Ford's payload capacity confusion

[azjeffh]

Just ordered a new 5er and looking for a truck to pull it (21K GVWR).

According to Ford's website, I should be able to get a 2016 F350 4X4 dually diesel that has a 14K GVWR with a 6460 payload capacity. The problem is when I went to look at one last week the label on the door stated ~5400 lbs payload. To me that doesn't make much sense since I doubt the vehicle's unladen weight is 8600 lbs. Shouldn't GVWR-CCC=unladen? I did verify the vehicle did indeed have a 14K GVWR placard. The GCWR is 35K which should be well within the limits of the combo.

In addition I'm trying to decide between the 3.73 and the 4.30 rear end. I understand the 4.30 has a 3K greater towing capacity (26.5K vs 23.5K) but will likely burn more fuel. I really don't understand the other advantages of the 4.30.

I had considered the F450 but oddly enough the payload is stated at only 5300 lbs which is really confusing to me.

We plan to full time and travel the US so I'd like to get this right the first time.

[Best_Coast_Camp]

Id get an M class freightliner for that weight.

[CarlT100]

I would get the max tow package. That package gives you a wider front axle and the 4.30 rear end.You will love the improved turning radius of the wider front axle. My F450 crew cab, long bed out turns my wife's Ram 1500. Unloaded, you will get fewer mpg than with the 3.73; loaded, the difference is almost negligible. You will definitely appreciate the the 4.30 in the hills and mountains.

Any dually will serve you well. The advantage of the 450 is better brakes and a heavier frame.

[spud1957]

That DRV's dry pin weight is 20% of it's published dry weight. Using that ratio, and you end up with a loaded weight of around 20K, your pin weight would be around 4-4500lbs.

Any DRW truck will work.

[spud1957]

azjeffh wrote:
What prompted this thread was caused by a salesman. :h

After giving him my requirements (6400 payload being #1) he has me come look at a truck he has in stock that meets that requirement. When I open the door and see it has a ~5400 payload I bring it to his attention. He says impossible, it has a GVWR of 14K. I tell him Ford marked it, why would they lie?

Later on that evening he calls back and said he and another salesman have determined it has a 6400 payload capacity :S

I believe had I been able to get a truck with a 6400 lb payload it would have met my needs as it would have been under in all weights (GVWR,GCWR,RAWR). However it appears that is not going to happen.

Those salesmen DO NOT know what they are talking about. The brochure specifically says "maximum payload". Pretty self explanatory.

Here is a quote from Ford's Towing guide regarding trailer weight and payload. Should get them to read it.

"Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle."


Unfortunately this is pretty well at most dealerships. Had the same conversation with a salesman where I deal. Tried to tell me an F150 will haul a 12K 5th wheel. Tried to explain why it's payload/axle rating wouldn't allow it and he just looked at me like I had 2 heads.

Bottom line is the payload of a specific truck is on the door post label. Ford puts it there. Do not let any pencil neck salesperson tell you otherwise.

S

[momentum_rv]

You'll be fine with a 350 DRW with the 14K package. Your trailer is slightly smaller and lighter than mine and mine does fine.


Mobile Suites 38RSSA Specs

Sleeps 3

Slides 4

Hitch Weight 3,000 lbs

Ship Weight 15,000 lbs

Length 38'-11"

Height 13'-0"

Width 8'-5"

Fresh Water 100 gal

Gray Water 75 gal

Black Water 50 gal

L.P. Capacity 80 gal

Tire Size 17.5"

Furnace BTU 40,000 btu

[azjeffh]

PRodacy wrote:
Look at GMC and Dodge. They may have better payloads available.

Looked at Chevy and IIRC according to their brochure and they had a 5300 max payload with a GCWR of 30,500 which is not enough. Not sure about GMC but believe it would be similar. Ram advertises a payload of 6580 and a GCWR of 39100 but I would want to verify it on the truck.

[NWKomfort350]

rosspulliam wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

azjeffh wrote:
Just ordered a new 5er and looking for a truck to pull it (21K GVWR).

According to Ford's website, I should be able to get a 2016 F350 4X4 dually diesel that has a 14K GVWR with a 6460 payload capacity. The problem is when I went to look at one last week the label on the door stated ~5400 lbs payload. To me that doesn't make much sense since I doubt the vehicle's unladen weight is 8600 lbs. Shouldn't GVWR-CCC=unladen? I did verify the vehicle did indeed have a 14K GVWR placard. The GCWR is 35K which should be well within the limits of the combo.

In addition I'm trying to decide between the 3.73 and the 4.30 rear end. I understand the 4.30 has a 3K greater towing capacity (26.5K vs 23.5K) but will likely burn more fuel. I really don't understand the other advantages of the 4.30.

I had considered the F450 but oddly enough the payload is stated at only 5300 lbs which is really confusing to me.

We plan to full time and travel the US so I'd like to get this right the first time.

Ford posted the 450 with a 14,000# GVWR to be able to have it in the same class as the Ram and Chevy 3500. The 450 is a heavy chassis so it will have less payload than a 350 if you go by the door.

So the OEMs play with the numbers on the door in order to play marketing games?

Who woulda thunk it?

Both the 350 and 450 have a 14K GVWR. The 450 weighs more, and this is why it has a lower payload.

It looks like the Ford is going on a diet in 2017, so that should help payload.

[azjeffh]

What prompted this thread was caused by a salesman. :h

After giving him my requirements (6400 payload being #1) he has me come look at a truck he has in stock that meets that requirement. When I open the door and see it has a ~5400 payload I bring it to his attention. He says impossible, it has a GVWR of 14K. I tell him Ford marked it, why would they lie?

Later on that evening he calls back and said he and another salesman have determined it has a 6400 payload capacity :S

I believe had I been able to get a truck with a 6400 lb payload it would have met my needs as it would have been under in all weights (GVWR,GCWR,RAWR). However it appears that is not going to happen.

[rosspulliam]

transamz9 wrote:

azjeffh wrote:
Just ordered a new 5er and looking for a truck to pull it (21K GVWR).

According to Ford's website, I should be able to get a 2016 F350 4X4 dually diesel that has a 14K GVWR with a 6460 payload capacity. The problem is when I went to look at one last week the label on the door stated ~5400 lbs payload. To me that doesn't make much sense since I doubt the vehicle's unladen weight is 8600 lbs. Shouldn't GVWR-CCC=unladen? I did verify the vehicle did indeed have a 14K GVWR placard. The GCWR is 35K which should be well within the limits of the combo.

In addition I'm trying to decide between the 3.73 and the 4.30 rear end. I understand the 4.30 has a 3K greater towing capacity (26.5K vs 23.5K) but will likely burn more fuel. I really don't understand the other advantages of the 4.30.

I had considered the F450 but oddly enough the payload is stated at only 5300 lbs which is really confusing to me.

We plan to full time and travel the US so I'd like to get this right the first time.

Ford posted the 450 with a 14,000# GVWR to be able to have it in the same class as the Ram and Chevy 3500. The 450 is a heavy chassis so it will have less payload than a 350 if you go by the door.

So the OEMs play with the numbers on the door in order to play marketing games?

Who woulda thunk it?

[PRodacy]

Look at GMC and Dodge. They may have better payloads available.

[Colo_Native]

stickdog wrote:
Jeff, if you don't think a 350 4x4 drw doesn't weigh 8600 lbs take it out for a test ride and drop by a scales.

My 2015 F250 weighs 8740# I have a 50 gal fuel tank and a retrax cover that is it that weight was me the wife and fuel tank

[azjeffh]

spud1957 wrote:


Curious what rig you are looking at that has a pin weight of 5200lbs?

Ordered a DRV 38RSSA and am planning on 25% to be on the safe side.

[spud1957]

azjeffh wrote:

lenr wrote:
You nèed to allow some extra pin weight capacity in picking your truck.

Yeah, that's why I was hoping for 6400 lbs. I'm planning on a 5200 pin weight and know with my current setup that the me, wife, hitch and cargo add ~600 lbs, so I would need 5800 minimum.

Curious what rig you are looking at that has a pin weight of 5200lbs?

[azjeffh]

lenr wrote:
You nèed to allow some extra pin weight capacity in picking your truck.

Yeah, that's why I was hoping for 6400 lbs. I'm planning on a 5200 pin weight and know with my current setup that the me, wife, hitch and cargo add ~600 lbs, so I would need 5800 minimum.

[transamz9]

laknox wrote:

azjeffh wrote:
Just ordered a new 5er and looking for a truck to pull it (21K GVWR).

According to Ford's website, I should be able to get a 2016 F350 4X4 dually diesel that has a 14K GVWR with a 6460 payload capacity. The problem is when I went to look at one last week the label on the door stated ~5400 lbs payload. To me that doesn't make much sense since I doubt the vehicle's unladen weight is 8600 lbs. Shouldn't GVWR-CCC=unladen? I did verify the vehicle did indeed have a 14K GVWR placard. The GCWR is 35K which should be well within the limits of the combo.

In addition I'm trying to decide between the 3.73 and the 4.30 rear end. I understand the 4.30 has a 3K greater towing capacity (26.5K vs 23.5K) but will likely burn more fuel. I really don't understand the other advantages of the 4.30.

I had considered the F450 but oddly enough the payload is stated at only 5300 lbs which is really confusing to me.

We plan to full time and travel the US so I'd like to get this right the first time.

First off, Jeff, IMO a 350 simply isn't going to handle a FW of that size. You've been around here long enough that you should know that it's not what you can TOW, it's what you can CARRY. The truck's payload is based on a stripped, 2wd, gasser, single cab, with no options. When you start adding stuff, including people, fuel, hitch and "stuff", that all comes off the base payload. The sticker on the door is what's "left over" after the diesel engine goes in, the extra cab is added and the 4wd is put in place. That's where you "lost" that 1,000 lbs. You add a good hitch, that's another ~200 lbs; 2 people is another ~300 lbs; more people means less usable payload for the FW. See the discussion going on here, for a similar situation: http://forums.trailerlife.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28654682.cfm. With a 21k GVW on the FW, you're solid into a 450, or bigger, truck; again, IMO.

As for the rear end, if you plan on traveling extensively in the western U.S. and Canada, get the 4.10. If you plan on doing most of your traveling east of the Rockies, the 3.73 would be fine. You gain both easier uphills and more engine braking on the downhills with the 4.10; you gain MPG with the 3.73, but sacrifice on the other side.

Lyle

Going by the door sticker the OP has already stated that the 450 has less payload than a 350.