Montana vs. Arctic Fox vs. Grand Design

[Leo_Smith]

My wife and I currently own a Cougar TT that has served us well for weekend camping trips and week-long road trips. As we get closer to retirement, we are looking at fifth wheels for extended road trips. Looking ahead to our next RV (a fifth wheel) we have narrowed down our search to 3 brands: Montana, Arctic Fox, and Grand Design.

The Montana Dealer in our area has a good reputation (also the same dealer where we purchased our Cougar). The Arctic Fox dealer in our area has a stellar reputation. The Grand Design dealer in our area has a so-so reputation.

At the risk of starting the Ram/Ford/Chevy debate, I would appreciate the perspective of current owners of these three brands. Has the quality of Arctic Fox gone downhill with the passing of Ron Nash? Has the quality of Grand Design gone downhill since they have been acquired by Winnebago? Should I put the quality of the dealership ahead of the quality of the fifth wheel?

[librty02]

dpgllg wrote:

Lwiddis wrote:
“The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues.”

And then you mailed or emailed the gentleman copies of all your written issue reports, correct? To show the gentleman you weren’t lying?

I didn't mail them but I gave him all the dates times and people I talked to. His response was it's not in my system so it didn't happen.

I hate to say this but the issues you had for the most part are with the other manufacturers and not GD as they don't manufacture the frame, ac, door lock, etc. Being out of warranty any manufacturer will most likely tell you to pound salt especially if/when the problems are not with the quality build of the unit itself but with the components they used from other manufactures...does that suck well yeah we pay a lot for our rigs but we all rely on those other manufacturers products as well no matter who uses them in their product as they all use the same...whenever I'm looking at rigs I always ask the dealer when the rig was delivered to the dealers lot...being in southwest Pa myself road salt eats everything and I would never purchase a unit that was delivered from Indiana to western Pa during the winter months in fear that salt was blasted all over that thing for over 300 miles then how long it sat on that dealers lot before the rain or they washed it if they ever did before that coating on the frame has had time to cure.

[dpgllg]

Lwiddis wrote:
“The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues.”

And then you mailed or emailed the gentleman copies of all your written issue reports, correct? To show the gentleman you weren’t lying?

I didn't mail them but I gave him all the dates times and people I talked to. His response was it's not in my system so it didn't happen.

[2012Coleman]

Lwiddis wrote:
“The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues.”

And then you mailed or emailed the gentleman copies of all your written issue reports, correct? To show the gentleman you weren’t lying?

I got a big issue resolved out of warranty. The people I spoke to at GD went out of their way to help me. Sure - they all have their issues - mine has had some nickle-dime issues that were flushed out while in the warranty period and corrected. My dealer has a stupid policy concerning drop off on Saturday, so I have to take a day off. I'm sure this has caused them to get bad reviews, but since they just built a new repair facility and revamped their showroom, it doesn't seem to be bothering them. If you want to attract bees, best use honey instead of lemons.

[Lantley]

librty02 wrote:
I say pick the floorplan and style that suits you and your needs the best. Forget about what brand it is as they all have their issues and they all use the same component manufacturer's, dometic, norcold, lippert, suburban, atwood, etc, etc....The more units the manufacturer puts out the more you will hear about issues that's why keystone gets the bad wrap most of the time on forums as they are the highest selling manufacturer by far and have been for years. GD is catching up to them and have a great re-pore with "most" owners fixing things with mobile techs and or out of warranty. As for Northwood from what I have seen they need to get out of the 80's styling...to me it personally looks like I'm back in 1983 when I step into one of their units.
What I'm trying to get at is forget the dealer, forget the brand, pick what you like and what suits you most and just deal with any issue as they come. My Keystone lite model is 7 years old now and not 1 single issue at all and I have over 50k miles on her now with an avg of 150 night a year use....

You know I like Northwood Manufacturing (Arctic Fox) but I agree they are not the most current when it come to interiors and styling. But I do think they do a better job than most with structural items.

[librty02]

I say pick the floorplan and style that suits you and your needs the best. Forget about what brand it is as they all have their issues and they all use the same component manufacturer's, dometic, norcold, lippert, suburban, atwood, etc, etc....The more units the manufacturer puts out the more you will hear about issues that's why keystone gets the bad wrap most of the time on forums as they are the highest selling manufacturer by far and have been for years. GD is catching up to them and have a great re-pore with "most" owners fixing things with mobile techs and or out of warranty. As for Northwood from what I have seen they need to get out of the 80's styling...to me it personally looks like I'm back in 1983 when I step into one of their units.
What I'm trying to get at is forget the dealer, forget the brand, pick what you like and what suits you most and just deal with any issue as they come. My Keystone lite model is 7 years old now and not 1 single issue at all and I have over 50k miles on her now with an avg of 150 night a year use....

[Veebyes]

Noticed that you are on the West Coast. One of the best builders around was right in your state in Yakima.

There should be plenty of Alpenlites around, many of them in very good condition. Try to find a 2000-2005 model. In house built frame, not Lippert. 100gal FW tank. Very well made. Not as good as a Teton Homes but one of the best of the era. Way better than what is out there now new.

[Bayley]

We've owned our 2014 Arctic Fox for six years now. We have had nearly zero issues with it. On our first trip with it we had to replace the sail switch on the furnace. That is the only problem we have had which is extremely minor.
We have found the Arctic Fox to be of great quality and plan to keep it as long as it will have us.
I hear of so many nightmares people have with their units that it makes me so happy I bought the Arctic Fox.

[Leo_Smith]

Topjimmy,
We purchased our Cougar from Tacoma RV and have been pleased with the sales process, PDI and the service after the sale. Tacoma RV has opened a new enlarged service center that is larger than anything I have seen at other dealerships.

Have heard great things about Apache Camping Center, the Arctic Fox dealer. We purchased our previous trailer from Apache and were pleased with their service.

While Grand Design fifth wheels get positive reviews, the GD dealer (across I-5 from Tacoma RV) gets poor reviews.

I figure that regardless of the brand, stuff breaks and it's important to have a dealership with a good service center or have a good independent RV tech available.

[JTrac]

We've looked at Redwood, GD Solitude, Vilano and Jayco Pinnacle in our kind of interested search. We found some things we did not like and some we did. All of them seem lacking in certain areas. Kitchen, bathroom and bedroom storage and closet space are important to the wife and only one in the 34 to 37 foot range we are considering checked all the boxes. That was the Pinnacle. They made some changes with the 2020's to improve the frame, use Dexter axles and US made Goodyear Endurance tires. But, they use electric slide mechanisms instead of hydraulic and do not offer disc brakes. They do have a 2 year warranty. We are going to see a GD 344GK tomorrow to see how it compares.

An Arctic Fox 325M might be a good one to consider but the nearest dealer is 400 miles from us. I did do some calling to see about pricing. One of our absolutes is a residential fridge and NW refuses to do it. The dealer I talked to even asked it they could get one without the Norcold or whatever they use and the dealer would install a residential for us. NW said no. I think they target the boon docking crowd instead of us wimpy full hook up types.

[cummins2014]

I get a kick out of the remark fit and finish . As said they all got their issues . I have had two Montana’s , both treated me well . I have always said my next would be Arctic Fox, but was a bit disappointed looking at the new ones last year . It appears not the fifth wheel it used to be .

[topjimmy]

I have bought 3 Montana's all from Tacoma RV and all have been very good 5er's for us my Buddy bought a Solitude from RV Country accross the HWY with some minor problems and got Terrible service he will never go there again he finally called GD and they authorized him to take it to another dealer to get it fixed (not a GD dealer) and now he is happy with it but the bottom line is ALL these 5er's are pretty much all the same construction, same workers that get paid by the piece same quality etc.. etc.. buy any of them that suits your needs and do a Good P.D.I. cross your fingers:B and go with it, folks that say their brand is so much better are talking crazy talk and I have been in all of them in 8 years of fulltiming Including MANY Solitudes Arctic Fox's and of course a Boatload of Monty's ETC>>>>

[dieseltruckdriv]

ScottG wrote:
Personally, I put a LOT of importance on buying form a good dealer. That came in very handy with my AF. It had a severe issue (roof built wrong) and AF (under Nash) tried to give me a line of BS. My dealer of 40+ years wasn't having it and set them straight. Without a strong dealer, I'd have been in trouble.
Frankly, the problems I had with my TT make Daves issues look like a walk (camp?) in the park.
Probably will not ever buy another NW product.

You post about the issues with your AF very often, and I can understand why. But how many thousands of them are built with no real issues.
I bought our AF from a dealer about 600 miles away. The biggest issue I had was the lack of care that went into mounting finish pieces. I know many here would have gone back to the dealer, but it was much easier for me to mount the things straight, or put in a couple more screws. Plus it got me looking at things when our 5er was new, and it convinced me that we made the correct choice. Between the tank sizes and the frame alone, you simply can not find anything built as well as a Northwood at their price point.

I would definitely by another Northwood product especially when compared to the other choices asked about.

[ScottG]

Personally, I put a LOT of importance on buying form a good dealer. That came in very handy with my AF. It had a severe issue (roof built wrong) and AF (under Nash) tried to give me a line of BS. My dealer of 40+ years wasn't having it and set them straight. Without a strong dealer, I'd have been in trouble.
Frankly, the problems I had with my TT make Daves issues look like a walk (camp?) in the park.
Probably will not ever buy another NW product.

[Lwiddis]

“The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues.”

And then you mailed or emailed the gentleman copies of all your written issue reports, correct? To show the gentleman you weren’t lying?

[dpgllg]

We have a 2017 Grand Design Reflection 27RL. It was great for the first year and then things really took a turn south.

Replaced Dometic AC after 13 months. Yup 1 month out of Dometic Warranty.

Replaced entry lock.

Entire frame is covered in surface rust almost as if painted with nothing. I'm waiting on a response now from Lippert.

Replaced circuit board on hot water tank.

Grand Designs response on all but door lock. Contact manufacture of component its not our problem. We don't offer a warranty on rust.

The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues. I told him that Grand Design should consider better quality components and he laughed.

Grand Design DOES NOT offer the same customer service as before being acquired by Winnebago. It is dramatically worse.

We may have got a lemon I don't know but I won't be singing the praises of Grand Design.

Dave