King pin weight

[DBECHEN]

Have some questions on trailer weight and pin weight. We have a 2007 GMC 2500HD short bed 4x4. Just weighed it today on a CAT scale. Was loaded ready to go with generators extra propane tanks and fuel. Here are the weights:
TV STEER AXLE - 4380
TV REAR AXLE - 3340
TOTAL TV WEIGHT - 7720
TV GCWR - 22000
TV GVWR - 9200
TV REAR GAWR - 6084
TV FRONT GAWR - 4800

TRAILER INFO: 2016 Artic Fox 27-5L

Weights with trailer attached
TV STEER AXLE - 4360
TV DRIVE AXLE - 5760
TRAILER AXLE - 10520

We have a 16K pullright super glide hitch.

Our trailer GVWR is 13400.

I guess my big question is are we overweight?
We want to tow safely and appreciate any constructive thoughts.

Thanks for helping.

[JIMNLIN]

Okay, I'll take the bait. First, my reference to GVWR was the lead in to an observation about towing, which is the subject of this thread, and has been taken out of context

My reply wasn't meant as bait but just a JFI.

[Old-Biscuit]

JRMunn wrote:
Okay, I'll take the bait. First, my reference to GVWR was the lead in to an observation about towing, which is the subject of this thread, and has been taken out of context. Second, pickup trucks have changed a lot over the years. Now, they usually have power brakes, at least front disk brakes, and better tires. So stopping is accomplished in shorter distances with less pedal effort. But physics still works. Heavy loads need more stopping distance and can affect overall handling. For me, the GVWR rating works as a guide on how much weight to carry in the bed; and, in this situation, it also happens to be an easily understood legal limit. Yes, most set-ups can probably carry more. But the chances one takes and how much one wants to extend load and stopping distance are matters of personal choice and experience, some of which is, unfortunately, learned the hard way with a ticket, a close call, a mashed up truck, and/or serious injury.

JRMunn

GVWR is NOT a legal standard......Axle/Tire Load Ratings are
GVWR is a 'warranty/Registration' Issue

[JRMunn]

Okay, I'll take the bait. First, my reference to GVWR was the lead in to an observation about towing, which is the subject of this thread, and has been taken out of context. Second, pickup trucks have changed a lot over the years. Now, they usually have power brakes, at least front disk brakes, and better tires. So stopping is accomplished in shorter distances with less pedal effort. But physics still works. Heavy loads need more stopping distance and can affect overall handling. For me, the GVWR rating works as a guide on how much weight to carry in the bed; and, in this situation, it also happens to be an easily understood legal limit. Yes, most set-ups can probably carry more. But the chances one takes and how much one wants to extend load and stopping distance are matters of personal choice and experience, some of which is, unfortunately, learned the hard way with a ticket, a close call, a mashed up truck, and/or serious injury.

JRMunn

[JIMNLIN]

I'm going to add that towing is not the only use of a pickup truck. I am always worried about stopping, and with something like gravel in the bed, the truck's brakes must stop both the load and the truck. I would be more worried about GVWR in this situation compared to towing a trailer with its own brakes that, if set properly (a big if), should help a lot.

I see this posted on rv websites a lot.
A vehicle brakes are a function of the sum of the vehicles gawrs at a minimum and in many cases like to OPs 3/4 ton can have the same brake system as its one ton srw sister truck.
Ford has 19 different gvwr for its F150. Ford isn't about to try and mfg 19 different brakes system.
Same with their F250/F350 srw line up with 14 different gvwr numbers . It would be a nitemare for Ford to mfg that many different brake packages that may change 50 lbs the next year models or the previous year models.

[centerline]

tinner12002 wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:
Thanks for giving us actual scaled axle weights. Eliminates all the guessing.
No your truck isn't overloaded.

How do you figure the trucks not overloaded...

so many things can change the weight rating, as well as the actual carrying capacity of the vehicle.
the manufactures vehicle weight rating is not the carrying capacity of the vehicle, but its only a rating based on the weight of the vehicle and the tires/air pressure, and suspention it was delivered with..

the manufacture of the axle determines the maximum load that the axle can carry, which is a few times more than is safe for the suspension to carry.

in addition, manufactures know the truck can haul more, and they know people who buy trucks to haul a load with are going to cheat the rating quite often, so they give a very conservative rating to keep it within the definition of "passenger vehicle"..

if a 3/4 or 1ton pickup was rated its true weight carrying ability, it would fall under DOT rules....
and technically, even though the rating is well under DOT requirements for a passenger vehicle, if it gets loaded beyond the manufactures rating, it does fall under DOT regulations.

in addition...
in a lot of states, any combination over 10,000lbs may fall under DOT regulation.

also, in some states, any vehicle or combination over 20,000lbs is required to cross the DOT scales

...and any combination or single vehicle over 26,000lbs always falls under DOT regulation.

if you have any doubts, look it up on DOT website, as its spelled out fairly clearly.

there is a lot about the vehicle weight ratings, regulations, requirements and laws to understand if one want to get technical, but luckily, unless one is blatantly abusing the laws/rules and advertising it, our recreational vehicles are largely ignored to keep the tourism/recreation industry of the states healthy.

[RCMAN46]

RCMAN46 wrote:
Your pin weight percentage is a little low for a 5th wheel. About 18.5 percent.

You may find the trailer will chuck and will not tow well.

Trailer weight is 12,920.

Total with trailer is 20,640 less truck 7720 gives 12,920 for trailer.

Truck axles with trailer is 10120 less truck axles without trailer 7720 gives a pin weight of 2400.

2400/12920 gives a pin weight of 18.58 percent.

[Old-Biscuit]

DBECHEN wrote:
As far as the tires go we moved up to LT285/70-17s. E-Rated Yokohama Geolander A/T. We had a leveling kit installed as well. We were thinking about adding a Banks power speedbrake to help with the downhill braking. Also considering moving to a 2018 3500, but the cost is a concern. Have read some not so hot reviews for all the 2018 makes, at least we know our TV and what has been done to it. We only have 60K miles on ours and know it is hardly broken in. Don’t want to get into a this truck vs that truck debate here.

Need to get an 'Exhaust Brake'

My truck/trailer combo weighs in at 22K Plus
Exhaust Brake and Tow/Haul ....will hold 55 mph on a 6% descent

Until then.....
Stab brakes firmly...scrub off 10 mph quickly then get OFF the brakes
Repeat as necessary. Quickly scrubbing off speed then getting off brakes doesn't over heat rotors ----no warping or heat checking

Exhaust Brake is a GREAT Tool for towing.

[KD4UPL]

While technically you're over the trucks GVWR that doesn't mean it's physically overloaded. Your not over axle weights so you should be fine. Particularly with upgraded tires. The GVWR on a class 2 truck such as yours is kept below 10,000 for legal reasons for the most part. No actual component of your truck is overloaded, except for rear springs, wheels, and tires they are all identical to a 3500 SRW from the factory.
Being over that much weight is kind of comical to TC owners. My own TC on my dually weights in at 13,100 on a truck with a 11,400 GVWR. I used to carry the camper on a 3500 SRW rated for 9,900 GVWR. The total weight on that rig was 11,150. Both trucks carried the camper for years thru thousands of trouble free miles in multiple states. I was not exceeding axle, tire, or wheel weights.

[DBECHEN]

As far as the tires go we moved up to LT285/70-17s. E-Rated Yokohama Geolander A/T. We had a leveling kit installed as well. We were thinking about adding a Banks power speedbrake to help with the downhill braking. Also considering moving to a 2018 3500, but the cost is a concern. Have read some not so hot reviews for all the 2018 makes, at least we know our TV and what has been done to it. We only have 60K miles on ours and know it is hardly broken in. Don’t want to get into a this truck vs that truck debate here.

[JRMunn]

I'm going to add that towing is not the only use of a pickup truck. I am always worried about stopping, and with something like gravel in the bed, the truck's brakes must stop both the load and the truck. I would be more worried about GVWR in this situation compared to towing a trailer with its own brakes that, if set properly (a big if), should help a lot. So what a truck actually can handle when pulling a 5th wheel trailer depends mostly on rear axel capacity, tire capacities, the combined weight rating (since the drive train should be built to take the GCVWR), and driver experience. That said, my experience tells me that one shouldn't go down long, steep grades without low gears (gas engines) or an engine brake (on diesel engines) to help keep the wheel brakes from overheating, and take corners slower when pulling a trailer. I will admit to knowing little to nothing about legal issues for the different weight ratings, which might also vary by state.

JRMunn

[DBECHEN]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. We live in the Phoenix Az and every pull is pulling up and down mountains. Pulls up just fine, coming down was a bit rough on the last trip. I don’t think I had the trailer brakes set right and warped my rotors. Expensive mistake on my part. We do not have or bags and have never hit the stops on the rear suspension. We have replaced the original tires/wheels and moved up in size and always run E-Rated tires.

[gmcsmoke]

We have a 2007 GMC 2500HD short bed 4x4

when I read this ^ regarding weights the answer is always yes

[Old-Biscuit]

TV STEER AXLE - 4380
TV REAR AXLE - 3340
TOTAL TV WEIGHT - 7720

TV GVWR - 9200
TV REAR GAWR - 6084
TV FRONT GAWR - 4800
Trailer GVWR - 13400
TV/TrailerGCWR - 22000

Trailer Pin Weight-----2400#
TRAILER AXLE - 10520


Weights with trailer attached
TV STEER AXLE - 4360......FAWR 4800 (UNDER by 440#)
TV DRIVE AXLE - 5760......RAWR 6084 (UNDER by 324#)
Trailer GVW......12920....GVWR 13400 (UNDER GVWR by 480#)
Truck/trailer ....20640...GCVWR 22000 (UNDR GCVWR by 1360#)

Truck GVWR 9200 - total weight 10120 (OVER by 920#)
Add the 400# passenger/dogs 10520 ----puts you OVER by 1320#
(Even with the 400# additional weight STILL going to be UNDER both F/R axle weight ratings AND the GCVWR for TV/Trailer


As pointed out (NUMEROUS TIMES)
MFG GVWR (and 'payload' which is based on GVWR) is a Recommended Weight -----Warranty/Registration Issues NOT --- NOT-- a Moving Violation/DOT Legality Issue
NO statues/laws pertain directly to Over MFG GVWR.
Axle/Tire Load Ratings ARE the governing issue


IMHO---your TV/Trailer set up is NOT overweight and is NOT an issue.



You have to decide for yourself.

[fj12ryder]

rhagfo wrote:
:S
Not enough coffee this morning!
Took trailer axles as total of TV, 2,400# on an AF is really a light pin!

Yeah, I figured it was just an oopsie. 🙂

[MFL]

JesLookin wrote:
We had an '03 Dodge 2500, with air bags, when we bought our '13 27-5L. The 5er felt like it was pushing the truck around. I knew we were overweight. In 2014 we bought our '14 Ram 3500. Night & day difference in the towing performance. An upgrade to a 350/3500 would be a great improvement.

I agree, a late model 3500 would be a noticeable improvement for the OP. I will say in all fairness, that if you would have moved to a 14 Ram 2500, it would have been a huge improvement, over your old 03 2500 Dodge.

It is up to the OP, concerning GVWR, but IMO, if his truck handles well, tows the trailer well, under RAWR, under GCWR, the OPs truck is capable.

I think with the GM truck, axle to cab clearance, the OP could have used a much lighter non-sliding hitch.

Jerry