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Moab or Durango/RMNP?

flintsters
Explorer
Explorer
Next summer my family (myself, wife and 3 daughters ages 12, 10, 5) will be going cross country. We are leaving from Vermont with our first major stop being at Estes Park. I know it'll be crazy busy, but I suspect that our kids will be looking for a little bit of energy after several days of sitting and cooped up. We had originally planned to go to Moab to see Arches, Canyonland, etc for a few nights before heading down to Grand Canyon. I keep hearing about how brutally hot it will be then (end of June) and we'll primarily be limited to early morning and late afternoon activity. Is it still worth it to do Moab area or are we setting ourselves up?
Instead we could go elsewhere in Rocky Mountains on way to Grand Canyon. I was considering a stop at Great Sand Dunes and then Durango as a possible substitution but I am certainly open to suggestions. From what I can tell the travel time and distance is essentially the same. If it helps, our planned stops over 7-8 weeks include:

Estes Park
Moab
Grand Canyon
Zion
Bryce
Grand Teton
Yellowstone
Cody
Devils Tower
Custer State Park
Indiana Dunes

I had originally planned to go to Glacier after Yellowstone but the combination of wildfires and travel time made me reconsider that idea. Thoughts???
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34 REPLIES 34

IA_boy
Explorer
Explorer
Utah Hwy 12 is awesome and don't pass up the hike to Lower Calf Creek Falls.

Lauren
Explorer
Explorer
Of course I would disagree with NR over SR of the GC. You only see about 10% of the GC at the NR. Same reason I could put up with the crowds at Estes Park. There is very little to do or see of RMNP from the west side. I lived in EP for 8 years, left in 2003. We would never go there again now! Too many other good places.
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NHIrish
Explorer
Explorer
agesilaus wrote:
1) I think most people dislike the campgrounds in Estes Park, I suggest looking on the west side of RMNP for a CG
2) I would go south from RMNP and stop at Great Sand Dunes, it will be a big hit with your girls, a day there is plenty. Camping there isn't a bad idea tho since you can see the dunes early and without the thousands of foot prints that will appear later.
3) I'd go west from there and stop at Mesa Verde, make reservations online for a couple of tours. They will be filled up if you wait until you get there. Durango is a possibility if you want to take the train ride. Might make reservations for that too, online.
4) Turn south at Cortez and go to the North Rim of the GCNM which has much smaller crowds and the view is just as good in my view those some will argue about that. It's nice and cool too. If you stay in the park make reservations early. Otherwise you'll camp in Jacob Lake at a FHU CG. But that adds a hour long drive into the park.
5) Head north stops at Pipe Springs NM (an hour or two) and Coral Pink Sands SP might be considered.
6) Do Bryce (nice and cool) and Zion (hotter than hades) next. You'll see all the red rock you want which will make up for skipping Arches.
7) To break up the long drive north you might add Capitol Reef (more red rock) and Dinosaur NM (big hit with the girls).

Make sure to make reservations for Yellowstone as early as you can, you want to stay at Fishing Bridge CG and schedule a week there if it fits in you schedule. You can't see the place in that period but you see a lot of it.

In the Badlands you'll want to look at Rushmore ( an hour or two) and stop at Badlands (daytrip). Stay at Custer (reservations) and a stop at Wall Drugs outside Badlands is worth the stop. It's a tourist trap but a first rate one.

Think about a drive thru of Custer NM going back east, I found it surprisingly interesting.

There are probably 50 small parks and attractions along this path that you can use to break up the drives. Get a good map and look at nps.gov


I think this entire post is dead on. I would avoid Estes Park. It was our least favorite stop on our recent 2-month trip. Access RMNP from the other side. The only thing that I would add is that of all the mountain passes we were on, I would not hesitate to tow on any of them with a modern truck with engine braking. However, do not tow on the million dollar highway if you find yourself in that area...Ouray to Silverton. I won't even drive that section again...big drops right off the fog line, with no guard rails or shoulder. Towing it is certainly doable, and I saw it done, but it isn't for me.
Enjoy the trip. If you have the time, consider going up through Canada and back via The Michigan upper peninsula with a stop or two.
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pamvanw
Explorer
Explorer
We just did portions of your trip this fall. I notice you took Custer State Park out in your last itenerary. We're hikers and bikers, and Custer was one of our favorite parts of the trip. Its beautiful and so much less crowded than the national parks. Harney Peak trail is awesome. We camped at Stockade North - it was great.
Badlands can be done in a day. We spent one night there and did all the short hikes, as well as the ladders trail.
Staying in 2 different areas of Yellowstone is a good plan. Up by Gardner is a good location for touring the north. Fishing Bridge is a good location for seeing Old Faithful area, and the falls area. Fishing Bridge Campground is awful, but hopefully you are just using it to sleep. We stayed a week and thought it was too long. We both got tired of the crowds, and had seen enough thermal features after about 5 days.
We thought Colter Bay was great, but we lucked out with a really really nice site. The Tetons are beautiful. This was probably my favorite part of the trip.
I agree Estes Park is a tourist town. Didn't float my boat. The Rockies are amazing, but very crowded. As most places we went, once you hiked a mile in, the crowds thinned out considerably.
The hard part of advice is everyone likes something different!
Enjoy making those great family memories!
Pam
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4runnerguy
Explorer
Explorer
I'm a little late to this party since I've been in Moab for the last week. As usual, the advise I will give is heavily weighted toward making sure your kids have a great time. You can do the "adult tour" once the kids are out of the house!

Be warned, a lot of the destinations you have on your agenda will be crazy busy as you are going at the height of the tourist season. Make sure you have your reservations figured out early so you can make then as soon as they open. Fourth of July will be the toughest. Also be aware that July 24th is a state holiday in Utah and lots of Utah families plan week long vacations around that time.

Some observations on your latest iteration:

From St. Louis, plan to drive to Salida or Buena Vista (Upper Arkansas River Valley) rather than Colorado Springs. Higher up so cooler, plus much more in the mountains. Colorado Springs isn't someplace I'd take my out-of-state guests to visit. In and around Upper Arkansas River, there's great river rafting for all ability levels, ghost towns (head up to St. Elmo), hot springs, fishing, mountain biking, hiking, etc. Most years we spend a week or more in this area and never run out of things to do. Downtown Salida is really neat. Great park, great local artists galleries (what kid wouldn't like to visit the Bungled Jungle?), interesting restaurants, and places to wade or tube down the river right through town.

As noted, an overnight at Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP is worth the side trip. Very dark up there at night. Deer in the CG during the day. Totally different type of canyon than those in UT and AZ. Make sure to do a side trip down the East Portal road to see the canyon from the bottom looking up. But leave the trailer on top as the grade is very steep (though paved).

During your time in Ouray, plan on renting a jeep to see some of the back country sights not visible from the highway. Also do a day trip to Telluride. The creek through town is a popular place to tube and one can take the town bus back upstream to repeat as needed. Nice mountain biking trails here too. (We may be on the geriatric tour when we mountain bike, but we still love it!)

While in Mesa Verde, plan on time in Durango, specifically on the Durango to Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad. An all day affair. Steam powered train through some of the most amazing mountains in Colorado. Silverton is a real honest to goodness western town that still has dirt streets and wooden sidewalks (and plenty of souvenir shops to take your money!). I'm not a big fan of big tourist draws, but I've done this ride several times and will again.

Instead of Park City as an intermediate stop, maybe someplace around Vernal Utah or up by Flaming Gorge. Kids get a kick out of Dinosaur National Monument, and the "Bone Wall" is impressive even to adults. In town, the Utah Field House of Natural History has several dinosaur skeletons and lots of other fossils. Meshes well with the trip to the monument.

You might consider only one night in the Badlands and two nights in Cody if you need more time for some of the suggestions above.

Probably the most time stressed destination will be Yellowstone. Each section of the park takes at least a day and traffic can be quite slow, due to both the numbers of people and the amount of wildlife that people stop (in the middle of the road) to photograph.

TenOC wrote:
Unless you hike a number of the locations you mentioned can be seen in a 1/2 day.
Ignore this advise. I can't imagine travelling half way across the US to spend a 1/2 day at any of the NP's. The time you have allotted is great, as it allows you to really see the parks yet gives the kids a little time to just be kids. We live in this part of the world and still revisit these areas time after time and always find more to do.
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Busskipper
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Explorer
Lauren wrote:
For those who don't know - Busskipper and I go round and round on a few things - and we like to jab at each other. Trust me, it is all in fun. I respect his opinion even though it is wrong! ๐Ÿ™‚ We both love Nature just maybe a little different perspective at times. I do a LOT of photography and it is about 98% Nature.


:B - - ๐Ÿ˜‰
Busskipper
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States traveled in this Coach

Lauren
Explorer
Explorer
For those who don't know - Busskipper and I go round and round on a few things - and we like to jab at each other. Trust me, it is all in fun. I respect his opinion even though it is wrong! ๐Ÿ™‚ We both love Nature just maybe a little different perspective at times. I do a LOT of photography and it is about 98% Nature.
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Rangerman40
Explorer
Explorer
This past June we hit in this order:
RMNP (Elk Meadow Campground in Estes)
Arches (MoabKOA)
Canyonlands
Mesa Verde
Four Corners
Bears Ears
Capitol Reef (Wonderland RV Park)
Bryce Canyon
Zion (Zion River Resort)
Salt Lake City (Mountain Valley RV Resort)
Salt Flats
Antelope Island and Great Salt Lake
Amana Colonies (Amana RV Park)

Great trip and it took 3 weeks.

Busskipper
Explorer
Explorer
Lauren wrote:
I really like Busskipper but this image is way too much Photoshop! ๐Ÿ˜„

Forget the North Rim. You see but about 10% of the Grand Canyon...go to South Rim. Yup, more crowds and so much more to do and see. Do NOT skip Grand Canyon.

.............


That picture was just for you Lauren:-)

Funny how we all see things so differently.......must be why this RV'ing thing is so Great.

But IMHO see all you can - even if just driving through... Lauren has Years of experience in the Southwest, so you should follow some/much of his advice, but should still make your own determinations as to what YOU enjoy.

IMHO the North and the South Rims of the GC are totally different and should both be held in high regard - One is a lot like Disney World - Big, Bold and Beautiful with lines and crowds - the other is more like the way I view a National Park - Bold, Beautiful and Wild, a little more like nature.

As a kid my folks took us to Both (50's and 60's) - I loved and related more to the North Rim - in the 90's I drove my son to LA for a summer internship while in College and we stopped by the North Rim in early June, during a 4" snow storm, IMHO the most beautiful images of the North Rim ever (I still carry those images in my Mind's Eye as I have No Pictures, Son forgot to put film in the Camera) Later when that son Moved to Colorado he visited the Grand Canyon - South Rim - Called to tell me on the drive home that it was Enormous - and as Grand as could be - BUT - did not compare to the North Rim in June with Snow. So while I will not disagree with the recommendation to see the South Rim - if possible try to see them both, as they are both truly Spectacular.

The great thing about this forum is the Diversity of advice you will get, so continue to plan, "No Wrong Choices".

Best of Luck,

Edit; Found this as a good summary;

"SOUTH RIM VS. NORTH RIM

South Rim vs. North RimPhoto Credit: gcflight.com
Which should you visit - the South Rim or the North Rim of the Grand Canyon? It's a question more and more visitors are asking each year. The answer depends on several factors and ultimately comes down to whatever makes the most sense for your vacation. Here are some basics to help you figure out what you expect to get out of you Grand Canyon visit, and choose the Rim that's right for you.

The majority of visitors come to the South Rim each year. Compare 5 million annual South Rim visitors to 1 million yearly North Rim visitors and 200,000 annual visitors at the West Rim. There is a good reason people flock to the South Rim; it's part of Grand Canyon National Park; it's stunningly beautiful; it's more developed by way of visitors centers and services; there's more lodging nearby; you can hike, backpack and camp; it's easier to access; it's more centrally located for Arizona visitors; and it offers more activity and tour variety.

The North Rim is a very remote destination there is very limited lodging and services, and one visitors center. There is little variety among the activities and tours offered; there are few if any commercial tours to the North Rim, and once there, activities are typically limited to camping, hiking, walking, mule rides and river rafting. If you're willing to make the trek, the North Rim's beautiful rugged views and trails do offer world-class hiking, backpacking, camping and river rafting opportunities, which makes the North Rim a fantastic choice for visitors who seek a more primeval, natural, quiet and uncrowded Grand Canyon experience.

The South Rim is open year-round. The North Rim is open from mid-May through mid-October. Weather extremes and moderates occur at all three rims at different times of year.

To put it simply, popularity, availability of services, ease of proximity and weather are some of the major considerations when deciding whether the South Rim or the North Rim is right for you.
Busskipper
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Lauren
Explorer
Explorer
I really like Busskipper but this image is way too much Photoshop!

Forget the North Rim. You see but about 10% of the Grand Canyon...go to South Rim. Yup, more crowds and so much more to do and see. Do NOT skip Grand Canyon.

Spend more time at Bryce and less at Zion. More beautiful hiking there. Do not miss hiking Queens Garden.

I could go on and on about CO - we love it. We spent 8 weeks there this summer into mid Sept. Ouray and Red Mountain Pass will blow you away. We already have reservations in many places for next year.

Speaking of reservations.....many of the places you are going are in very high demand and I strongly suggest you firm you plans up and make some reservations. If plans change, cancellation fees are nothing compared to driving around trying to find a place to stay. Spend your time seeing what you went there for and not looking for a place to stay.

We have part time RV'd 19 years and been to over 190 rv parks here in the western states; feel free to email or PM me if you would like.

Get to Capitol Reef if you can; one of our favorites.

We lived in Estes 8 years and would not go back again; have not in years. Love RMNP but the zoo in Estes itself is not worth it. And pine beetle has destroyed many of the beautiful trees. Forget going to the west side - very limited in Park things and anything else. Less crowds, yes; there is a reason.


Enjoy!

Lauren
Barbara-DW 55 years
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Corky12
Explorer
Explorer
Badlands NP is a 1 day drive through on your way east. It will be beastly hot and hiking is likely to be disappointing after Utah and Colorado.

Two_Jayhawks
Explorer
Explorer
Lynnsr wrote:
rexlion wrote:
I think the Ouray, Telluride area is more spectacular than RMNP.

CO Natl Monument is worth a drive thru.



I completely agree, Estes Park has some beauty but you canโ€™t really see it past the tourist traps

Lynnsr


I would add the only value to Estes is it is literally right at the entrance to RMNP. In the fall we may go in/out of the park several times a day especially late evening to witness the rut.
Bill & Kelli
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Busskipper
Explorer
Explorer
flintsters wrote:
Okay, so this is my thinking right now. If it's going to be too exposed and hot in Moab then I'm leaning towards skipping that, especially since there will be lots of other rock viewing/hiking on the trip. I keep hearing about how crazy Estes Park is so I'll scrape that idea as well. Is a first stop at Colorado Springs worth it? The primary reason for it is Pikes Peak Cog. I was thinking from there either head deeper into CO and go to Ouray and then down to Durango/Mesa Verde or we can go to Great Sand Dunes, Buena Vista, and then Durango/Mesa Verde. I guess I'm looking for help to decide between Ouray and Buena Vista areas and whether CO Springs is a worthwhile stop. I also think I'm going to stop at Park City Utah for a couple of nights to break things up for the kids. This is what it looks like as of right now....thoughts?




The Springs are Not one of My favorite spots - (Might just be me) so I'd suggest Golden as the destination - On the Creek - water - city - things for the girls and DW before you head into the Back woods.

Then out I-70 - to RT 91 to Leadville/Buena Vista then on to Ouray - with the options of a lot - Sand Dunes - Black Canyon - Collegiates.......Easy drive Beautiful - reservation in Golden Clear Creek - Possibly do Peak to Peak to at least see RMNP.

?
Busskipper
Maryland/Colorado
Travel Supreme 42DS04
GX470-FMCA - Travel less now - But still love to be on the Road
States traveled in this Coach

flintsters
Explorer
Explorer
Okay, so this is my thinking right now. If it's going to be too exposed and hot in Moab then I'm leaning towards skipping that, especially since there will be lots of other rock viewing/hiking on the trip. I keep hearing about how crazy Estes Park is so I'll scrape that idea as well. Is a first stop at Colorado Springs worth it? The primary reason for it is Pikes Peak Cog. I was thinking from there either head deeper into CO and go to Ouray and then down to Durango/Mesa Verde or we can go to Great Sand Dunes, Buena Vista, and then Durango/Mesa Verde. I guess I'm looking for help to decide between Ouray and Buena Vista areas and whether CO Springs is a worthwhile stop. I also think I'm going to stop at Park City Utah for a couple of nights to break things up for the kids. This is what it looks like as of right now....thoughts?

6/20/2018 - Drive to St. Louis - 1142 miles
6/21/2018 - Arrive in St. Louis
6/22/2018
6/23/2018 - Drive to Colorado Springs, Colorado - 841 miles
6/24/2018 - Arrive in Colorado Springs
6/25/2018
6/26/2018
6/27/2018 - Ouray - 271 miles
6/28/2018
6/29/2018
6/30/2018
7/1/2018 - Mesa Verde - 106 miles
7/2/2018
7/3/2018 - Drive to Grand Canyon - 280 miles
7/4/2018
7/5/2018
7/6/2018 - Drive to Zion National Park - 253 miles
7/7/2018
7/8/2018
7/9/2018
7/10/2018 - Drive to Bryce Canyon National Park - 147 miles
7/11/2018
7/12/2018 - Park City -270 miles
7/13/2018
7/14/2018
7/15/2018- Drive to Grand Teton National Park/Jackson Hole - 259 miles
7/16/2018
7/17/2018
7/18/2018
7/19/2018 - Drive to Yellowstone National Park - 73 miles
7/20/2018
7/21/2018
7/22/2018
7/23/2018
7/24/2018
7/25/2018 - Drive to Cody - 77 miles
7/26/2018
7/27/2018
7/28/2018 - Drive to Devils Tower - 310 miles
7/29/2018 - Drive to Wind Caves National Park - 112 miles
7/30/2018
7/31/2018
8/1/2018
8/2/2018 - Drive to Badlands - 112 miles
8/3/2018
8/4/2018
8/5/2018 - Drive to Chicago - 890 miles
8/6/2018 -Arrive in Chicago
8/7/2018
8/8/2018
8/9/2018 - Drive Home - 877 miles
8/10/2018 - Arrive Home
2012 Jayco Jay Feather Select 29L
2015 Chevy 2500 Duramax