LT vs ST's - Canadian Tires cries "Illegal!".

[PrivatePilot]

I replaced all 4 tires on my 35' horse trailer in the last 2 weeks - Canadian Tire had some excellent LT tires that were on 50% off "end of line liquidation" discount and the price was too hard to resist even though the horse show season is about done and I wasn't planning to replace the tires until spring.

The first 2 I had replaced at a Canadian Tire reasonably local to me. They initially balked at my choice of LT tires with the usual song and dance about how "You can only use ST tires!". Eventually after some frank discussion with the people there they saw my side of the story - you can't use ST tires on a vehicle, but you CAN legally use LT tires on a trailer. I told them that some RV manufacturers are even shipping their trailers with LT's now for example. Eventually, no problem, they installed them, all happy.

Fast forward to yesterday, I drop off some horses and head to another Canadian Tires store local to me at that moment to get the last 2 tires replaced - the stock on these clearance tires was getting low and if I wanted to get in at the 50% off price I had to get them where I could find them, and the store I was near had 2.

So I get there and the service manager advises me that they will NOT install LT tires on a trailer. I politely start my side of the story again with regards to the legality at which point he exclaims "Yeah, we've dealt with the MTO on all this before and it's not legal so we're not doing it". Eventually we come to a middle ground - I remove the tires myself in the parking lot, roll them in, and they'll "see no evil" and mount the new rubber for me. So, I always carry a hydraulic jack and breaker bar with me when hauling horses, so I do exactly that. Needless to say it's a PITA and takes a lot of extra time.

Eventually, I leave with my 2 new tires (now having a nice matched set of 4 brand new LT's) but I look at the receipt as I'm driving off and I see that they notated the bill more or less "instructed that desired use is not legal, customer self installed, warranty void, blah blah blah".

Now that burned my ass, and I want to take it up with Canadian Tire head office as I'm not the only one I know who was pigeonholed into being forced into buying garbage ST's - another friend was also forced to buy ST's when he needed to replace a spare tire, even though there were far better LT alternatives for his smaller trailer. He didn't argue it and ended up with Carlisle ST's, and we all know how that'll end up eventually.

I need a link or some sort of proof in CMVSS laws that using LT tires on a trailer is NOT illegal as so many Canadian Tire stores seem to want to believe. I can find plenty of reference to ST's being "for trailer service only", which is all fine and dandy and is the very point which thereby declares them illegal for vehicle usage, but nothing that specifically indicates LT's are legal for trailers...although arguably the absence of "LT's are illegal for trailer service" should suffice. Heck, even P rated tires are OK with a 9% derate so long as they can legally carry the weight.

At the very least I'd like to get my warranty reinstated, if nothing else.

[PrivatePilot]

RinconVTR wrote:
Stating LT tires are approved by manufactures is a BIG stretch. Goodyear does so in a very round about manner, almost indirectly. No one else does. If you want to enlighten us with documentation stating otherwise, direct from the tire manufacture, I will stand corrected.

In addition to the links/details posted earlier in this thread...

Kuhmo Tire:

http://www.kumhotire.ca/en/tire/category/truck-suv/7EAB87AD-62DC-4D82-897E-E59335DE416C

Goodyear: (Look at the G614 RST LT Tire)

http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire-selector.aspx

LT235/85R16 "Designed specifically to handle the demand of trailer"

I can keep going if you'd like.

RinconVTR wrote:
HOWEVER. There are more tire manufactures clearly stating without debate...NOT to use LT tires on trailers compared to the select one or two stating anything resembling an approval.

Please post proof, because in looking into the situation in extreme detail I've discovered that they either state LT's ARE fine for trailer use...or they say nothing at all.

[RinconVTR]

PrivatePilot wrote:


- LT's are approved by manufacturers for trailer usage.

There is no LEGAL issue here.

Well hold on there bud. While I agree with most of what's been said in this thread, you've gone too far.

Stating LT tires are approved by manufactures is a BIG stretch. Goodyear does so in a very round about manner, almost indirectly. No one else does. If you want to enlighten us with documentation stating otherwise, direct from the tire manufacture, I will stand corrected.

I would agree that this is not a letter of the law, legal vs illegal issue. It is not.

HOWEVER. There are more tire manufactures clearly stating without debate...NOT to use LT tires on trailers compared to the select one or two stating anything resembling an approval.

Look, I don't care what people use. LT tires will work on trailers, no doubt about it. But I personally will use the tool/product designed for the purpose and intent it was designed for.

[shum02]

PrivatePilot wrote:
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FWIW I also discovered last week that Canadian Tire franchises charge different amounts for tire balancing - most I called were around $17 per tire, the store in Bowmanville Ontario told me that "it depends on how much weight is needed, it starts at ~$17 but can go up if your tire needs a lot of weight to balance". Huh?

Seriously?! 1st I've heard of that. Really......how much does a few chunks of tire weights cost that they would charge for it?????

Will have to look at my receipt but I'm pretty sure I paid less than that per tire for mounting and balancing at the Burlington store. Like I said, they do a decent job here doing mounting and balancing.

[PrivatePilot]

Gary, read the entire thread. If Canadian Tire has a *policy* against installing LT's in place of ST's that's one thing, but it's a very different thing to make up lies and spread misinformation that it's illegal.

- It is not illegal.

- Many RV manufacturers are now shipping their RV's out of the factory with LT's as factory equipment and placarded as such.

- LT's are approved by manufacturers for trailer usage.

- There is NO law in the USA nor Canada that disallows LT use on trailers.

All of this was discussed at length earlier in this thread...with links and such to backup these facts.

The only legal requirement is that the tires are capable of carrying the weight for the application they are being used for, AKA they must be rated to carry the weight the axle they're to be attached to is rated for. In my case the tires are each rated for just under 2700 pounds each and are mounted on an axle rated to carry less than that, therefore they are well within their legal required ratings.

There is no LEGAL issue here. Again, if they have a POLICY against it that's one thing, but be clear about it - one Canadian Tire location had no problem not only selling me the tires, but mounting them on my rims and even helping me put them back on the trailer in the parking lot. The other Canadian Tire in question made my life unnecessarily miserable about the whole situation and then proceeded to cancel my warranty on the tires based on misinformation and lies.

[garyhaupt]

I have some sympathy here for a company that has it's guideline and refuses to ignore them, to satisfy a customer. In this case, for tires and wheels that do not not appear to meet the requirements of a particular vehicle or trailer. History has shown, over and over again, that despite any signed bit of paper releasing anyone from responsibility, in the event of a catastrophic event, lawyers will successfully petition the courts and that court will assign some % of culpability to the those that had allowed the consumer to over-ride the companies stated position.


Gary Haupt

[PrivatePilot]

I have yet to get my letter off to Canadian Tire (ugh, better late than never?) but I'm going to endeavour to do so this weekend. Although it may be too late to fight with them with regards to reinstating my warranty on the LT's I think I'd still like clarification on their policies as well as perhaps bring it to their attention that it's being discussed online at places like RV.net. I'd also like to have them talk to their shops about the legality of LT's on trailers...mainly, that it's 100% LEGAL contrary to their insistence at some franchises.

FWIW I also discovered last week that Canadian Tire franchises charge different amounts for tire balancing - most I called were around $17 per tire, the store in Bowmanville Ontario told me that "it depends on how much weight is needed, it starts at ~$17 but can go up if your tire needs a lot of weight to balance". Huh?

Needless to say, not impressed again. I recently bought 4 new car tires there..and the same as it was with my horse trailer that started this thread they were discontinued clearance (And $71 each for 17" tires was irresistible), but I'll be getting them installed elsewhere.

[shum02]

Steakman wrote:

As for CDn tire..meh, in a pinch I will use em...but only if its an Emerg. Besides they cant handle 17" rims/tires.

I had them mount 18" LT Coopers on the F350 just recently. Could not do a front end alignment though, didn't have a lift strong enough to hold her :E

Have argued with CTC about pressure in the LT's as well. They will only inflate to the pressure marked on the door placard. Have to take them home and air them up myself.

Usually I will only have them mount and balance tires, it's one thing they can seem to do without complaint.

[Steakman]

Hey Pilot..! Nice to see another DP guy here. Heres hoping you did in fact write that letter...I would love to hear their reply.

I have actually had issues with both Costco and Cdn Tire. My 06 Dmax came with 16" rims. I now have 17" rims...was told at Costco that they could not install 17" tires on my new 17" rims...i Near fell over. So, that was the last time they saw my tire business.

I do not understand why they would take that position..why not instead make the consumer sign a waiver form and relieve themselves of any liability..?? I am so sick and tired of over regualtion and companies playing Policeman...I am fully capable of making my own decisions and taking responsibility for my actions.

As for CDn tire..meh, in a pinch I will use em...but only if its an Emerg. Besides they cant handle 17" rims/tires.

I am likely getting due for tires on the fifth..its an '11 and the tires are still the same OEM ST's...will have to take a good look later this spring and see what condition they are in...probably swap em out with LT LRE's

Stk

[GREGORYJ]

I would think the tire dealer should install the tire that is specified on the tire and pressure sticker on the trailer sticker.
I had put 15" aluminum wheels on a Mazda I once owned that originally had 14" steel wheels.
Even though 15" aluminum wheels were an option on the sport model , they where not
my base model. I stopped at a Walmart in the US for new Goodyears and they would
not install replacements because the cars tire sticker showed only the original
14" tire size.(Company policy) They did not want to be libel if something happened afterwards. They suggested a couple of other tire
places to go to that didn't have the same policy , and I did and got the
tires I wanted.

[gitane59]

PrivatePilot wrote:
Honestly, I haven't sent the letter yet. Life keeps getting in the way.

That said I did have contact with the Canadian Tire customer relations department for another matter recently (a recalled Canadian Tire item I owned) so I know exactly how to register my complaint now...I just have to actually sit down, type it up, and submit it.

Oh don't I understand.:B

When you find that lost roundtoit let us know please. I'm still looking for mine.:R

[Old-Biscuit]

Almost 2 months 7 pages and you haven't written...........:S

[PrivatePilot]

Honestly, I haven't sent the letter yet. Life keeps getting in the way.

That said I did have contact with the Canadian Tire customer relations department for another matter recently (a recalled Canadian Tire item I owned) so I know exactly how to register my complaint now...I just have to actually sit down, type it up, and submit it.

[gitane59]

PrivatePilot wrote:
THANK YOU! That's just the ammunition I needed. I plan on writing the letter today and will post a copy here. Heck, perhaps we could turn this into a letter writing campaign to Canadian Tire (and Costco by the sounds of it as well?) to get the issue cleared up once and for all on this side of the border.

Nudge, Nudge! 😉

Just wondering whether you got any satisfaction from your inquiry to CTC for throwing the legal flag around for mounting LT tires on trailers

[gitane59]

sue.t wrote:
If you read the laws on the links I posted early in the thread, you will see the laws/regulations do indeed govern tire usage on vehicles.

There is a federal Act, plus each province would have its own act/regulations that must adhere to the federal Act.

Can't blame them for protecting themselves from lawsuits.

What law? There is no verbiage federally or provincially that specifically states that putting a LT tire on a trailer is illegal.
Provide a specific quote and link to support your position. Generic links are only fear mongering.

[tsetsaf]

Similar thing happened to me here in the US. The shop sold me the new rims and LT tires even provided the road hazard warranty but added a note at the bottom of the receipt stating the wheels and tires did not match the oem specs. So what.