New 5er owner!

[anaro]

Well, we did it. We finally made the leap from tt to 5er. We purchased a 2014 Palomino Sabre 34REQS. Dealer installed a Reese 16K hitch for us. Now to look into options to level the ride out as we had a decent amount of squat empty. Considering adding timbrens for this. We will weigh the rig next weekend after we finish loading it. I should have no issues being within specs as I crunched all the numbers from a worst case scenario for the 5er (gvwr w/ 25% pin weight) and used actual loaded scaled weights on the TV.

Pics are from our pdi.

[Shepherd]

Congrats on the purchase, nice rig. Yep single rear wheel 3500 will squat with that rig.:C

[john_bet]

loulou57 wrote:
I have probably what you might think a silly question. I hear the word "squat" and had no clue what you meant. From reading posts here I am guessing that it means the back end of the truck is sitting low...rather like squatting, LOL.

To me squating is where the tailgate is lower than the front bulkhead of the bed. IE: the bed is slopping to the rear of the truck,not level.

[anaro]

P Kennedy wrote:
With or without "Timbrens" the truck will settle (squat) some with a decent load on but all trucks headlights are set at the factory at legal height empty. A 3500HD should have over load leaves to compensate for the increased load on the truck but is still going to settle as load is increased. Timbrens although cheap and effective are basically a larger hollow axle stop which limits the travel of the axle transferring the spring flex to the sidewalls of the tires which increases sidewall heat. Auxiliary air springs and added overload leaves increase the weight carrying capacity of the spring set but don't limit the overall travel of the drive axle. As manufacturers are constantly increasing truck load capacities along with ride comfort the spring main leaves have been made longer and use a progressive spring rate design. However #1 task when buying a trailer is level the unattached trailer so as the frame is parallel to the road surface which means there will be the same weight exactly on both axles and 4 tires with the equalizer square to the frame as well. Measure from the road surface to the bottom of the kingpin plate and this is your proper towing height for the trailer. Your truck 5th wheel height should match this with the truck loaded also being level and square to the road. This is your ultimate towing heights for both units giving you good steering and handling which is where your headlights should be aimed. Auxiliary air springs with the overloads deleted is the only system other than true air ride that accomplishes it all. Ride quality, ride height, front axle loading, good steering and headlight aim. The only reason air springs require air when the truck is not loaded is to prevent the air spring from collapsing inward with the axle extended, too many people leave too much air in them empty making the HD truck ride rough empty.

Some very helpful info here but I have a question. Forgive me as I do the driving but being a female, I never learned much about vehicles. I understand the concept of being level but what is the equalizer you speak of? I'm not Sure DH knows this either.

[anaro]

I'm gonna measure heights tomorrow and get real loaded weights tomorrow. I think until I have all these numbers and measurements it is all guesswork. The ride home empty went well other than some chucking. I had fingertip towing conditions but do want to fix the chucking some. I will report back with real numbers. Thanks all for the info. I'm learning so keep it coming.

[Cummins12V98]

Lantley wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Why do people think they need Timbrins/air bags or anything when the truck is loaded and sits level as the pic of the op's shows?

Trucks are supposed to "squat". Op drive your combo I bet everything will be fine!

It's ridiculous to see so many TV's with the ass end sitting high going down the road with the RV nose high because someone thinks they need to be sitting ass end high like when they are running solo. Also it makes for a very rough ride!

If you are within specs you don't need to add anything.

The OP's headlights are pointing to the sky. They need to do something!
Unless the OP wants to shine their lights in the eyes of passing motorist.

Sorry his truck is setting exactly as it should when fully loaded.

My 3500 RAM with 4,500# pin weight sits level also. My headlights don't shine towards the sky and the op's don't either.

The people that have their rear sitting low to the front should get a heavier duty truck. With that condition they are overloaded. Point is trucks that "need" a bandaid are overloaded.

I assume your truck squats when loaded with your RV. Do you feel the need to raise the rear to solo height? I have seen trucks exactly like yours and mine with airbags and they are going down the highway with the bags pumped up with the rear at solo height and that causes the front of the RV to be noise high and that causes too much weight to be on the rear axle and makes for a rough ride.

[P_Kennedy]

With or without "Timbrens" the truck will settle (squat) some with a decent load on but all trucks headlights are set at the factory at legal height empty. A 3500HD should have over load leaves to compensate for the increased load on the truck but is still going to settle as load is increased. Timbrens although cheap and effective are basically a larger hollow axle stop which limits the travel of the axle transferring the spring flex to the sidewalls of the tires which increases sidewall heat. Auxiliary air springs and added overload leaves increase the weight carrying capacity of the spring set but don't limit the overall travel of the drive axle. As manufacturers are constantly increasing truck load capacities along with ride comfort the spring main leaves have been made longer and use a progressive spring rate design. However #1 task when buying a trailer is level the unattached trailer so as the frame is parallel to the road surface which means there will be the same weight exactly on both axles and 4 tires with the equalizer square to the frame as well. Measure from the road surface to the bottom of the kingpin plate and this is your proper towing height for the trailer. Your truck 5th wheel height should match this with the truck loaded also being level and square to the road. This is your ultimate towing heights for both units giving you good steering and handling which is where your headlights should be aimed. Auxiliary air springs with the overloads deleted is the only system other than true air ride that accomplishes it all. Ride quality, ride height, front axle loading, good steering and headlight aim. The only reason air springs require air when the truck is not loaded is to prevent the air spring from collapsing inward with the axle extended, too many people leave too much air in them empty making the HD truck ride rough empty.

[loulou57]

I have probably what you might think a silly question. I hear the word "squat" and had no clue what you meant. From reading posts here I am guessing that it means the back end of the truck is sitting low...rather like squatting, LOL.

[Lantley]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Why do people think they need Timbrins/air bags or anything when the truck is loaded and sits level as the pic of the op's shows?

Trucks are supposed to "squat". Op drive your combo I bet everything will be fine!

It's ridiculous to see so many TV's with the ass end sitting high going down the road with the RV nose high because someone thinks they need to be sitting ass end high like when they are running solo. Also it makes for a very rough ride!

If you are within specs you don't need to add anything.

The OP's headlights are pointing to the sky. They need to do something!
Unless the OP wants to shine their lights in the eyes of passing motorist.

[Cummins12V98]

Why do people think they need Timbrins/air bags or anything when the truck is loaded and sits level as the pic of the op's shows?

Trucks are supposed to "squat". Op drive your combo I bet everything will be fine!

It's ridiculous to see so many TV's with the ass end sitting high going down the road with the RV nose high because someone thinks they need to be sitting ass end high like when they are running solo. Also it makes for a very rough ride!

If you are within specs you don't need to add anything.

[anaro]

SuperDutyMan wrote:
Great looking rig,you made a good choice with the Sabre,they are a great unit,a lot trailer for the money,we sure love ours,go to the Forest River Forum site,we have a direct factory rep, there called Sabre Sam,you can ask him any questions,or get any tech.help you need...Enjoy!

Thanks. I have joined over there awhile ago. The folks there were very helpful to me during the selection process, especially when we were debating between the 33RETS and the 34REQS.

[SuperDutyMan]

Great looking rig,you made a good choice with the Sabre,they are a great unit,a lot trailer for the money,we sure love ours,go to the Forest River Forum site,we have a direct factory rep, there called Sabre Sam,you can ask him any questions,or get any tech.help you need...Enjoy!

[davosfam]

Beautiful rig! Happy camping!

[Rough2000]

I installed Timbrins about six years ago and haven't looked back. Several friends in our Good Sams chapter have done the same.
The thing that convinced me to get Timbrins over air bags was the air bags have to keep a minimum psi in them. As one of our forum friends that owned a delivery service said "I can't get the drivers to check the oil and water in my trucks...so why would I expect them to check air bags".

[KSadler1]

anaro wrote:

KSadler1 wrote:
Most on here are going to suggest air bags. I put the Timbrens on my truck and had no regrets. It just depends on how much $$ you want to invest. The Timbrens are an easy DIY. Took me about an hour to install them. They worked perfect for my purpose. If I took very long trips, or full-timed, I'd definitely go with air bags, but the Timbrens work very well too.....

We were wondering if DH would be able to put the timbrens on himself. What tools did you need? We are weekend campers and stay mostly in a 1-3 hrs radius with 1 or 2 longer trips per year.

You're in the same situation I was in. The installation is pretty much straight forward using just ratchets or box end wrenches. No specialty tools needed. You just take the short factory overload stops off and install the longer Timbrens in their place. Not a hard job at all. I think I might have taken the rear tires off just to have an better view. Look the Timbrens up on line and it will tell you exactly what you'll need. I think the Timbrens would be good for you. I sold my 5er years ago but left the Timbrens on. Don't even know they are there. And yes, the Timbrens will fix the squat.....

Ken

[anaro]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
NICE looking rig.......

Why all the squat when empty........really gonna squat when 5vr loaded :H

Timbrens are install and forget......only come into play (progressively) when loaded. Unloaded they aren't even there. BUT they aren't adjustable.

Air bags.....more versatile but you do have to air up/air down. Possible air leaks. Need compressor etc.

I'm not sure why the squat. Truck was purchased new in April so I know the suspension isn't worn. It is an HD with factory tow package.
Here are the cat scale numbers for the truck. The truck had a full tank of fuel and the family in it, no 5th wheel hitch on it but the reese wdh shank/ball from my old tt was in the receiver.
Front axle- 4940 lbs
Rear axle- 3240 lbs
Total truck weight 8180 lbs.
Truck GVWR- 11,600 lbs
Truck GCWR- 24,500 lbs
GRAWR- 7050 lbs
This should allow me 3420 lbs payload, 3630 lbs on the rear axle, and 16000 towing capacity (trucks max fifth wheel rating).

The specs on the 5er....
Dry pin weight (relatively useless but nonetheless) 1880 lbs
Yellow sticker weight 11,103 lbs
GVWR- 13,704 lbs


I figured a worst case scenario pin weight of 25% of 5 5er gvwr to be 3426 lbs (at my max payload). I know I won't be putting 2600 lbs in this thing but did a max weight scenario anyways. Our old tt had between 1300-1400 lbs of stuff in it at any given time. Not included in these numbers is the reese 16k hitch put in the truck bed. I think that is around 150 lbs.

I believe I ran numbers correctly but will know for sure next week when we hit the scales. But the question does still beg, why so much squat? And will timbrens fix this?