Weight rating, 5er vs conventional

[Tim_Nowicki]

My other thread got a bit off track so I will start fresh with this.. Doing homework I come across different figures for towing a 5er vs conventional towing. It seems you can tow a heavier 5er vs conventional trailer towing with the same truck. in some charts there was as much as a 2-3 thousand LB difference! Anybody come across this?? Having a difficult time researching my options and now this! thanks
Tim

[JIMNLIN]

Thats also not always true either.
Besides the axle doesn't carry the load but rather the bearings in the housing and as said for the most part they can be the same.
The larger axle diameter is more about coping with twist.... not load carrying ability which is the point being made.
Buy a F250 with the heavy service or camper package and you get the same axle/suspension as the F350 srw according to Ford gurus on the many Ford diesel websites.
They also mention many are confusing the smaller axle/axle housing specs used on the F250 6.2 gasser trucks with the bigger units on the diesel equipped trucks.

Many folks are smart enough to see or find out what engineers are telling us through Q&A sessions with engineering and looking up part numbers....others ??

[goducks10]

Coach-man wrote:

Allworth wrote:
To try to provide an engineering answer to your initial question:

The weight distribution on the truck's suspension is different, therefore the allowable total trailer weight is different.

A

P.S. Believe the manufacturer's Mechanical Engineering Team. They know what they are talking about concerning a truck that they designed even though some on the forum seem to think they are smarter than the builders/designers.

Not always an engineering issue! Some states have extra fees for above 10.000 LBS! ¾ ton trucks come in just under the 10,000 lbs. mark. Done to prevent those extra charges to kick in. For the most part, drive trains identical to the 1 ton versions. Only real difference is the extra fee’s! Be aware and educate yourself, to what is available and what you can safely haul.

Not 100% true. If you read the specs in the above links you'll see that the F350 has bigger parts in the rear axle.

[Coach-man]

Allworth wrote:
To try to provide an engineering answer to your initial question:

The weight distribution on the truck's suspension is different, therefore the allowable total trailer weight is different.

A

P.S. Believe the manufacturer's Mechanical Engineering Team. They know what they are talking about concerning a truck that they designed even though some on the forum seem to think they are smarter than the builders/designers.

Not always an engineering issue! Some states have extra fees for above 10.000 LBS! ¾ ton trucks come in just under the 10,000 lbs. mark. Done to prevent those extra charges to kick in. For the most part, drive trains identical to the 1 ton versions. Only real difference is the extra fee’s! Be aware and educate yourself, to what is available and what you can safely haul.

[JIMNLIN]

Tim Nowicki wrote:
I thank everyone for their input. Lots to consider. 4X4-the links you provided have very good info. thank you

This from Ford. Gives all the mechanical weight specs.
Ford truck clicky

This from Dodge/Ram
Dodge/Ram clicky

I've never found anything for GM truck specs that goes as far back as the Ram and Ford spec sheets.
GM has a online ordering guide with specs but its just covers the last 3 years.

[wilber1]

I think BarryG20 may have it. Factory tow packages usually include a Class IV hitch which maxes out at 10,000 lbs trailer GVW without weight distribution.

[Tim_Nowicki]

I thank everyone for their input. Lots to consider. 4X4-the links you provided have very good info. thank you

[Allworth]

To try to provide an engineering answer to your initial question:

The weight distribution on the truck's suspension is different, therefore the allowable total trailer weight is different.

A

P.S. Believe the manufacturer's Mechanical Engineering Team. They know what they are talking about concerning a truck that they designed even though some on the forum seem to think they are smarter than the builders/designers.

[BarryG20]

I may have missed it reading through the posts but I think the major reason for the difference between 5th and ball type trailer ratings is the hitch on the vehicle. A ball hitch comes in different classes 1-5. A vehicle with a class 5 hitch (which they really only recently started putting on trucks previously class 4) have ratings of max weight and max tongue weight. IE a class 4 hitch has a max weight rating of 10k weight and 1k tongue weight same hitch with weight distributing hitch is 14k and 1400 lb tongue weight. A class 5 hitch ups it to 12k, 1200 tongue and weight distributing hitch up to 17k or 1700lbs tongue weight. As you can see the tongue weight in the ratings is at 10%. Most trailers at 10% hitch weight are going to be hitch light. You move that up to 15% and that 17000lb rating becomes more like a hitch weight of 2550lbs well over the hitch tongue rating. To keep the hitch weight at 15% at the rating of 1700lbs your trailer can only be 11333 lbs(even a 12% tongue to trailer weight ratio is well over the tongue weight rating of 1700lbs at 2040lbs). Where as with a 5th hitch your limiting factor is not really the hitch but by payload rating of truck, rawr or tire rating for the truck depending on what you prefer to go by not the hitch. I have towed some heavy trailers over the years and I personally would not tow a 17000 lb trailer with a ball hitch with a srw truck. Even a dually would be questionable for me too much tail wagging the dog by that point. Not saying people don't or cant but not for me.

[donn0128]

Absolutely do NOT even consider a Ford 6.0L diesel. They were junk. Ford 6.4L motors were not much better. So avoid Ford diesels in the years your looking at. They can be made better, but at what cost? Cummins I6 motors are a true 500K motor with years and years of service behind them. Besides they have 25% fewer moving parts. GM forces their diesel buyers into only one rear end configuration. See they all have their downsides. My 10 year old Dodge 6.7L is a pulling beast that also gets decent fuel economy. You need to go looking and test driving them. Pick one you feel is best for your situation and go.

[4x4ord]

Also we need clarification on how old you want to go. In you're first thread you said you wanted a "10 year old truck max". I take that to mean you want something no older than 2008.....but then you made mention of wanting something from the 2000 era? At least one of us is confused.

[lawrosa]

Heres the issue why your posts are probably getting off track...

Whats the make and model of trailer you have?

Whats your price budget for a truck??

Is there a reason your looking at old trucks in the 2000 year era?

example .. 2006 silverado 6.6 diesal you will need to find the right configuation to tow over 15000 lbs.. 3:73 rear etc.. Forget about a 2500 series..

same year dodge doesnt even list 5th wheel towing...

Ford would be your best bet for 5th wheel towing.. There are multitudes of 2006 configurations in 250's and 350's with v 10 gasser or 6.0 diesal that will tow that weight...

But again... whats you budget?????????????

[4x4ord]

Here is a Link to a 2008 GMC brochure that gives tow ratings.

Here is a Link to the 2011 Ford.....I wouldn't buy an older Ford.

Here is a Link to the 2013 Ram towing specs.

[4x4ord]

Tim Nowicki wrote:
Yup, I do have the trailer already. Been on the net looking at tow ratings that seem to be conflicting and all over the chart. So back to the drawing board. Not looking to buy new so that makes it a little more difficult.

So you've got a 15000 lb fifth wheel. So you want to consider the tow ratings for fifth wheel towing. You will find the newer (within the last 10 years) 3/4 ton trucks to be rated as able to tow about 15000 lbs. The problem is that 3/4 ton trucks won't have enough pay load to carry the pin weight of a 15000 lb 5ver. You should find out what the pin weight of your 5ver is although if you are wanting a dually it doesn't really matter what the pin weight of the trailer is....with a dually you're going to be covered. The newer (within the last 10 years) 1 ton SRW trucks will likely have adequate carrying capacity to handle most 15000 lb RVs.

[Mickeyfan0805]

I'm not mechanically inclined enough to explain the structural reasons involved, but I've always looked at it in the same manner as carrying weight myself. If I have a well structured hiking pack that distributes weight across my torso and I load it with 50 pounds I will manage that weight a lot differently than if you hand me a 50 lb box that I have to carry. The nature of the load significantly impacts the effect it has on the one carrying it.

Transfer that same logic to a truck and a load mounted on the rear hitch will have a much different effect than one set between the axles on the center of the bed. Strong, stability, suspension - it will all respond better to the more centralized load - allowing the truck to carry more.