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King pin weight

DBECHEN
Explorer
Explorer
Have some questions on trailer weight and pin weight. We have a 2007 GMC 2500HD short bed 4x4. Just weighed it today on a CAT scale. Was loaded ready to go with generators extra propane tanks and fuel. Here are the weights:
TV STEER AXLE - 4380
TV REAR AXLE - 3340
TOTAL TV WEIGHT - 7720
TV GCWR - 22000
TV GVWR - 9200
TV REAR GAWR - 6084
TV FRONT GAWR - 4800

TRAILER INFO: 2016 Artic Fox 27-5L

Weights with trailer attached
TV STEER AXLE - 4360
TV DRIVE AXLE - 5760
TRAILER AXLE - 10520

We have a 16K pullright super glide hitch.

Our trailer GVWR is 13400.

I guess my big question is are we overweight?
We want to tow safely and appreciate any constructive thoughts.

Thanks for helping.
2016 Artic Fox 27-5l
2 Golden Retrievers
2007 GMC 2500HD Crew Cab 4x4 Short Bed LMM
Pull Right Super Slide 16k hitch
59 REPLIES 59

JesLookin
Explorer
Explorer
We had an '03 Dodge 2500, with air bags, when we bought our '13 27-5L. The 5er felt like it was pushing the truck around. I knew we were overweight. In 2014 we bought our '14 Ram 3500. Night & day difference in the towing performance. An upgrade to a 350/3500 would be a great improvement.
2013 Arctic Fox 27-5L
2014 Ram 3500 6.7L CTD, Crew Cab

4x4ord
Explorer III
Explorer III
With the wife and golden retrievers on board you're 1320 over the truck's GVWR. I would feel comfortable towing with a set up like that. As far as I'm concerned a '07 Duramax dual wheeled truck would not be a whole lot better even though you'd be within your truck's ratings. I think where you are most likely to feel overloaded is going down long steep mountain grades. As good as your'07 Duramax is a tow vehicle it doesn't even come close to being as capable as the newer diesel one tons.
2023 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5

rhagfo
Explorer III
Explorer III
fj12ryder wrote:
rhagfo wrote:
RCMAN46 wrote:
Your pin weight percentage is a little low for a 5th wheel. About 18.5 percent.

You may find the trailer will chuck and will not tow well.

????
I see 21%
2,800# pin + 10,520# axles = 13,320 5er GVW 2,800 / 13,320 = .21
I would be happy with that pin weight percentage. 🙂
I got 18.73 percent. Hitch weight: 5760 lbs. minus 3340 lbs. equals 2420 lbs. pin weight. Add trailer weight of 10520 to pin weight equals 12940 lbs. That would give 18.73 percent.

Although it does look like the hitch may be behind the rear axle since it also took 20 lbs. off the front axle.


:S
Not enough coffee this morning!
Took trailer axles as total of TV, 2,400# on an AF is really a light pin!
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

fj12ryder
Explorer III
Explorer III
rhagfo wrote:
RCMAN46 wrote:
Your pin weight percentage is a little low for a 5th wheel. About 18.5 percent.

You may find the trailer will chuck and will not tow well.

????
I see 21%
2,800# pin + 10,520# axles = 13,320 5er GVW 2,800 / 13,320 = .21
I would be happy with that pin weight percentage. 🙂
I got 18.73 percent. Hitch weight: 5760 lbs. minus 3340 lbs. equals 2420 lbs. pin weight. Add trailer weight of 10520 to pin weight equals 12940 lbs. That would give 18.73 percent.

Although it does look like the hitch may be behind the rear axle since it also took 20 lbs. off the front axle.
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

Dr_Quick
Explorer II
Explorer II
A vehicle's GCWR is a specific weight determined by the manufacturer to be the maximum weight of a loaded tow vehicle and its attached loaded trailer.

If that is the case, the combined weight of the truck and trailer is 18,240.
Or almost 4,000 below what MFG recommends.
Dr Quick

rhagfo
Explorer III
Explorer III
RCMAN46 wrote:
Your pin weight percentage is a little low for a 5th wheel. About 18.5 percent.

You may find the trailer will chuck and will not tow well.

????
I see 21%
2,800# pin + 10,520# axles = 13,320 5er GVW 2,800 / 13,320 = .21
I would be happy with that pin weight percentage. 🙂
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

goducks10
Explorer
Explorer
So how does it pull? Stop good, handle good? Thats the important part.

RCMAN46
Explorer
Explorer
Your pin weight percentage is a little low for a 5th wheel. About 18.5 percent.

You may find the trailer will chuck and will not tow well.

NHIrish
Explorer
Explorer
Sure...you are over GVWR. By that definition, you are overweight. But I agree that the real question here is can you safely tow this...is the GVWR a real number?

My experience with my new Ford F350 4x4 diesel sclb was enlightening. The GVWR for the truck is 11500, and the yellow stickered payload capacity is somewhere around 3600. So far, so good...but I am right about there with my Heartland Bighorn and two people in the truck. At or slightly over, depending on how I am loaded. Not enough to worry about but all the hype on the capacities of the truck and this is all I get?????

So...I look to the Ford towing guide, which says that my truck configuration has a payload capacity something like 4680...just a tad higher than the 3600 stickered payload (going from memory here) for the 4x4 sclb. Now don't tell me that the Lariat leather seats took up all that capacity. The same tow guide limited fifth wheel weights to 18,000 lbs. (mine is gross rated at 15,500)only because the Ford fifth wheel hitch is the limiting factor....use a higher rated hitch and the numbers go up into the 20,000+ range.

The question becomes...what does all of this seemingly conflicting information mean. The yellow stickered GVWR tells me that I can barely tow this trailer that weighs about 14,500 loaded. The tow guide ratings published by the manufacturer tell another tale.

My opinion, based on calculations and lots of time looking at it was that the GVWR is a registration/taxation construct. Real world numbers are dictated by axle ratings and tire ratings.

Real world test; Hooked up and headed on 8000 mile trip towing through the Colorado Rockies. The payload didn't even make the rear hit the overload springs. I had added Timbren springs and they came into play at the same time as the overload springs....rough roads etc., and barely at that.

My experience confirmed what I thought.....so as others have said, I would look to the tow guide for your year and study the axle, tire and payload capacities.

I'm a pretty conservative guy...but GVWR for me is a nice goal but not a real-world limit. Anybody that says that you are risking your life by being over the GVWR just hasn't looked at the real ratings. Your tires and wheels are the real world limiting factor for you....but I would also add that you are pretty darn close on that rear axle rating and you have a 10 year old truck. I would be more comfortable in a truck with higher ratings.

All the best.
2016 Heartland Bighorn 3270RS

2010 Carriage Cameo 32-FwS
2008 Carriage Cameo
2006 Keystone Cougar
2005 Keystone Zeppelin
1999 Coachmen Catalina

2017 Ford F350 Powerstroke
Curt Q25

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock
:W

JIMNLIN
Explorer
Explorer
How do you figure the trucks not overloaded...920 lbs over the GVWR rating on the truck is overloaded!!!! You can't candy coat it and say because the OP is a few pounds under on RAWR that he's not overloaded! Anytime you exceed the GVWR your putting more stress on driveline components than they are meant to safely and reliably have. I guess some just think that GVWR is just some fictional # someone has pulled out of the air and stuck on the vehicle. Why do we even discuss weights when your going to tell people its okay to exceed posted ratings??

Bla BLa Bla...here we go again with the same old nonsense that somehow gvwr is a indicator of a overloaded vehicle.
However I'm not going to redebate you or others that pound this subject to death at least once a week. Pages and pages of gvwr or a gcwr or a yellow payload sticker number vs the gawrs/tire load capacity has been beaten to death already.
If the OP wants to know how much load his truck can safely/legally carry his area state troop post can give him those answers.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

rhagfo
Explorer III
Explorer III
DBECHEN wrote:
Have some questions on trailer weight and pin weight. We have a 2007 GMC 2500HD short bed 4x4. Just weighed it today on a CAT scale. Was loaded ready to go with generators extra propane tanks and fuel. Here are the weights:
TV STEER AXLE - 4380
TV REAR AXLE - 3340
TOTAL TV WEIGHT - 7720
TV GCWR - 22000
TV GVWR - 9200
TV REAR GAWR - 6084
TV FRONT GAWR - 4800

TRAILER INFO: 2016 Artic Fox 27-5L

Weights with trailer attached
TV STEER AXLE - 4360
TV DRIVE AXLE - 5760
TRAILER AXLE - 10520

We have a 16K pullright super glide hitch.

Our trailer GVWR is 13400.

I guess my big question is are we overweight?
We want to tow safely and appreciate any constructive thoughts.

Thanks for helping.


In short YES, you are over the manufactures GVWR, currently by 920#.
The question becomes if you are unsafe? You need to make that assessment, being over the GVWR, dosen't necessarily equate to being unsafe. You could be in legal limbo if involved in an accident being over GVWR.

That out of the way, how far have you towed this package so far and on what types of roads? How did the package handle? Did you feel the 5er was pushing you around?

As JIMNLIN pointed out your 2500 has the same axle as the 3500 SRW, and likely in that year the DRW, so breaking components is not an issue.

Your biggest danger point is your wheels and tires! if you have stock 245/75-16E's they are rated at 3,042# ea. that is what drives the 6,084# rear axle rating. If you were to go to the 265/75-16E the rating goes to 3,415# ea. for a total of 6,830# providing you a bigger safety margin.

Question do you need bags to stay level, and if so how much pressure.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

tinner12002
Explorer
Explorer
JIMNLIN wrote:
Thanks for giving us actual scaled axle weights. Eliminates all the guessing.
No your truck isn't overloaded. The truck is safely under axle/tire ratings. Your trucks rear axle is carrying all the load. Its the same AAM 11.5" rated over 10000 lbs as the one ton srw and drw trucks rear axle.


How do you figure the trucks not overloaded...920 lbs over the GVWR rating on the truck is overloaded!!!! You can't candy coat it and say because the OP is a few pounds under on RAWR that he's not overloaded! Anytime you exceed the GVWR your putting more stress on driveline components than they are meant to safely and reliably have. I guess some just think that GVWR is just some fictional # someone has pulled out of the air and stuck on the vehicle. Why do we even discuss weights when your going to tell people its okay to exceed posted ratings??
2015 Ram 3500/DRW/Aisin/auto/Max tow/4.10s,Cummins, stock Laramie Limited--Silver
Tequila Sunrise 2012 Ultra Classic Limited
2018 Raptor 428SP

JIMNLIN
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for giving us actual scaled axle weights. Eliminates all the guessing.
No your truck isn't overloaded. The truck is safely under axle/tire ratings. Your trucks rear axle is carrying all the load. Its the same AAM 11.5" rated over 10000 lbs as the one ton srw and drw trucks rear axle.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

Splashers3
Explorer
Explorer
Yes you are.....your TV has a GVWR of 9200 and your actual combined TV axle wts are over 10K....however, some folks will say you are OK because your Rear axle of 5760 is under the TV GRAWR of 6084..but you don't have a lot of margin in the rear.....

You could spend some $$ and buy wider tires and wider stronger wheels....assuming you have 245s....this will give you more margin, however it will not change your truck's official GVWR. I did this with my 2008 TV for a few years before I bought my 2017 dually.
2017 GMC 3500 Sierra Denali, C/C, D/A, DRW, w/40gal Aux tank, 18K B&W Patriot.
2019 Cedar Creek Hathaway, 34RL2 - w/Bells & Whistles and disc brakes
Traded 2009 Cedar Creek Silverback, GII, 32 WRL

DBECHEN
Explorer
Explorer
Just a quick addition. It is a 2007.5 diesel. There would also be about 400 lbs added to the TV cab, wife and 2 big Golden’s.
2016 Artic Fox 27-5l
2 Golden Retrievers
2007 GMC 2500HD Crew Cab 4x4 Short Bed LMM
Pull Right Super Slide 16k hitch