PULLING 20K OR BETTER

[prodeville]

I'm hearing that you really need a MDT or HDT to pull a fifth wheel over 20k. The MDT is expensive and a used HDT is huge. Is there anybody out there pulling that weight with a 3500/4500 or 350/450 with no problem? What about breaking?
I'm looking at A DRV, Augusta or a Continental.

[RustyJC]

That's probably true of all C&C trucks as they use basically flat frame rails from the cab back and have similar cab-to-axle dimension options to facilitate the mounting of standard service bodies by the aftermarket upfitters.

Rusty

[SoCalDesertRid1]

On pickups, the F350 and F450 use the same frame. The cab/chassis F450 uses a different frame.

[1jeep]

Guess I just learned by no surprise that the dealer didn't know what they were talking about when they told me it was a different frame. Still I feel no loss having not bought a 450 instead of the 350drw.
I do know for certain the rear ends and wheels are different as is between the ram 3500 4500.

[Rich1961]

1jeep wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Coach-man wrote:
In my travels since going full time I have seen, mostly Fords F450 & F550's towing faith wheels. I also saw a GMC 5500 set up for fifth wheel towing. I do not know their ratings, but they have to be above a 350/3500! And they appear, at least outwardly to be stout pickups! Are these rigs considered HDT/MDT's?

NC Hauler has a good point, even though we are full timers, we still have to go grocery shopping, Church, and sight seeing. So for me a pickup that I can easily park is toward the top when I am considering what to tow with!

Just for fun compare a RAM 3500 to a F350/450 side by side. You will notice the only thing on the Fore that is larger is the rear axle on the F450. Even then it only has a 9,100# RAWR.



The rAM 3500's are no doubt a 4500 with 3500 badging and a 14K rating to keep it in the class 3 no different than what the F450 does. Every single 450 I have seen pulling a DRV has had bags added. Hopefully the 17's have addressed this.

So untrue! The 2016 f450 and f350 aren't even the same frame, wheels are different and so isn't the rear end. Yes they both share the same engine/tranny and GVWR rating of 14k, but they aren't the same trucks.

According to Fords specs on the trucks, the 350 and 450 pickups use the same frame. https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2016/16_SD_Pickups_SB_Updates.pdf
Scroll down to page 20 of 25 for the frame specs.

Rich

[1jeep]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Coach-man wrote:
In my travels since going full time I have seen, mostly Fords F450 & F550's towing faith wheels. I also saw a GMC 5500 set up for fifth wheel towing. I do not know their ratings, but they have to be above a 350/3500! And they appear, at least outwardly to be stout pickups! Are these rigs considered HDT/MDT's?

NC Hauler has a good point, even though we are full timers, we still have to go grocery shopping, Church, and sight seeing. So for me a pickup that I can easily park is toward the top when I am considering what to tow with!

Just for fun compare a RAM 3500 to a F350/450 side by side. You will notice the only thing on the Fore that is larger is the rear axle on the F450. Even then it only has a 9,100# RAWR.



The rAM 3500's are no doubt a 4500 with 3500 badging and a 14K rating to keep it in the class 3 no different than what the F450 does. Every single 450 I have seen pulling a DRV has had bags added. Hopefully the 17's have addressed this.

So untrue! The 2016 f450 and f350 aren't even the same frame, wheels are different and so isn't the rear end. Yes they both share the same engine/tranny and GVWR rating of 14k, but they aren't the same trucks.

[Cummins12V98]

tinner12002 wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
2016 RAM 3500 Dually with 3:73 gear---24K
2016 RAM 3500 Dually with 4:30 gear---26K


Sure the other two in 350 Dually are similar

My 15 Ram with 4:10 gearing is rated to pull 29,600.

That is true but you will not find a 5er that has a low enough pin at that weight you can tow. That rating is in reality based on a gooseneck trailer.

My 39TKSB3 weighs 23K and the pin puts me at my RAWR. If I went to a longer DRV with 3 axles I could easily tow a heaver RV since the pin percentage usually goes down with a triple axle RV.

[Cummins12V98]

Coach-man wrote:
In my travels since going full time I have seen, mostly Fords F450 & F550's towing faith wheels. I also saw a GMC 5500 set up for fifth wheel towing. I do not know their ratings, but they have to be above a 350/3500! And they appear, at least outwardly to be stout pickups! Are these rigs considered HDT/MDT's?

NC Hauler has a good point, even though we are full timers, we still have to go grocery shopping, Church, and sight seeing. So for me a pickup that I can easily park is toward the top when I am considering what to tow with!

Just for fun compare a RAM 3500 to a F350/450 side by side. You will notice the only thing on the Fore that is larger is the rear axle on the F450. Even then it only has a 9,100# RAWR.

The rAM 3500's are no doubt a 4500 with 3500 badging and a 14K rating to keep it in the class 3 no different than what the F450 does. Every single 450 I have seen pulling a DRV has had bags added. Hopefully the 17's have addressed this.

[tinner12002]

I'm with you NC Hauler, unless someone is pulling 26-27K plus I see no reason to have the heavier duty HDT trucks unless you have the desire to set above everyone in traffic and look eye to eye with semi drivers and have tons of money to spend on BIG truck parts and repairs. All one ton trucks by the big 3 are capable of towing to their rated capacities and are less expensive to repair when repairs are needed let alone being easier to drive around town and park.

[tinner12002]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
2016 RAM 3500 Dually with 3:73 gear---24K
2016 RAM 3500 Dually with 4:30 gear---26K


Sure the other two in 350 Dually are similar

My 15 Ram with 4:10 gearing is rated to pull 29,600.

[SoCalDesertRid1]

F450/550 and Dodge 4500/5500 are considered light medium duty trucks, class 4/5, 15,000 to 20,000 GVWR. They are based on light pickup chassis.

GM C4500/5500/6500, Ford F650/750, F500/600/700/800 (gas), F5000/6000/7000/8000 (diesel), L700/800 (gas), L7000/8000/9000 (diesel), International 4600/4700/4800/4900, 4300/4400, Freightliner M2 series, various trucks by Sterling, and a host of other large chassis commercial trucks are considered medium/medium-heavy duty trucks, class 4/5/6/7, 15,000 to about 40,000 GVWR. These are based on heavy truck chassis.

Park an F450/550 or Dodge 4500/5500 next to any of the heavy chassis medium duty trucks and the difference in frame size, axle size, wheels and tires, transmission size is readily apparent. The pickup chassis trucks are dwarfed by these heavy chassis trucks.

The class 3/4/5 pickup chassis trucks have come a long way in their tow ratings in recent years, mostly due to increasingly higher output engines. Their chassis are still quite light and transmissions and axles quite small, compared to true commercial chassis trucks.

My F350 dually diesel 4x4 cab/chassis truck with 11' flatbed weighed 7500 lbs empty. My International 4800 diesel 4x4 cab/chassis truck with 12' flatbed weighs 16,000 lbs empty. That's over twice as heavy. That extra 8500 lbs is all steel and iron of the frame, axles, springs, transmission, engine, brakes, wheels, etc. The International is a massive beast compared to the F350.

[Coach-man]

In my travels since going full time I have seen, mostly Fords F450 & F550's towing faith wheels. I also saw a GMC 5500 set up for fifth wheel towing. I do not know their ratings, but they have to be above a 350/3500! And they appear, at least outwardly to be stout pickups! Are these rigs considered HDT/MDT's?

NC Hauler has a good point, even though we are full timers, we still have to go grocery shopping, Church, and sight seeing. So for me a pickup that I can easily park is toward the top when I am considering what to tow with!

[NC_Hauler]

It's oblivious you don't know me at all.. I wasn't invited personally to anything that I'm aware of. For your information. I had a stroke 11 months ago and am STILL trying to recover from that... I didn't drive for almost 5 months and I Still can't tow more than several hours without stopping and resting.. My back and neck hurt CONTINUALLY.. My left arm is very weak and I now walk with a limp... So I really wasn't up to a long haul to a rally:R.. So forgive me for missing your rally..Oh, did I mention my wife's hip replacement?.. That too has slowed us down some.. I don't "spout" anything ... If you don't want to read my post... Block me, then you don't have to read anything I " spout". I towed a 45' Jayco TH with a pin weight of 4200# and was still 900# under my trucks GVWR and . WELL UNDER RAWR. So I too know one doesn't need a semi tractor trailer rig to tow a 21K 5er. You MDT AND HDT's owners that don't want to hear what the newer 350/3500 Duallys can tow aren't the only ones that know how to do the math, though I think at times you've overlooked the common sense aspect of the towing formula.
When someone doesn't agree with you, all of you jump on the one telling there is another way to tow heavy 5ers since 2013

Again, block me, ignore me.. I won't go away from RV.net, but will leave the know it all's and their cliques on the "special forums",

Why would I go to a rally or event with people who don't want me around:h

Sorry I had the stroke, it's a life changer.. Hope you can forgive me, it messed up a WHOLE BUNCH OF PLANS we had at age 65, now age 66... I'm just trying to live and enjoy life... Not hanging out with anyone that doesn't want me around... Too much stress isn't good at this point in my life.....

[jims1]

NC Hauler wrote:

jims1 wrote:
Once you hit the Continental Coach weight range, a true MDT will be needed. The CC coaches are in the 25K+ range. Friends of our have a CC that weighs 27k with empty tanks. For most DRV's and lower brands, you can go with a $70k pickup if you want.
We went with a fully loaded 610 Volvo for $19k already converted with 443000 miles on it.

So you've now moved the weight from 23K,(OP) and went to 25-27K plus..guess you'll get to where you need to justify a semi tractor rig....We were at 23K...It only takes common sense and simple math to figure at what 5er GVW that one would need a semi to tow it...You hit it..though your example is not that of the original post..re-read..
Well, got admit I paid about 63K for my fully loaded 2016 3500...full warranty and extremely comfortable and I can pull it into my carport, take it to drive thru ATM, Micky Dee drive thru, park at grocery store in regular parking places and use it as my daily driver to and from work..I can tow with it and park in church parking lot on Sunday..I can use the bed to haul a load of wood or whatever. use it all the time for any and everything...don't need a semi tractor no matter the price WAAY to big and not very practical in every day life to most...If they're so popular, one would think you would observe piles of them towing 5er's on the highway...I haven't seen it...A select few towing heavy 5er's that can now be towed by a 350/3500 and will argue till they're blue in the face that they're right, everyone else is wrong..Main reason I rarely frequent the escapees forum..extremely rude people ganging up on those that believe the way I do in today's world..The times, they are a changing.

You sprout that mess on every forum you can....
The OP asked about what is available to pull the heavier 5'ths. The Ford and Dodge can to an extent. But you don't know what the pin weights are on the custom RV's. Most CC's if over 40ft, will have 6000lb or more pin. Many go above 7500lbs. You can put that on a dually if you want, but it's not going to last long.
Also, read the fine print, most tow ratings are based on a gooseneck flatbed trailer like they show in all the commercials.

You were invited to the recent East Coast HDT rally. You elected not to attend. So before you trash talk us anymore, maybe you should learn a little more about this option. It may not be for you, but it may be for others.

[Cummins12V98]

Chad Brooks wrote:
Rusty, are you certain on the rear axle being different on ram 3500's ? What package are you referring to?

my 385/865 has the 11.8 also but less bolts holding it.