Trip Out West

[rwbradley]

I am trying to break up the winter boredom by starting to do some early planning for our summer 2016 trip. I am looking at a East to West trip. I would be starting in Canada near Detroit. I would probably take Route66/I40 down and take I80 back. I am planning on not following these routes exactly, just using them as rough paths. I plan on allowing 4-6 weeks in the summer, due to work I cannot change the time of year or length and we really want to get out west while the kids are young as the wife and kids have never been west of the Mississippi. From years of past experience we know that 6hr driving per day for most days works for us for driving (3hr drive in the AM, lunch/gas, 3hr drive in the PM with time for dinner/relax in the Evening) on driving days. We also know that we want to spend most of the trip across the country driving with minimal stops, and spend as much time as possible hitting the big landmarks out west like Grand Canyon, Vegas, Hoover Dam, Disneyland, Hollywood, Sequoia NP, San Francisco, Napa, Yosemite NP. Because we are a family, we will likely make most stops at family friendly full hookup locations like KOA type parks where the kids can unwind after a long day in the car. We also like seeing any kinds of sights natural and built but are looking for "bucket list type ideas". So I have a series of questions for planning a trip this big and cross country:
1) would you plan every stop, plan just the big stops with a rough amount of time to get there or just go with the flow
2) how far in advanced do you need to book to get into some of the big places like Grand Canyon
3) are there alternate places to get the same WOW of Grand Canyon, Sequoia and Yosemite without the big summer crowds. Or are there other suggestions for minimizing the crowds at these big attractions ie time of day, days of the week etc
4) any suggestions on roads to take, sights to drive past, stop and take a picture at, stay an extra night to see along the way
5) The family wants to try boondocking in the desert. I would be interested in some 1 night along the way options for semi-boondocking, maybe minimal serviced, well spread out, official campgrounds that will give the family the "in the middle of the desert" with no hook-ups feel.
Thanks

[dkreuzen]

I agree with leaving out San Francisco and Los Angles areas, they have a few things to see but traffic will be bad and campgrounds are few. Las Vegas isn't as bad and there are many campgrounds, however it will be hot even at night.

As for the camping "in the middle of the desert" in July, I can tell you that nighttime temperatures at that time of the year in this area (Arizona west coast) are closer to 95 with daytime 110+.

[dfrost]

I couldn't agree more with Thom02099!!! Great suggestion for breaking your trips down.

California might be best enjoyed if you could manage flying your family out, then focusing on just that state, when your kids are older. That gives you more time there, and they would be at a more appropriate age for the larger cities, if that's really on your bucket list!

Just my humble thoughts based on travels with my own kids, as well as traveling cross country when I was growing up! To this day, Colorado, Yellowstone, Utah, that whole region are my hands down favorite places!!

[profdant139]

If I lived in Canada (and given the weakness of the Canadian dollar versus the USA dollar), and if I had kids (of almost any age), and I wanted to stay cool, and I had several weeks in the summmer, I would head for the Canadian Rockies, period. Glacier National Park in the US is very nice, and not far from Canada, but Glacier National Park in Canada is also great! And of course Banff, and Jasper, and Canmore, and do NOT miss Peter Lougheed Provincial Park (which would be a national park in any other area of the world).

The best advice I can give you, though, is don't do what I did -- spend too much time driving with kids. There is a good reason that the English language includes the cliche "you are driving me crazy!" Let the kids have lots of time doing kid things -- playing in the mud, throwing rocks into streams, gathering sticks for the campfire and then tossing them onto the fire, etc.

The southwestern US is great in September -- too hot in July and August.

[rexlion]

I haven't ridden the Durango-Silverton RR, but my parents took me on the RR to Agawa Canyon and the RR from Cochrane to Moosonee (both in Ontario). After those two, I felt like I'd had my fill of train rides. But if the OP has taken his family on one or both and if they still want more, the one at Durango would probably be a good one.

[djsamuel]

4runnerguy wrote:


They can visit swimming pools anywhere, but to stand at the edge of the Grand Canyon at sunset or to gaze waaaay up at a Sequoia is something they can't do at home.

Again, I don't know your kids ages, but my list of places that kids will be Wow'ed by:

Mesa Verde NP it takes a full day to see a couple of ruins. Book a guided trip in advance -- well worth it.
Grand Canyon NP camp at trailer village and take the shuttle around. camping in the park means you can be at the rim at sunrise and sunset -- the magical times
Zion NP - play in the river or hike up Zion Narrows, where you'll wade in knee deep+ water in a very narrow canyon. Cool temps even in the heat of summer
Arches NP - climb on sandstone fins, through arches, lots of great playing in one of our favorite parks.
Canyonlands NP - we like this better than the Grand Canyon. Views from the rim really show the immensity of this area.
Mt. Lassen NP with it's thermal features and a relatively easy hike up a volcano
Lava Beds NM with a number of lava tubes (small caves) kids can explore with flashlights.

For non-NPS places, a couple jump to mind:
The area near Durango has amazing mountain scenery. Ride the Durango - Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad. This steam powered trail takes you through amazing mountain views for a lunch stop at Silverton, one of the most authentic old mining towns with wooden sidewalks and dirt streets. I can't recommend this trip highly enough for those unaccustomed to high mountain scenery.

This is a great list. If you spent your time at these locations, you will have a trip your kids will never forget, and will not looking forward to getting home because they are sick of driving. And don't miss the Durango - Silverton Railroad. Our daughter was around 11 when we took her there. She's 26 now and never forgot it.

At the Grand Canyon, definitely make reservations for Trailer Village. We were there in September. Don't just take a bus and walk to the rim and head back to the bus. Explore the Canyon, hike down Bright Angel Trail, at least to the 1.5 mile mark (remembering you have to climb back up). Check out the El Tovar, etc. Our trip in September also included Arches and Canyonlands; excellent as well. They will also never forget Zion and Mesa Verde. If you go to Zion, I would also add Bryce Canyon to the list. But passing all of this beauty to drive to California to spend short stays at those locations, just seems to be a situation where you'll put in more effort and get less back in return. Save California for a separate trip. We've been there and enjoyed it, but all together would be too much in my opinion.

[Thom02099]

OP,

Others have given you some great suggestions! The ages of your kids will determine more how to apply the suggestions given than any other factor. What pre- and early- school kids enjoy will differ from middle and high school age kids.

In one of your comments, you indicated that you were looking to NOT go north of I-80, as you indicated that there may be another western trip in the future.

My suggestion, depending on the ages of your kids -- start planning 2 or 3 different trips now, based on these suggestions. If your kids are really young, 3 trips west before they graduate high school could be doable. If they are teens, 2 trips could still be doable.

On one trip, focus on California, if that's a must see type trip. Certainly, others have given great suggestions for the Golden State.

For another trip, focus on the 4 Corners States. There is such diversity in these 4 states and lots of good suggestions have been made previously.

For a 3rd trip, focus on that "north of I-80" trip...Yellowstone/Tetons, the PNW, Glacier, etc, with a possible excursion in to Canada depending on your time element.

If your kids are very young, you'll need to allow for less time driving, more time camping. Been there/done that/won the t-shirt! Back in the day, when my kids were young, we sacrificed expediency to quality of time at locales and kept our itineraries more focused. As the kids got older, we could broaden that. You may want to consider doing something similar....again, depending on the ages of your kiddos.

[C-Bears]

Nunyadamn wrote:
Might I give you just a hint about California camping - if you want to stay anywhere during the summer or on a weekend, you better make reservations at least 6 months ahead. Planning a trip like that, it is good that you are planning now. For California in the summer, and the places you are talking about going, you will probably have to plan every day and make reservations far in advance.

Yellowstone, Yosemite, places like that during the summer will be busy. Get some of those reservations now. Actually there could be some CG's already filled up for the dates you would be requesting.

The rest you could make up as you go. I would pre-plan just enough that so I was not just doing a "poker fun" style vacation in an attempt to see everything. It would be better to take your time and stay in several places for a day or two at a time and use your TV to explore.

[4runnerguy]

You don't say how old your kids are and that makes a big difference in how I would answer some of your post. There's a huge difference between travelling with a 3, 5, and 7 year old and a 13, 15, and 17 year old, both in terms of how long they can handle being in the car and in the experiences they can do and will enjoy.

rwbradley wrote:
Because we are a family, we will likely make most stops at family friendly full hookup locations like KOA type parks where the kids can unwind after a long day in the car.

This concept may be OK for the trip out and back, but once you're at the National Parks, my advice is to forget trying to keep the kids happy with some artificial entertainment and let nature do that for them. Try to camp in the parks where there is often a lot to see and places to play. For instance, Watchman CG in Zion has a stream that flows beneath grand cottonwood trees right through the CG where kids build dams and splash around all day. At other CG's kids can play in the woods, hike trails, etc. I always think of the kids when I answer these types of posts, and to me, the most important thing is to give them new and unique experiences they will remember for a lifetime. They can visit swimming pools anywhere, but to stand at the edge of the Grand Canyon at sunset or to gaze waaaay up at a Sequoia is something they can't do at home.

As for some of the stops on your list, I don't find that Vegas is a place I'd take kids given all the other great sights in the western US. Disneyland is fun, but SoCal is a tough place to get around and not easy to find quiet CG's. I'd also skip SF as a tough place with an RV. I think SoCal attractions like Disney are best visited by flying in, renting a car and staying in a motel. There is some interesting camping near beaches once you get north of SF. Not as warm of water, but they are kids after all.

Instead of I-80 for your return, how about taking the more scenic and interesting (IMHO) US 50 across NV and hooking up with I-70 in UT? Great Basin NP off US 50 in NV has an interesting cave and is a mountain oasis in the desert for an overnight stop. I-70 also will take you near Moab with Arches and Canyonlands NP's. Hot in the summer, but lots of great activities for kids. That will also take you into CO where it will be cooler in the summer.

Of all the places on your list, Yosemite is the most difficult for CG reservations. But worth the effort.

Again, I don't know your kids ages, but my list of places that kids will be Wow'ed by:

Mesa Verde NP it takes a full day to see a couple of ruins. Book a guided trip in advance -- well worth it.
Grand Canyon NP camp at trailer village and take the shuttle around. camping in the park means you can be at the rim at sunrise and sunset -- the magical times
Zion NP - play in the river or hike up Zion Narrows, where you'll wade in knee deep+ water in a very narrow canyon. Cool temps even in the heat of summer
Arches NP - climb on sandstone fins, through arches, lots of great playing in one of our favorite parks.
Canyonlands NP - we like this better than the Grand Canyon. Views from the rim really show the immensity of this area.
Mt. Lassen NP with it's thermal features and a relatively easy hike up a volcano
Lava Beds NM with a number of lava tubes (small caves) kids can explore with flashlights.

For non-NPS places, a couple jump to mind:
The area near Durango has amazing mountain scenery. Ride the Durango - Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad. This steam powered trail takes you through amazing mountain views for a lunch stop at Silverton, one of the most authentic old mining towns with wooden sidewalks and dirt streets. I can't recommend this trip highly enough for those unaccustomed to high mountain scenery.

Another area with loads to do for kids is the Upper Arkansas River Valley in central CO from Leadville down to Salida. Ghost towns to explore, great river rafting, fishing, mountain biking, lakes, streams, hot springs, etc. etc. Want to test your stamina? The mountains on the west side of the valley have a number of peaks over 14,000' high. Check out this website for more ideas.

rwbradley wrote:
but in my mind one day at Yosemite is better than never getting there.

But I have to think that for the kids, more days in fewer places will be more memorable that a lot of days driving.

[bikendan]

Your trip is too ambitious for a family, for that amount of distance and in that amount of time.
Plus, you would need reservations for the majority of the places and competition for Yosemite campsites is fierce for summer. You be better off trying for a CG outside the park.

[kknowlton]

We too like to drive no more than 6 hours a day, and IMO that takes some planning. Figure on averaging about 50 mph on the interstates, substantially less than that on 2-lane roads (this allows for gas/food/potty stops). Speed limits are higher in the west than the east, but depending on what you are camping in, you may need to take it slower. (I tend to drive about 62 mph when towing our TT.) You might find yourself surprised that you're not getting farther in one day if you map it out. (Good suggestion from rexlion, BTW.)

I agree with other posters that Mesa Verde is a good addition to the Grand Canyon; most/all of the southern Utah parks are as well, but a lot will depend on what your family's interests are. The national parks are worth the crowds, IMO. There is no substitute for their scenery - as already mentioned, that's why they became national parks. 🙂

KOAs and similar parks (don't overlook the Good Sam parks with similar amenities) are a good choice for families with kids. I'd make sure to choose CGs with a pool if possible, especially for the ones you'll use in transit - gives the kids a way to blow off steam and everyone to cool down after a long day in the heat.

Other than Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm (does it still exist?) and perhaps Universal Studios, I don't see much that kids will enjoy about L.A. It spreads forever and is huge - and the traffic moves fast, bumper to bumper. Ask your kids what they want to see & do; if they help plan the trip, they will be more interested in it.

Don't forget things to see & do along the way. We have found it helps reduce trip fatigue if we spend every 3rd or 4th day "in camp" - not on the road, but staying an extra night in the same CG and either relaxing or seeing some of the local sights. Gives you a chance to catch up on groceries & laundry that way too. 🙂

[rexlion]

What kind of camping rig will you have? How many kids, and what are their ages? That will help people to know what suggestions to make.

The long list of places Busskipper gave you were some places to think about and pick through; we all know that you don't have time for every single one of them.

It's fun to dream and plan, and you've got a good jump on that. Plenty of time to think things out and do research. I like to research places, too.

When going west for the first time, it's good to find out what the typical weather is like in the places you're thinking about at that time of year. I use a weather website like www.wunderground; I punch in a town/state and it brings up today's weather, then I scroll down and get the historical info and select the right month. That way I see typical highs and lows, record highs and lows, and precipitation info too. I don't know for sure what month you'll be traveling, but let me tell you, if it's between June 15 and Sept. 1 the temps will be mighty hot in desert areas below about 7000' elevation.

So you find out the weather info. Then you decide if you are going to feel ok in those temps. If not, start looking at a topo map to see where the higher elevations are at. Google Maps has a "terrain" feature you can select from the drop-down box in upper left of their screen, and it shows topography gridlines with elevation numbers. Figure that the higher you go, the cooler it will be. The north rim of Grand Canyon is about 8000' and is way less crowded than the south rim, which makes for good camping; search older threads here for info on places to dry camp in the national forest just outside the park boundary, for an "alone in the woods" type of experience that your kids might like.

If you want to drive only 350 miles per day, fine, it's your vacation and you shouldn't overdo it and make the family miserable. Get the map out and see how far 350 miles takes you each day. At each juncture, use online CG directories and info to select potential campsites near that point. If you don't like what you see CG-wise, you may have to adjust the day longer or shorter. But hopefully you'll see 2 or 3 (or more) acceptable places to camp near each end-of-day point. This is what I do... and I don't make reservations, because I prefer to keep it all flexible in case I change my mind and want to drive more or drive less or take a detour in another direction. But if you feel uncomfortable with that, then make your reservations; just remember that one sick kid one day can throw off the whole shebang.

Do you need reservations in the full hookup CG in Grand Canyon (south rim)? Almost certainly. And in Yosemite valley, you bet. But do you need reservations to see those places? No! The south rim's Desert View CG has no hookups but is a first-come CG, no reservations, and if you arrive at a decent time of day you should get a site easily enough. For the north rim, besides the boondocking I mentioned, there's a NF CG as well as Kaibab Camper Village (the latter is FHU) up the road at Jacob Lake. As for Yosemite, one can find first-come campsites outside of the valley but still in the park; plan to arrive there by early afternoon, Sunday through Wednesday, for best prospects. I spent a week at Yosemite... I snagged late reservations (1-2 weeks before departure) in the valley for two nights, and added 5 nights at first-come Bridalveil. My point here is, you can strategize and get around the need for reservations most of the time.

If you map out your stops on the way out and back, and add up the days you've used for travel, see how many days are left for the big destinations. If it's not enough time, adjust. Either drive more miles each day, or pick closer (or less) destinations. Above all, keep the trip relaxed and stress free as much as possible... or it's not a vacation after all.

There really is no place like Grand Canyon; that said, a few hours on the south rim was enough for the kids and me (back in the '90s). There's no place like Yosemite, either. Yosemite, though, is worth several days; I kept returning to Glacier Point day after day to take pictures in different lighting, eat ice cream from the little shop, and just sit and enjoy the view.

Grand Canyon, Bryce, Zion, Hoover Dam, and Las Vegas are all in fairly close proximity. From Vegas, it's one (long-ish) day to the Mono Lake area, from which one can reach Yosemite Valley in about 3 hours the next day (speed limits are necessarily low in the park).

By the way, if your kids are big enough, the Zion NP hike up the Narrows (walking in the river, with towering stone walls around you) is a do-not-miss, bucket-list-level activity.

[sdianel_-acct_c]

I would also skip San Francisco and focus on the rest.
Grand Canyon, Sequoia and Yosemite should stay on the list.
We like KOA's for camping.
Once you get your route nailed down, we can better help with stops. Where will you pick up I-40?
I would only make reservations for most campgrounds if it's the weekend, holiday or popular tourist attraction. We call ahead the same day to make sure they have sites and arrive early (before 4pm). Most popular areas are booked a year in advance. So you may have to stay off site and drive to the tourist sites. We usually do that anyway.

[Puttin]

rwbradley,

I didn't read everything in this thread but in my opinion, the Colorado River Valley would be fun for you all and really has its own "wow factor". Check out Topoc Gorge at the North end of Lake Havasu in Az. Take a jetboat ride tour up there- it takes a few hours and do it anytime from Nov. to May or in October. The area has things for anybody to enjoy. Personally, being from the S.F. Bay Area I'd avoid the big city areas entirely. The Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta is beautiful as well and lots of natural habitat to enjoy. Feel free to send me a p.m. and I can suggest some good camping spots. Enjoy your trip!

[Dick_B]

I'd try to put Theodore Roosevelt National Park on your list and get up close and personal with bison (not buffalo) and prairie dogs. Why do they get along so well? Take the Ranger tour and find out.