Six month limit for northerners?

[trailerbikecamp]

Me and DW were having a conversation the other day about a siz month time limit for Canadians spending time in US. She thinks that Canadians can only spend a max of six months south of the border, then have to come home for six months.

I think that the time outside US does not need to be that long.

This is for Canadians spending the winters down south, not for those working or attending school.

Does anyone out there have accurate info on this? How are these laws worded?

[Fizz]

her&I wrote:

Mike Boutet wrote:

MudChucker wrote:
Sort of accurate, we can stay 6 months and must return to Canada for 24 hours before may return to the USA.

You must be out of the US for at least 30 days. Anything less the US considers you still there.

This is not true. All visits are calculated on a calendar year.

If you go down for the winter and come back for three weeks at Christmas those three weeks will count on your total in the US.

This topic has been beat to death.
Go to the respective Gov web sites and do your homework.

[joebedford]

her&I wrote:

Mike Boutet wrote:

MudChucker wrote:
Sort of accurate, we can stay 6 months and must return to Canada for 24 hours before may return to the USA.

You must be out of the US for at least 30 days. Anything less the US considers you still there.

This is not true. All visits are calculated on a calendar year.

Which statement are you saying is "not true"?

The 24 hours one is untrue for sure though that may be true for some insurance.

[her_I]

Mike Boutet wrote:

MudChucker wrote:
Sort of accurate, we can stay 6 months and must return to Canada for 24 hours before may return to the USA.

You must be out of the US for at least 30 days. Anything less the US considers you still there.

This is not true. All visits are calculated on a calendar year.

[2gypsies1]

Your answer is here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-snowbirds-rules-you-need-to-know-1.2925513

[Mike_Boutet]

MudChucker wrote:
Sort of accurate, we can stay 6 months and must return to Canada for 24 hours before may return to the USA.

You must be out of the US for at least 30 days. Anything less the US considers you still there.

[FULLTIMEWANABE]

Sadly as with all things in life when it comes to "officialdom", the KISS principal doesn't apply. The more complicated they make things the more they hope that we don't know where all our taxes and fees go that we pay!

No matter whatever we've done in our lives, setting up businesses and otherwise, we always try to use the Keep It Simple Stupid policy - on the odd occasions where due to outside intervention we've not been able to apply it, that's when the wheels fell off our buses so to speak.

As someone else mentioned, and how we look at it, we try to stick with the general rules but at the end of the day, we just feel grateful once we cross over any borders without too much hassle.

[almcc]

silversand wrote:

With all the Canadian snowbirds, isn't there a way for the Canadian government (and not RVnet readers) to provide a definitive answer once and for all so we can avoid this question every year.

....we're talking government immigration here. The "laws" may seem "clear", however, they are in reality, as clear as mud when border authorities are permitted to interpret said laws "as they see appropriate for the situation".

Actually, no laws anywhere on earth are clear. There are always fuzzy areas of interpretation. Take a look at the quantity of lawyers practicing, the court system clog ups, and immigration decisions (on both sides); you'll be amazed at how unclear the laws are....in practice.

The only thing I can say is: every time you get through a border (ANY border), just thank your lucky stars you were allowed to enter. Don't assume anything. Your "lucky clock" gets reset back to zero at every crossing you make, no matter what country.

I got together for lunch with a couple of my retirement buddies recently and we were all moaning about the hassle and cost of having to go to accountants to get our tax returns done. We quickly came up with the idea of a 15% flat tax, no convoluted tax rules, interpretations or dodges to worry about.

Then about a minute later we dismissed the idea, as it would cause a recession or possible depression because of the job losses (lawyers, accountants and IRS/CRA auditors and all the bureaucracy!).

Same applies to this issue!

[silversand]

With all the Canadian snowbirds, isn't there a way for the Canadian government (and not RVnet readers) to provide a definitive answer once and for all so we can avoid this question every year.

....we're talking government immigration here. The "laws" may seem "clear", however, they are in reality, as clear as mud when border authorities are permitted to interpret said laws "as they see appropriate for the situation".

Actually, no laws anywhere on earth are clear. There are always fuzzy areas of interpretation. Take a look at the quantity of lawyers practicing, the court system clog ups, and immigration decisions (on both sides); you'll be amazed at how unclear the laws are....in practice.

The only thing I can say is: every time you get through a border (ANY border), just thank your lucky stars you were allowed to enter. Don't assume anything. Your "lucky clock" gets reset back to zero at every crossing you make, no matter what country.

....even if you exceed the absence limits your health care privileges are only suspended for three months once you return. You can purchase a bridge policy to cover that.

...that's my understanding, too.

[moisheh]

Although each Province interprets the National Health care differently in most cases the 6 months for health care is consecutive. In other words if you are a snowbird who stays in the USA for 5 months you could return to Canada and then spend 2 months in another province and still be covered. There are long distance truck drivers who spend 5 of 7 days in the USA without any problems.

Moisheh

[John___Angela]

almcc wrote:


As for the olygene's comment, Canada can't make clarifications for the US rules, and if the comment is referring to being out of Canada from a Canadian perspective, the time is dependent on the provincial health care rules (in some provinces it's 6 months, in Ontario it's 7 months and up to 2 years twice in your lifetime if you make an application) before you lose your "free" health coverage.

Some provinces and territories allow much greater leniency than that. One territory only requires you to be in the territory one day a year. However in any of them, even if you exceed the absence limits your health care privileges are only suspended for three months once you return. You can purchase a bridge policy to cover that. This is common practice for overseas workers who are often out of the country for long stays.

[almcc]

Bstark has got it right, when crossing the border (into either country) you are at the mercy of the agent who has absolute discretion and you have virtually no recourse to the decision he/she makes even if it's one done on a "bad hair day".

As for the olygene's comment, Canada can't make clarifications for the US rules, and if the comment is referring to being out of Canada from a Canadian perspective, the time is dependent on the provincial health care rules (in some provinces it's 6 months, in Ontario it's 7 months and up to 2 years twice in your lifetime if you make an application) before you lose your "free" health coverage.

Bottom line, don't give the border agent a hard time to give him/her an excuse to stomp on you!

[John___Angela]

olygene wrote:
I am not a Canadian citizen so am not subject to these rules. However, if I were, I would be aghast at all the different interpretations of the rules concerning the time away, what counts as a day, how long do I have to return before leaving, etc. etc. With all the Canadian snowbirds, isn't there a way for the Canadian government (and not RVnet readers) to provide a definitive answer once and for all so we can avoid this question every year. Surely a government bulletin board would not be that difficult for them to provide. Maybe I am asking too much but it seems that is what is needed for all of our northern neighbors.

I guess it would be helpful but then you run into a situation where you have a foreign government interpreting United States law. Might get a little iffy. If they did do something like that I would probably suggest lots of disclaimers. Remember, these are American immigration and tax laws, not Canadian.

[Community Alumni]

The rules are actually clear (or at least I thought they were). It has been my observation ever since these forums have been around that some members typically do not want to accept them or think the rules could never apply to them. I'm sure there are members who have offered their opinions as fact when they may have never even bothered to read the rules.

This is just my opinion!

... Eric

[olygene]

I am not a Canadian citizen so am not subject to these rules. However, if I were, I would be aghast at all the different interpretations of the rules concerning the time away, what counts as a day, how long do I have to return before leaving, etc. etc. With all the Canadian snowbirds, isn't there a way for the Canadian government (and not RVnet readers) to provide a definitive answer once and for all so we can avoid this question every year. Surely a government bulletin board would not be that difficult for them to provide. Maybe I am asking too much but it seems that is what is needed for all of our northern neighbors.

[bstark]

An appropriate time to perhaps throw some gas on the fire in the sense that everyone should keep in mind that CBP Customs and Border Patrol reserve the absolute right to modify, apply,or interpret these rules in whatever fashion they desire at the time of entry.

They reserve the right without stated reason to allow you entry for a specific time less than the assumed B2 visa of 180/183 days. They can do this at their discretion.

They reserve the right without explanation to modify the 180/183 starting/end point from the stated "calendar" year to any period of start/end time "they" deem appropriate at the time of entry.

All of the above is usually contingent upon but not exclusive to you encountering that rare but still possible agent experiencing a bad hair day.

Eg; during one of our secondary inspections; when asked if the "accumulated during CALENDAR year" as stated in guidelines was the ONLY interpretation, the answer was "NOPE, we reserve the right to judge whether it is our feeling you should spend more time in your own county and less time in ours."


It is wise to be mindful that experiencing a 5 to 10 year bar from entry to the U.S. is always a possibility from nothing more than a snarky response to an agent whose day has started by spilling his take out coffee into his lap on the way to work and asking you a seemingly inane or impertinent question as a result.

Both countries give their agents the right to make decisions based upon nothing more than instinct or even bias. Keeping that in mind and pushing the mistaken belief of "attained rights" as far into the background as possible is absolutely necessary if you desire the privilege of visiting the U.S. to continue.