First 5er, Weight Questions

[FilthyPlumber]

Picking up my first 5th wheel in a couple weeks.

2004 National Rage'n Toy Hauler
-30ft
-UVW: 8160 lbs
-Carrying Capacity: 4867 lbs
- GVWR: 13,920 lbs
75 gal fresh water tank, 15 gal LPG, not sure on fuel tank size.
(dealer is going to call me tomorrow with the the unloaded pin weight)

Tow Vehicle:
2008 Dodge Ram 2500HD Quad Cab Short Bed
-6.7 Cummins TD
-6 speed auto
-3.73 rear end
-Factory Engine brake
-Prodigy P2 Electric Brake controller
-Truck is completely stock
-12,900 lbs Max Trailer
-2060 lbs Payload
-6010 GAWR (rear)
-20,000 GCWR
Planning on taking my truck to the scale in the next week or so to get a base weight with just myself and a full tank plus the weight on the rear axle.

Water tank will never be full when traveling (minimal until I arrive to location with hookups or get closer to camp site), when camping with friends I will be empty with just myself and my lady (gear will be in separate truck), When traveling to Idaho It will be just myself (maybe the lady as well) and my 500 lb Harley in the back along with cloths and such. Is 1800 lbs a reasonable estimate of added weight or is that lowballing?

I'd Like to keep the trailer at 10k or less. That gives me the 1500-2500 tongue weight at 15-25%. I really hope it's closer to the 15-20% range. I know that has a lot to do with loading. I'm also waiting on the dealer to give me the pin weight thats on the trailer. Once I have that I will be able to calculate the UVW pin weight.

Air Bags are next on the list.

Thanks for any info and opinions!


**3/22/17 UPDATE: RAWR: 6010 lbs, RAW: 2960 lbs. Gross: 7400**

[FilthyPlumber]

Lantley wrote:
Do you have scaled weights for the trailer? You need to weigh the trailer and truck together to have any meaningful results. Otherwise I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish?

Next time I have the trailer on I will scale it.
Empty weight is roughly 8300 lbs (+/-) thats the brochure weight but the actual empty weight can't be far enough off to cause issues. What I was trying to "accomplish" by my previous post was my max trailer/pin weight.

[Lantley]

Do you have scaled weights for the trailer? You need to weigh the trailer and truck together to have any meaningful results. Otherwise I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish?

[FilthyPlumber]

Finally got a chance to get weighed while the scale was open.
weights are me and a full tank of gas with 5er hitch in bed. (all gear will be in the trailer)

RAWR: 6010 lbs, Weighed: 2960 lbs, which leaves 3050 lbs.
GCWR: 20,000 lbs, Gross Truck Weight: 7400 lbs, which leaves 12,600 lbs for trailer.
Considering I will NEVER have it loaded to 12,600 lbs, at a 25% pin weight, that allows me 12,200 lbs for my trailer.

with the numbers, I Believe I will be perfectly fine yeah?

Thanks for all the input!

[FilthyPlumber]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions, I will find a scale and do all my hand math with real time numbers. Was trying to get an idea before pick up day. Picking it up in 2 days.

[FilthyPlumber]

CDP wrote:
If you subtract the trailer "GVWR: 13,920 lbs" from the "20,000 GCWR" for the truck, you're left with only 6,080 pounds for the truck. To be honest with you, I would suspect the empty truck weighs in somewhere near that figure. Would it not? Going over the MGCWR for the truck is never a good idea IMHO.

.


It'll never be even close to the 13,900. Just me and maybe my lady. Heaviest toy I have is the 500# Harley. But I've already covered all of your concerns in the original post. I'm also not concerned with the full weight of the trailer as the truck will pull it. I'm curious about the pin weight.

[CDP]

If you subtract the trailer "GVWR: 13,920 lbs" from the "20,000 GCWR" for the truck, you're left with only 6,080 pounds for the truck. To be honest with you, I would suspect the empty truck weighs in somewhere near that figure. Would it not? Going over the MGCWR for the truck is never a good idea IMHO.

[FilthyPlumber]

lincster wrote:
Where are your water tanks located?
In front or behind the axles?

Water will affect the pin weight more than toys will.

2 axle or 3 axle? This will also affect pin weight.
I think you will be right on the edge of staying within the tow ratings of your truck.

I have a 41' Warrior, 3 axle.
My empty pin weight is 2650lbs.
Fully loaded with 150 gallons of water, gear, 2700lb sand rail (which majority of rail weight is behind the trailer axles), 1 full size quad (sitting right in front of the axles) my pin weight goes up to 3400lbs.

I have put my entire setup on a CAT scale multiple times.

Not sure on tank location. Picking up this weekend so I will get back to you on that. Not planning to have it filled when traveling until the very end and most times I'll have water hookups.

Trailer is 2 axel.

I also have onboard fuel. Not sure where that tank is either but I can probably fill those as needed to help with weight distribution?

[lincster]

Where are your water tanks located?
In front or behind the axles?

Water will affect the pin weight more than toys will.

2 axle or 3 axle? This will also affect pin weight.
I think you will be right on the edge of staying within the tow ratings of your truck.

I have a 41' Warrior, 3 axle.
My empty pin weight is 2650lbs.
Fully loaded with 150 gallons of water, gear, 2700lb sand rail (which majority of rail weight is behind the trailer axles), 1 full size quad (sitting right in front of the axles) my pin weight goes up to 3400lbs.

I have put my entire setup on a CAT scale multiple times.

[BarneyS]

Moved to Toy Hauler forum from 5th Wheel forum per OP request.

[rhagfo]

IdaD wrote:
As I read OP's post he's talking about a 30' long fifth wheel that may weigh 10-10.5k lbs loaded. I'm not sure how that's outside the wheelhouse of his truck.

X2.
At about 10.5 with the Harley in the garage, likely will be under all ratings including GVWR. The 17" tires would be good to 6390# on the rear axle if he chose to go that route.

[Cummins12V98]

FilthyPlumber wrote:
Appreciate all the opinions and info. Checked my tires on my lunch and they are load range E 3195lbs.

Also, I plan on loading everything over the axels on the trailer. Not much if anything will be infront of the axles except what is needed to keep the pin from bouncing. Is this a good/bad idea?

MOST 5er's you will be adding weight on and mostly in front of axles. 20 percent pin is as light as most will be.

[FilthyPlumber]

Appreciate all the opinions and info. Checked my tires on my lunch and they are load range E 3195lbs.

Also, I plan on loading everything over the axels on the trailer. Not much if anything will be infront of the axles except what is needed to keep the pin from bouncing. Is this a good/bad idea?

[Old-Biscuit]

jerem0621 wrote:
My dad had a 15k wet fiver with his 03 2500 Ram QC 2WD CTD. He used it for work and towed it all over the country. He put about 30k miles on that combo. He uses a time based brake controller and a Curt 20k sliding hitch. The truck now has about 250k miles and still runs like a champ. Truck was level when hitched up.

But, he now pulls a fiver that is about 8,500 lbs dry and he is much happier. After all those miles he found the day that the wind was right and blew him all over the road with that 15k rig. He sold it shortly after that.

The old one was pretty old and he wanted a newer one. The new one hardly squats the truck.

Imho you won't even give the truck a decent workout with that tiny fiver. And that's based on real world evidence watching my Dad and his truck over the past 10 years.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Your DAD towed what he had with what he had........but it was NOT a good towing match

That 03 2500 was overloaded.......period

Over on GVWR, over on RAWR, over on rear tires, over on GCVWR
DAD just 'justified' cause that was what he had to tow with.





And per my 1st post.......
OPs 04 2500 will be OK IF he stays under 11K and 22% pin weight
12K will out him over.

[Lwiddis]

Too little truck or too much 5er IMHO.