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[quentinlindsay]

New here.
Looking for a little help on a few issues.
First, I have a 2013 Ram 2500 single with cummins 6.7l and I am looking at a 38ft 5th @ 10800 dry weight. Anyone see any issues towing that combination??
Also, that trailer puts me over for the standard class 5 drivers license in my area (New Brunswick, Canada)so I would technically require a commercial class 3... however, I am hearing from many people that tow large RV's that they don't bother as enforcement of this for RV's is virtually non existent. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

[2008Wildcat]

Well, here is the Trailer Life tow guides compiled from all the manufacturers.

Trailer Life Tow Guides

If you can find a 2013 RAM 2500 in the 2013 tow guide that is rated for 17,000 lbs, then I owe a public apology....

And you are already over the DRY hitch weight as you indicated in your post above. Don't you plan on taking ANYTHING with you?? All the storage is under the nose on a 5th wheel, so everything you put in there will add to pin weight.

[quentinlindsay]

I have the 2013 Ram 2500 Laramie Longhorn Crew Cab 4X4. It is rated @ 370 ponies @ 2800 RPM, and has 800 ft-lbs @ 1600 RPM. There is no doubt about the juice to pull. Rated for 17000 and change to pull. As for stopping, it has factory electric brake control with auto sensing adjustments as well as factory J Brake with auto sensing or manual if wanted. Also has hill assist. HD alternator and transmission cooler. This model also has auto air intake that decides if it wants to take air from the cab or the outside depending on temperature/humidity etc...
As for the weights, I am fortunate to work where there is a scale, and weighed in today. 4940lbs on front axles and 2960 on rear with me and a cup of water and a smile from ear to ear. I got a hot little wife and a 3 and 6 year old whose combined weight might equal that of my 225lbs. Throw in a bit of "junk" for the road (200lbs at most as anything else would be in trailer), and if that was split between the front and rear axles evenly then you could say that I got 8600lbs total for truck. So far, that is 700 or so payload from the 2600 the truck is rated for. That leaves me 1900.
Trailer I am looking at is a copper canyon 324fwbhs (2014), and it has a dry weight of 10800lbs and tongue of 2100lbs @ 20%. Yes, that is a little over the payload for the truck that is left, but if I load properly that can be compensated a little, and if not, then well If that truck can't handle 200lbs over then I should have left it there at the dealer (and helped you Ford and Chev guys with pushing your trucks home.. LOL). I know from my work that there are "error" factors built into these ratings so that there is some room for people (like me) who push the limit. Usually it is anywhere from 25 to 50%. Rarely less than 25%. In other words, the real designed payload for 2600 rated would be 3250 to 3900lb.s, but the lower number is the "safety net" to protect the engineers, Ram, etc...from liability for people who push the limit. After all, if they said it was good for 3900lbs because that what tests showed to be the limit, then people would be all over them like gravy for the anomalies that snapped just below the test limits.
What I am really interested in is hearing from people with similar vehicles and set ups and hear how they have fared in regards to tranny's, control, heating etc...
Again thank to all those who are trying to help - and thanks to the condescending bunch as well as you keep a smile on my face and entertain me.

[dballentine]

Ezbagr wrote:
I came across this towing chart for 2013 Ram 2500`s-here is the link
http://blogs.cars.com/files/8-ram-2500-hd-towing-2013_01-08-13.pdf
According to this chart his truck can tow a trailer in the 16,500-17,000 territory. As other people have said the GAWR of the rear axle will probably be
the limiting factor. Saying that, they show the base weight of the rear axle in the 2700-2800 pound area and the GAWR of the rear tires at 6200 pounds and the GVWR at 10,000 pounds. They also show the total basee weight at 7000-7200 pounds.
So say the base comes in a little higher and when loaded with fuel and ready to go camping the 7700-7800 and say the rear axle is 250 pounds heavier.
So with the real axle weighing in at 3100 pounds he has still got 3100 pounds left for pin weight. Yes he will be over the GVWR but he will be right at his GAWR of the rear axle.
So he may well be able to tow this trailer. He will be over GVWR but most people tend to agree that this number doesn`t hold much water and that you really need to make sure you are not over the rear axle GAWR.
Now don`t get me wrong, he DOES need to go weight his truck full of fuel and ready to go to see where he is at with his weights and also come up with a educated guess on the pin weight but he might be very close to being in specs except for the GVWR.

I missed what specific model we're looking at. There's quite a range for base weight and available payload, depending on cab, bed, drive, and trim level.

For example, consider the CREW CAB SHORT BOX 4X2 ST/TRADESMAN.
Base weight = 6,876 lbs, for a payload of 3120. Less 700 for cargo, and there's 2420 left for pin weight. At 20% pin, that's 12,100 lbs trailer weight, but at 25% pin it's only 9680.

On the other hand, a CREW CAB LONG BOX 4X4 LONGHORN has a Base weight = 7710, resulting in gross payload of 2290 lbs, and 1590 left for pin weight. At 20% that's a trailer of 7950 lbs; at 25% it's 5360 lbs.

(Both examples based on Towing Chart linked by Ezbagr. Assumes a Cummins 6.7L Diesel with Auto Trans. 700 lbs of pickup payload, not counting pin weight.)

[Ezbagr]

I came across this towing chart for 2013 Ram 2500`s-here is the link
http://blogs.cars.com/files/8-ram-2500-hd-towing-2013_01-08-13.pdf
According to this chart his truck can tow a trailer in the 16,500-17,000 territory. As other people have said the GAWR of the rear axle will probably be
the limiting factor. Saying that, they show the base weight of the rear axle in the 2700-2800 pound area and the GAWR of the rear tires at 6200 pounds and the GVWR at 10,000 pounds. They also show the total basee weight at 7000-7200 pounds.
So say the base comes in a little higher and when loaded with fuel and ready to go camping the 7700-7800 and say the rear axle is 250 pounds heavier.
So with the real axle weighing in at 3100 pounds he has still got 3100 pounds left for pin weight. Yes he will be over the GVWR but he will be right at his GAWR of the rear axle.
So he may well be able to tow this trailer. He will be over GVWR but most people tend to agree that this number doesn`t hold much water and that you really need to make sure you are not over the rear axle GAWR.
Now don`t get me wrong, he DOES need to go weight his truck full of fuel and ready to go to see where he is at with his weights and also come up with a educated guess on the pin weight but he might be very close to being in specs except for the GVWR.

[Cummins12V98]

2008Wildcat wrote:

quentinlindsay wrote:
I am already well aware of the towing/payload capabilities of my truck as I utilized the manufacturers specs for my truck

I don't believe you.

As I stated, I checked the tow guides, and there is no configuration of your truck that is rated for 17,000 lbs.

It think it's time for the "you said it now prove it"!

[Dayle1]

quentinlindsay wrote:
I can do the math!
I am fully confident that my configuration - properly loaded - will be more than sufficient for my truck to handle.

Then it is probably time to do the math. Actual "real world" rear axle weight vs. GAWR vs. calculated loaded pin weight is the only way to know the answer with a reasonable level of confidence. Tire capacity is the weakest link and biggest safety concern for the majority of 3/4 ton diesel rigs.

Last time I considered upgrading to a heavier fiver (with a heavier pin weight), I weighed the old setup first to verify there was sufficient tire capacity for the difference in pin weight. With many years towing fivers, we had confidence we wouldn't load a new fiver any different than previous units. But someone without an existing loaded fiver to weigh or less experience needs a bigger margin when calculating "real world" pin weight vs remaining tire capacity.

Just about everyone here has stated that carrying capacity is the biggest issue with 3/4 ton diesel rigs, and that comes from experience. Most likely you will be OK with the combo, but there is a lot of variation in dry pin weights for similar dry trailer weights. Yet so far you have failed to state dry pin weight or brand/model or asked any questions from others about their experience with dry vs. loaded pin weight. So, your math might be a case of garbage in - garbage out. We are here to help, it is your safety and everyone else's as well.

[Old-Biscuit]

quentinlindsay wrote:
That being said, I am already well aware of the towing/payload capabilities of my truck as I utilized the manufacturers I utilized the manufacturers specs for my truck along with my background in mechanical engineering to make that determination - So yes, I can do the math!

Statements like that lead me to believe you have not done the math.
Because you can not do the math properly by using mfg. towing guidelines and published specs.

You have to weigh the truck in order to get YOUR truck specs.....as in actual weight ready to camp..axle weights F/R and then you have a starting point to do the math from.
MFG. Specs.......HA!

And from your first post you are aware that you're Canadian Class 5 license doesn't cover they 5th wheel you are considering to tow as you stated ....so I would technically require a commercial class 3... however,.... which you seem to dismiss as much as the suggestions you have gotten.

So have at it........

[2008Wildcat]

quentinlindsay wrote:
I am already well aware of the towing/payload capabilities of my truck as I utilized the manufacturers specs for my truck

I don't believe you.

As I stated, I checked the tow guides, and there is no configuration of your truck that is rated for 17,000 lbs.

[Cummins12V98]

YOU ASKED THIS......"anyone see any issues towing that combo??".

Not sure if you thought I was helpful or not but YOU ASKED THE QUESTION and you received answers like them or not!

If you are going hang around here be ready for anything.

JMHO

[avvidclif1]

Licenses are different from state to state. If under 26,000 GCVW most states don't care. If you posted a state you are licensed in someone from that state could probably inform you.

[quentinlindsay]

Thank you everyone for the responses.
A few helpful, and a few condescending. You should know which one you fit.
That being said, I am already well aware of the towing/payload capabilities of my truck as I utilized the manufacturers specs for my truck along with my background in mechanical engineering to make that determination - So yes, I can do the math!
I am fully confident that my configuration - properly loaded - will be more than sufficient for my truck to handle.
I was, however, interested to see what this forum had to say as well as to see what you all had to say in regards to operating loads beyond the limits of your licenses as most people I have spoken with seemed oblivious to weight limits on classes of licenses. Dealers included.

[shadoow]

quentinlindsay wrote:
Tow rating for the truck is 17000lbs and change,

quentin,

this statement is an example of why it's important for you to educate yourself on towing and weight capacities. What a truck can pull is usually the least limiting of the considerations. The most limiting is usually what the truck can carry.
Many folks have chimed in on this thread to give their insight on towing considerations for your setup. Some are contradictory with others and that's usually the case for these 'weight/towing' threads. So that leaves it up to you to sort thru all the info and make a conclusion. Without the knowledge of towing and weight capacities you'll just go off of what sounds good or what would work with your setup based on what someone said. Not trying to be a harda** here, just tryin to emphasize the importance of someone being able to make an EDUCATED decision when it comes to towing these large trailers.

[Cummins12V98]

Find out what the GVWR of the RV is then take 25% that is what you should figure as your pin weight. Load your truck with bodies, fuel, hitch gear and hit the scales. Take your RAWR and subtract your actual rear axle weight. If the 25% number is less you are fine.

Personally I would not tow anything that long with a SRW.

YOU DO THE MATH.

[2008Wildcat]

Not sure where you got your numbers, but there is no configuration of 2500 RAM's for 2013 that can tow 17,XXX lbs, by their numbers. Even the 3500 4X4 crew cab srw with 6.7 Cummins is rated at 16,750 at the most.....

As was stated before, power and stopping is not the issue, but rawr and pin weight will be the downfall.

[outdoorlovers]

We like to be way under in regards to weight. Too many climbs and descents on mountains in this part of the country. We just purchased a 30' FW weighing close to 8,000# unloaded. Our Dodge Ram (see sig.) tows it beautifully with pretty good mileage, too. On our last set up we were close to the limit and it was not fun.