Appropriate pin weight when buying 5th wheel?

[rhetthughes]

I am starting to think about fifth wheels for our next camper. We have a 2016 F350 with the 6.7 powerstroke. It’s a shortbed too. The cargo weight is 3470. And the max towing capacity with a 5th wheel is 16,000 lbs. The total weight of our family is about 430 lbs. I’m curious what you experienced 5th wheel campers would consider to be the safe pin weight limit for us given our truck’s specs. I’m not looking for what the max COULD be, but rather if anyone else has a truck like ours and can share their experiences of what they feel comfortable pulling. I’m curious if there is a point with the pin weight that will effect the driving performance too much? For example, I love a particular 5th wheel that has a 2600 lb dry hitch weight. I feel uneasy about being that close to the roughly 3000 lb cargo weight I have leftover after subtracting the weight of the family. So any advice here would be much appreciated. Should I be sticking with a pin weight closer to 2000 lbs? At any rate, this will really help me narrow my search on what I should be looking for in a camper. Thanks kindly!

[Ivylog]

There is no reason to have 20-25% pin weight on a 5er other than the manufacturer can put cheaper axles and tires under it. Add a storage box on the back of the 5er and put heavy things back there and get the size/floorplan you want. Make sure it has larger axles and tires than just enough to get by...if the total dry weight is 13,000 lbs you need at least 7K axles.

Comparing a 25,000 lb equipment trailer where you can shift the load to decrease the pin weight does apply to a 25K 5er where you could have 5,000 lbs of pin weight. Yes I've pulled trailers heavier than that with my F350 SRW.

[Cummins12V98]

"It is your call to go over GVWR, but even Cummins12V98 is pushing his rear axle rating."

I am running at my RAWR and I FAR exceed my GVWR of 14K. FACT is the 14k is just a number if they rate any higher it will be thrown into a commercial classification. Fact is even the F450 is only rated at 14k.

Take my factory front axle weight of 5,200# or so then add it to the SAE rated RAWR of 9,750#, HMMMMMM what the heck??? I have now exceeded my 14K by 950# at a weight of 14,950#.

Not an issue as long as you are licensed to carry your weight on the 6 tires as I am.

I know YOU understand this Russ!

[rhagfo]

2112 wrote:
I have towed a 9000lb TT and a 9000lb FW. Yes, it's apples to oranges. The FW is sssoooo much more stable.

The TT was doable but white knuckle and nerve racking. It was the tail wagging the dog every time I was passed or fighting a side wind. I would be a wore out nervous wreck at the end of the day. The FW is comfortable and enjoyable. I can tow the FW all day long and be relaxed at the end of the day. I really enjoy driving my current rig.
__________________________________________________________________________________
2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens, PullRite SuperGlide 2700 15K
2013 KZ Durango 2857

Cummins12V98 wrote:
With a 5er it's NOT what you can tow but what you can carry! A 5er will have a minimum of 20% pin and easily up to 25%. Know what your rear axle weighs with ALL bodies, hitch, toolbox and anything else loaded. Subtract the rear axle weight from your RAWR. See you can't really cary that 16K 5er now can you???
___________________________________________________________________________________
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

That first line from 2112 says it all!

I see many F150's, Tundras, and other 1/2 ton PU's pulling and carrying 5ers. Very seldom are they head lights to the sky, they sit level and so does the 5er. This tells my the operator has done a good job of setting up his combination.

I am one that runs to Tires and rear axle rating. Most PU axle ratings are rated to the tires listed on either the VIN sticker or the Payload/tire sticker. In my case no extra capacity for the larger optional tires, as the VIN still only list the OEM size.
I think you could get close to 2,800# pin, if you don't load a bunch of stuff in the bed of the TV, that is about a 14,000# max 5er.

It is your call to go over GVWR, but even Cummins12V98 is pushing his rear axle rating.

[Cummins12V98]

With a 5er it's NOT what you can tow but what you can carry! A 5er will have a minimum of 20% pin and easily up to 25%. Know what your rear axle weighs with ALL bodies, hitch, toolbox and anything else loaded. Subtract the rear axle weight from your RAWR. See you can't really cary that 16K 5er now can you???

[2112]

I have towed a 9000lb TT and a 9000lb FW. Yes, it's apples to oranges. The FW is sssoooo much more stable.

The TT was doable but white knuckle and nerve racking. It was the tail wagging the dog every time I was passed or fighting a side wind. I would be a wore out nervous wreck at the end of the day. The FW is comfortable and enjoyable. I can tow the FW all day long and be relaxed at the end of the day. I really enjoy driving my current rig.

[nickthehunter]

You should be able to handle a 13,000 lbs GVWR 5er with 100 lbs of firewood in the back of the truck without a problem with that truck. What you feel comfortable with is a question only you can answer. Some people may only feel comfortable with a 10,000 lbs 5er and no firewood.

[MFL]

That is a lot of TT to tow behind a 150! Yes, apples to oranges, comparing. Your 350 towing a FW right to the max, will be a much better experience. For that matter, even towing a FW weighing 8K with your 150 would have been a better experience, even if over payload.

Good luck in your new adventure!

Jerry

[rhetthughes]

Thank y’all for the suggestions here and words of wisdom. I will take it loaded out to the scales sometime and check that out. I imagine like was posted by Edd505, I don’t think I’ll be putting much in the bed other than the hitch. I’ll tell you why I even asked what is “safe” or “comfortable” to tow 1) I don’t know how fifth wheel trailers pull since I’ve never done it. And 2) I base all my towing experience on pulling an 8000 lb travel trailer (loaded) with a 2014 F150 with max towing specs, etc. Hitch weight and trailer weight were well under the trucks capabilities. We now have a 350 because I was tired of white knuckling down the highway. Have pulled our camper with the 350 it is like I don’t even have a trailer behind me. So my thinking was, if I get too close to the trucks limits, I might start having those white knuckling adventures again. Has anyone noticed that with their 350 or 3500? Maybe went from a 10,000 lb 5th wheel with a 2000 lb pin weight to a much bigger fifth wheel and higher pin weight? Any white knuckle adventures that might give me reason to reconsider getting near the upper limits of what the truck can do? Bottom line is I just would prefer not to be in the same boat as I am now. I’ve heard that 5th wheels tow much better than a travel trailer so perhaps my question is way off base as I am comparing apples (5th wheels) to oranges (travel trailers).

[MFL]

Most so called 1/2 ton towable FWs have a GVWR of about 10K, with a potential pin wt of 2K. There are SOME 1/2 tons, that are actually capable. This, just an example, as your F350 is capable of much more than a 2K pin wt.

I agree with JIMNLIN, and Old-Biscuit, to figure your trucks pin wt ability.

Jerry

[4x4ord]

The Ford engineers have told you what a safe pin weight is. Large safety margins have been used to come up with the trucks carrying capacity there is absolutely no need for you to add to that safety margin. I certainly know of 2011-2016 f350 srw trucks going down the road pulling 25000 lb equipment trailers and it doesn't seem to bother the truck a bit. You should feel very safe and comfortable towing right up to the manufacturer's payload limit.

[valhalla360]

rhetthughes wrote:
I’m not looking for what the max COULD be, but rather if anyone else has a truck like ours and can share their experiences of what they feel comfortable pulling.

The max is perfectly fine. No reason to de-rate it. If it wasn't the max would be lower.

Subtract the family, the hitch and anything else you are carrying in the truck and that's what you can handle in pin weight.

If it doesn't pull it safely, something was already wrong with the truck.

[Old-Biscuit]

Dry hitch weight means nothing ...... you don't tow a empty trailer

Dry hitch weight can give you an idea what trailers pin weight ratio is

A 13,000# DRY trailer weight (Unloaded Weight) with 20% pin weight would be 2600# DRY pin weight

Use that dry trailer weight to dry pin weight ratio to get an idea what trailers Wet pin weight could be based on the trailers GVWR
(16,0000# GVWR 20% pin ratio----3200# pin weight)

Pin weight ratios of 20% to 25% are typical
Heavier pin ...better towing result on a 5th wheel

AS suggested by LIMNLIN .....go get truck weighed 'camp ready'
Weight on rear axle subtracted from trucks RAWR equals amount of 'pin weight' you can add to rear axle before being overloaded.

[Edd505]

That's 600lbs margin on the truck. With a short bed what else would you carry in the truck that's 600lbs? I have a long bed with a tool box full and I don't think it would weigh 600lbs. I have a Husky 26K hitch about 250lbs, heavier than most hitches. (over kill but a great deal used)
JMHO

[JIMNLIN]

Take your truck with all the kids/dogs/cats/wife other junk you will be carrying when road ready down to the scales and weigh the trucks front and rear axles separately. A 5th wheel trailer adds little to no weight on the trucks front axle...so pay attention to the trucks rear axle (RAWR numbers from your trucks door post) as its carrying all the pin weight plus a hitch and other gear in the bed.

The F350 SRW will handle like other one ton SRW trucks with a max load or a 50 percent load. Point is pay attention to other one ton SRW truck owners also.