Towing Overweight???

[Hookem2004]

I know that this has been discussed in length about towing over weight. And it's not towing and moving the trailer but the main issue is stopping. And if you get into an accident you can or will be 100% at fault being overloaded.

I am just curious how I see many 5th wheel toy haulers with triple axles being towed by a 3/4 ton truck. I know they have to over their towing limits. How do they get the dealer to sell them these trailers?

Reason I ask is the wife and I were looking at a new fiver and the dealer would sell it to use but told us that we'd have to have a truck with the proper towing capacity that we are looking at.

I have no intentions of towing out of class, but just blows me away that I see other's doing it. And I'm not talking about 1,000lbs over, it's got to be 3-4,000lbs over.

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
I know that this has been discussed in length about towing over weight. And it's not towing and moving the trailer but the main issue is stopping.

JFI..... brakes on the tow vehicle are the function of the FAWR/RAWR just as brakes on the tri axle trailer with 7k axles = 21000 lb of braking performance. Now add 6k FAWR and 6100 RAWR braking from a F250 = 12100 lbs of braking performance for a gross combined 33100 lbs of braking performance for this combo.

This is a email paste and copy (not mine) from another rv.net member that has been around since '09 and is from a CA size and weights LEO Commander; (snipped for length)

* You were requesting information pertaining to state laws limiting the gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) and/or gross combined weight rating (GCWR) for fifth wheel
and recreational vehicle owners. I have answered each of your questions
in the order asked.

Q: “Many of the owners travel over their tow vehicle GVWR and /or
GCWR. Are there any state laws against this? Or does the owner just
take the risk if they wish?”

A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.
Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.
I trust this has adequately answered your questions. Should you desire
any further information, please contact Officer Ron Leimer, of my staff,
at (916) 445-1865.
Sincerely,
S. B. DOWLING, Captain
Commander
Commercial Vehicle Section" *
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

As kofire says the trucks axle/tire load rating will be the legal load limit and in particular the trucks RAWR as its carrying most if not all of a trailer hitch load.

[joebedford]

My TH has 3 7K axles but it's 19K GVWR. I think in my case it's limited by the pin box. Go figure...

[Bedlam]

My WW FB2200 had two 5600 lb axles, but was rated for more weight because they also added in some tongue weight.

[kofire]

Calkidd wrote:

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:
I have a class C license. Trailer is heavy. Depends on what I have in it probably 12-15k give or take.

It's not what your trailer weights at that time. It's based off of your GVWR. What is your trailers GVWR?

Its a 15k GVWR. That vintage Weekend warrior had 3 6k axles under it. They were semi custom at the factory. Mine was ordered with 15k GVWR but they can be up to 18k obviously.
To be fair I technically need the recreational trailer endorsement but haven't bothered with it. Next time I'm at the dmv I'll just have it added. Last time I was there the people at the DMV couldn't even figure out what I was talking about so I just said never mind.

I am curious about that "recreational endorsement" you speak of. Care to post a link to the guidelines of this endorsement? I assume you are speaking of Ca DMV.

Is 15K what is listed on the sticker? You seem to know about these things, but if your axles are capable of 18K would that be the GVWR? Therefore non commercial A would be required.

It's however you want to order it from the factory. That's all a CHP has to go off of. There's no easy way to identify weight ratings on axles unless you are very knowledgable. All they would do is walk up, look at the sticker and that's all they have to go off of.

I've looked into ordering a new trailer a few times and most manafacturers will stamp whatever you want on it. Many of the new Genesis supreme trailers built here in California are 15k. I know the axles are much heavier but they do it to help people out in CA.
There's a few late model custom ordered WW floating around with 15k GVWR. Many of the 05 and older came 15k as well even with 6k axles. . I wouldn't hesitate to load it to 18k personally because the brakes are rated to stop that much. I think it's just easy for a company like weekend warrior to put the same axle under a bunch of different trailers no matter what the GVWR. It's cheaper to buy in bulk and there's no way to get them confused.
Another example of a company doing this is Ford. I have the same axle under my f250 as the srw f350. Yet the door sticker is different.

Weekend warrior never really made sense anyways. 2006 and later fifth wheels were mostly 16k GVWR from the factory. How do you get 16k out of three axles ? Always thought that was weird.

[Hookem2004]

I tried to paste the links as well and something is screwed up. Best to just google "CA Recreational Endorsement" or CA Non Commercial Class A License" for info.

I have a Non Commercial Class A License since my bumper pull is rated for 12,000 lbs.

The only pain is that you need to fill out a doctors form and have him sign it every two years and send it to DMV.

[Calkidd]

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:
I have a class C license. Trailer is heavy. Depends on what I have in it probably 12-15k give or take.

It's not what your trailer weights at that time. It's based off of your GVWR. What is your trailers GVWR?

Its a 15k GVWR. That vintage Weekend warrior had 3 6k axles under it. They were semi custom at the factory. Mine was ordered with 15k GVWR but they can be up to 18k obviously.
To be fair I technically need the recreational trailer endorsement but haven't bothered with it. Next time I'm at the dmv I'll just have it added. Last time I was there the people at the DMV couldn't even figure out what I was talking about so I just said never mind.

I am curious about that "recreational endorsement" you speak of. Care to post a link to the guidelines of this endorsement? I assume you are speaking of Ca DMV.

Is 15K what is listed on the sticker? You seem to know about these things, but if your axles are capable of 18K would that be the GVWR? Therefore non commercial A would be required.

[Calkidd]

kofire wrote:

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:
Yes of course. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5
I doubt most CHP even know it exists but none the less it does.

you have a smiley face in there....try the hyperlink option.

Every time I post it t puts that face in. If you care to research it just google Ca recreational trailer endorsement. It'll take you right to the dmv website.

And also I pulled the license class chart right off the DMV website. Nothing has changed as far as NCDL are concerned.

I did the research. I was hoping to help you out with that link, but it's giving me fits too.

[Calkidd]

Never mind this post....the hyperlink is not working....

[kofire]

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:
Yes of course. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5
I doubt most CHP even know it exists but none the less it does.

you have a smiley face in there....try the hyperlink option.

Every time I post it t puts that face in. If you care to research it just google Ca recreational trailer endorsement. It'll take you right to the dmv website.

And also I pulled the license class chart right off the DMV website. Nothing has changed as far as NCDL are concerned.

[Calkidd]

kofire wrote:
Yes of course. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5
I doubt most CHP even know it exists but none the less it does.

you have a smiley face in there....try the hyperlink option.

[kofire]

Yes of course

[Calkidd]

kofire wrote:

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:
I have a class C license. Trailer is heavy. Depends on what I have in it probably 12-15k give or take.

It's not what your trailer weights at that time. It's based off of your GVWR. What is your trailers GVWR?

Its a 15k GVWR. That vintage Weekend warrior had 3 6k axles under it. They were semi custom at the factory. Mine was ordered with 15k GVWR but they can be up to 18k obviously.
To be fair I technically need the recreational trailer endorsement but haven't bothered with it. Next time I'm at the dmv I'll just have it added. Last time I was there the people at the DMV couldn't even figure out what I was talking about so I just said never mind.

I am curious about that "recreational endorsement" you speak of. Care to post a link to the guidelines of this endorsement? I assume you are speaking of Ca DMV.

[kofire]

Calkidd wrote:

kofire wrote:
I have a class C license. Trailer is heavy. Depends on what I have in it probably 12-15k give or take.

It's not what your trailer weights at that time. It's based off of your GVWR. What is your trailers GVWR?

Its a 15k GVWR. That vintage Weekend warrior had 3 6k axles under it. They were semi custom at the factory. Mine was ordered with 15k GVWR but they can be up to 18k obviously.
To be fair I technically need the recreational trailer endorsement but haven't bothered with it. Next time I'm at the dmv I'll just have it added. Last time I was there the people at the DMV couldn't even figure out what I was talking about so I just said never mind.
You said it's not what it weighs at the time it's what's on the GVWR tag. So youre saying I could load this baby up to 18k and be legal? Sounds good to me.

[Calkidd]

kofire wrote:
I have a class C license. Trailer is heavy. Depends on what I have in it probably 12-15k give or take.

It's not what your trailer weights at that time. It's based off of your GVWR. What is your trailers GVWR?