances what's your experience been? My typical winters here in NY are often down in the single digits (-17C for my Canadian friends) and while I've seen the Lances in person a few times it seems like maybe they'd need a bit more customizing to boost the low end? Do people find the bed warm enough in the really cold? I know some people use the bed systems to get an air gap, etc.

We've been to a few RV shows and the Lance seems to fit our needs the best. I like the room versus Bigfoot, and they seem to be a little more modern than Northern Lite, especially now with the Truma heating and AC. Does anyone use the dehumidifier in the winter? Hows that work?

I also work remotely and might occasionally take it for customer visits if I can reasonably get away with it, so I'll likely equip it with decent internet.

Anyone have any experiences similar to this they care to share? Am I asking too much of it?

[Grit_dog]

@LGmoon40, good call on the anti gel if you’re filling up with diesel on the coast, it may not be winter fuel suitable for those temperatures. However once you get anywhere near the mountains, a couple hours from home, the fuel will be winter diesel, so you could forego the fuel treatment by buying fuel in the right place on your way up.

[LGMoon40]

I always fill up once I hit the Sierra, but after having my fuel gel up twice in the last 3 years I’ll stick with adding anti-gel in Addition to my block heater.

[LGMoon40]

My battery is inside the camper where it stays warm enough not to be bothered by the outdoor temps. I relocated it into an interior cabinet where it never approaches the 32 degree mark, which is the cutoff point to allow further charging for a lithium battery I think? I just added another panel this summer, so now have 400W on the roof and 206 Amp Hours of storage. I can run for days with this setup. I'll run out of propane and water before electricity.

[Supercharged111]

We've had our 1131 out in the teens for a few days a couple times with no issues. At some point you just have to nerd out and take readings from multiple places to see if anything is getting too cold that shouldn't. Don't forget the batteries won't hold as much of a charge and the solar isn't going to do a whole lot during the winter months.

[LGMoon40]

I own a 2008 Lance 1055 and I've camped in the Sierra several times when the overnight temps hit -15F. I love my ski weekends in our camper and it just so happens that there is a really nice camping spot close to my favorite Tahoe ski area that is located in a valley and gets very cold. The camper handles it better than my diesel truck, so I've had to take precautions to make sure the fuel doesn't gel (additive and a block heater I run for a few hours from my camper battery in the morning before starting.) Like Buzzcut I have reflectix covering most windows and under my mattress, and I keep the camper warm to make sure tanks and water lines don't freeze. My 1055 doesn't have storm windows but does have a heated basement/tanks, and I keep my water heater on overnight too. I travel with a fresh tank (36 gallons between the tank and water heater capacity) and some rv anti-freeze in the grey and black water tanks. My wife and I use all the plumbing, including the shower, and enjoy a warm, comfy camper overnight and breakfast and lunch in the parking lot at the base of our mountain- can't beat that! I added a 206ah lithium battery, lithium converter/charger and 300watts of solar, and my lance charges from the alternator when rolling too, so we're pretty well set up to boondock in the snow. I also keep a small but efficient dehumidifier plugged in whenever we aren't rolling to help with the moisture. Beyond that I keep some dry rags handy to wipe down ceiling seams where moisture collects overnight when it is really cold, caused by condensation build-up over the colder aluminum framing. It isn't much, but worth keeping after.

As to where to put the wet stuff, I just hang coats and ski pants on hooks installed on the wall near my rear exit door and we keep the skis and boards outside overnight and in the empty shower stall if we are in a crowded campground. When we are traveling I just lay them on the floor of the camper in their travel bags. We bring our Lab too- he loves the snow!!

[RickW]

SkiBumAt50 wrote:

RickW wrote:

SkiBumAt50 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.

If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.

Cheers!

I understand humidity. That's specifically why I was asking about the dehumidify feature on the new Truma AC that Lance is using. I was wondering if it was like my Canadian friends who use their AC in the winter (Run AC in the winter). When I asked my local dealer guy he had no idea. But if it functions that way? That's a game changer.

Worst case I think a small air-to-air heat exchanger could be fabbed to do air exchange and dry out the camper. Making it look good and fit somewhere is the only problem.

See this post for info on an air to air heat exchanger I made to fit in the sliding window under the bed. Sorry, photos were deleted by photo host. I have used it off and on for the past 10 years.

Heat exchanger for TC

Yeah I'd love to see pics, but I assume it's like a house cross flow air to air?

The design I have in mind would be more like a periscope with counter flow. My youngest has a 3D printer, so that and some square aluminum tube I could prototype some things pretty fast. A few computer fans, and an arduino set to keep delta below say 5 degrees and I think it could be pretty effective. Rough turn over on a computer fan might be 20-30 cfm per minute. Back of the napkin says an 1172 is about 640 cuft in volume. That puts me at 32 minutes per turn over (theoretical). If I could turn the unit over 3 times in a night I'd be happy. So it could run much slower of course.

Yes, mine is a plate exchanger with cross flow in a plastic box like an ammo case that fits in the sliding window. I did mock up a counterflow shell and tube exchanger, but fans with higher static pressure (and higher wattage) than computer fans were required for my design. (Maybe why cross flow exchangers are used in cold climate homes?)

At low flow, I estimate my cross flow exchanger is a quiet 3-5 cfm, enough to sleep comfortably in my TC without open vents and condensation. I also confirmed humidity removal by initially boiling water in the TC and measuring humidity for a few hours after. Sorry, I don't recall the data.

Please share your design and results when finished.

[SkiBumAt50]

StirCrazy wrote:

jimh406 wrote:
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.

great, that's how you use it but it's not what the OP is looking to do.

personally, when I upgrade, I want tanks in the basement with the furnace heating the basement so I can use the tanks. Right now, I have been looking at the diesel heater option, only so I can extend my time out in early spring or late fall, when the night time temps are getting down to well below freezing. With my two 20lb tanks I can safely last 5 or 6 days. With an espar type heater that has twice the BTU output than my furnace I could extend that to over 10 days by carrying one 5-gal container of diesel, or indefinitely by plumbing it into my trucks diesel system. I don't camp with either of my units winterized, if I want to go camping I want to have full use of everything.

Yeah this is my intention. I like to cook. I like to travel. I've spent years camping in tents and lean-too's and now? I'm over that phase of my life. I'm looking forward to comfort now.

My local ski hill has overnight parking. I could easily park at the lot that you need a season pass to get on, hit first lift with my wife. Come back have brunch. Ski until lunch, maybe have an après-ski mid day and then my wife could go relax and read while I ski unitl they close the lift.

Alternatively I like to fish. Here in NY we have lots of state access where you can start fishing 30 minutes before sun up. Its easy enough to find a spot be ready and be at the spot quickly enough. You probably can't get away with staying at the spot (regs say for fishing only). But there's always a place to boondock close by.

You hit the nail on the head. I want to add a diesel heater as redundancy. Belts and suspenders so to speak.

[LGMoon40]

Problem with the diesel heater is that it won’t heat your tanks unless you make some mod to blow warm air into the basement where the tanks are located.

[SkiBumAt50]

RickW wrote:

SkiBumAt50 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.

If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.

Cheers!

I understand humidity. That's specifically why I was asking about the dehumidify feature on the new Truma AC that Lance is using. I was wondering if it was like my Canadian friends who use their AC in the winter (Run AC in the winter). When I asked my local dealer guy he had no idea. But if it functions that way? That's a game changer.

Worst case I think a small air-to-air heat exchanger could be fabbed to do air exchange and dry out the camper. Making it look good and fit somewhere is the only problem.

See this post for info on an air to air heat exchanger I made to fit in the sliding window under the bed. Sorry, photos were deleted by photo host. I have used it off and on for the past 10 years.

Heat exchanger for TC

Yeah I'd love to see pics, but I assume it's like a house cross flow air to air?

The design I have in mind would be more like a periscope with counter flow. My youngest has a 3D printer, so that and some square aluminum tube I could prototype some things pretty fast. A few computer fans, and an arduino set to keep delta below say 5 degrees and I think it could be pretty effective. Rough turn over on a computer fan might be 20-30 cfm per minute. Back of the napkin says an 1172 is about 640 cuft in volume. That puts me at 32 minutes per turn over (theoretical). If I could turn the unit over 3 times in a night I'd be happy. So it could run much slower of course.

[jimh406]

StirCrazy wrote:

jimh406 wrote:
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.

great, that's how you use it but it's not what the OP is looking to do.

personally, when I upgrade, I want tanks in the basement with the furnace heating the basement so I can use the tanks. Right now, I have been looking at the diesel heater option, only so I can extend my time out in early spring or late fall, when the night time temps are getting down to well below freezing. With my two 20lb tanks I can safely last 5 or 6 days. With an espar type heater that has twice the BTU output than my furnace I could extend that to over 10 days by carrying one 5-gal container of diesel, or indefinitely by plumbing it into my trucks diesel system. I don't camp with either of my units winterized, if I want to go camping I want to have full use of everything.

Great, that's how you might use yours in the future if you upgrade, but who knows what the OP will actually do. 😄

[StirCrazy]

jimh406 wrote:
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.

great, that's how you use it but it's not what the OP is looking to do.

personally, when I upgrade, I want tanks in the basement with the furnace heating the basement so I can use the tanks. Right now, I have been looking at the diesel heater option, only so I can extend my time out in early spring or late fall, when the night time temps are getting down to well below freezing. With my two 20lb tanks I can safely last 5 or 6 days. With an espar type heater that has twice the BTU output than my furnace I could extend that to over 10 days by carrying one 5-gal container of diesel, or indefinitely by plumbing it into my trucks diesel system. I don't camp with either of my units winterized, if I want to go camping I want to have full use of everything.

[jimh406]

We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.

[StirCrazy]

JimK-NY wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:



Power Consumption 6 - 31W
Rated Voltage 12V"

So, it is quite feasible that I could cut my power usage in half with an espar unit...

So let us assume a 20W power consumption. That would be 1.7 amps @ 12 volts. My small truck camper furnace pulls 7 amps. That is a very substantial difference. The difference in fuel consumption is also massive.

Ya, I have a old furnace, only pulls 3.5amps when running so I wouldn't save as much as others, but would still save.

[Buzzcut1]

the better you insulate your camper the fewer times your furnace cycles and the less power you draw. I also switch to flannel sheets and trick down comforters in the winter. We like the camper cool when we sleep at night so the thermostat is usually set for 55F Daytime 65F. Neither of us likes being in a hot room.