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What happens if you plug a 50 Amp RV into 22V welder plug

jeepman71
Explorer
Explorer
I am currious, if my rv were a 50amp system and I plug into a 220V welder or dryer outlet what will I find? What different circuits or equipment would likely be damaged?

Let's assume that this rv is a very late model like a 2012.

I don't have to worry because mine is only a 30amp.
86 REPLIES 86

RoyB
Explorer II
Explorer II
Here is pretty good discussion of why the NEUTRAL WHITE CABLE is so important in a split phase 240VAC single phase circuit...

LOOSE NEUTRAL CONNECTIONS

good readings
Roy Ken
My Posts are IMHO based on my experiences - Words in CAPS does not mean I am shouting
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Dyngbld
Explorer
Explorer
qtla9111 wrote:
Four pages, and to someone who knows nothing about electricity, this would confuse the heck out of them. What a mess.


If you know nothing about electricity I would just call an electrician and have them set it up for you. Install the proper breakers, outlets, and test it for you. It really is not that difficult, but with electricity and expensive equipment I would be extra careful. (and I know what I am doing)

A couple hundred bucks to an electrician, might save you thousands.

I am going to run a 50/30/15 amp line out to my camper. I only need a 15 amp outlet for the battery charger, (and fridge if needed) I am only running the line once so I will go ahead a run 50 amps. The cost is a lot higher, but I will be saving time and effort of doing the job twice.

As for the welder plug working with your rig, I would have to look at it, and put a meter on it be for I plugged my rig into it.
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RoyB
Explorer II
Explorer II
qtla9111 - if that was responding to what I just posted you are probably right... I should get out of the mix I guess... I might want to wire in a sub-panel myself someday and right now I don't know what to do with the "GREEN" Earth Ground wires. Always been under the assumption you should only have one earth ground and in this case that would be at the meter location. We just had a lightning strike near miss here a couple weeks back so I got to watch the Power Company troubleshoot my NEUTRAL and EARTH GROUND connections. They found a LOOSE NEUTRAL GROUND connections and fixed that - all is normal again now in my house 120VAC circuits. My house is wired just like the top diagram in my other post...

INteresting at the least...

Roy Ken
My Posts are IMHO based on my experiences - Words in CAPS does not mean I am shouting
Roy - Carolyn
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Virgil_Diesel
Explorer
Explorer
tvman44 wrote:
If it is a 4 wire receptacle with a ground, neutral & 2 hots it will work fine. If it is only 3 wire like most welding machines 2 hots & a ground it could be disastrous. ๐Ÿ˜ž

X2
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qtla9111
Nomad
Nomad
Four pages, and to someone who knows nothing about electricity, this would confuse the heck out of them. What a mess.
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RoyB
Explorer II
Explorer II
Maybe this helps....

This is how a typical house is wired with a split phase (aka single phase) 3-wire 120V/240V service wiring.



Most residential and light commercial homes in U.S. have a single-phase 3-wire 120V/240V service. It consists of two inverted relative to each other lines and grounded neutral. Connecting an electric load between any line and the neutral yields 120 volts AC. Connecting between both lines yields 240 volts AC. The two 120V lines are derived from a step-down distribution transformer, which is usually mounted on a pole. Its secondary winding has a grounded center tap connected to neutral wire. The two end terminals are electrically โ€œhotโ€ with respect to the neutral. Note that both lines are derived from the same utility phase. Thatโ€™s why such configuration is often called โ€œsplit phaseโ€. The three conductors go from the pole to your electric meter. From the meter they run to the panel containing the main service disconnect. From there the lines go to magnetic circuit breakers that protect individual branches. The branch breakers can be mounted in a separate distribution panel or can be incorporated into the main panel.

(This is from google search source)

Maybe someone can take this and explain how to use the 240VAC WELDER connection to be used for a RV50 AMP four wire connection where the RV 50AMP Shore Power cable can be plugged into this house system shown....

What confuses me is when installing the sub panel as shown below is where the "GREEN" Earth ground goes. Notice Earth ground is connected directly to the main panel shown above NEUTRAL Connection.. The Earth ground and the NEUTRAL are separated in the sub panel connections.


Roy Ken
My Posts are IMHO based on my experiences - Words in CAPS does not mean I am shouting
Roy - Carolyn
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720Deere
Explorer
Explorer
AniJet wrote:
LostinAZ wrote:
What isn't being mentioned when we discuss two 110 V legs is they have to be out of phase to create 220V service. My understanding is that the 50 Amp service we hook into at RV Resort/Park pedestals, the two 110V 50 amp legs are not out of phase and therefore 220V is never present inside the RV.


Not so. If that was the case, the neutral would carry 100 amps if you were able to use all 50 amps on each hot leg. They must be opposite phase. If done correctly, when the load is the same on each hot leg the neutral carries nothing. The neutral only carries the difference between the hot legs. You can plug into any properly wired 220vac outlet as long as the plug and receptacle match (or you have the properly wired adapters).

It's all done in the RV. Each load is wired across only one hot leg and the neutral so the load will only see 110vac. A load would need to be wired across both hot legs to see 220vac.

Edit: It must have a neutral and ground. Any receptacle with no neutral (like a welder plug) should never be used for a RV.


Dumb question.....what if you ran a separate neutral back to the panel for your adapter?
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RoyB
Explorer II
Explorer II
This is typical camp ground pedestal connections for both 50A and 30A RV receptacles.

This is what is required to operate the 50A and the 30A RV Trailers connections.


These are the ways to measure the receptacles to insure it is ok to use for the Rv trailers....

RV 50AMP service measurements


RV 15A/20A/30AMP service measurements


Just my thoughts
Roy Ken
My Posts are IMHO based on my experiences - Words in CAPS does not mean I am shouting
Roy - Carolyn
RETIRED DOAF/DON/DOD/CONTR RADIO TECH (42yrs)
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Sandy___Shirley
Explorer
Explorer
Here is the picture you want:



Your RV breaker panel is just like your house panel. You have two hot sides, the sides of the outlet plug, and a neutral in the middle. Nothing in the RV is connected to both hot leads, so the 240 v you see in the top left corner should never happens. You just have to double check to make sure that either side to the bottom center is only 120v. If you wire it wrong and one of those 120 v meters is reading 240 v, you will blow up anything you connect to it.

Each side is alternating 120 v current, from plus 120 to minus 120. When you compare that to the center neutral at 0 volts, the difference between the two wires is just that 120 volts plus or minus.

The key to 240 volts is that the two sides are 180 degrees out of phase. When one side is at plus 120 volts the other side is at minus 120 volts, so at their peaks, the differences between the two voltages is 240 volts. You are comparing the two sides to each other, not to the neutral or ground.
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ChadHinton
Explorer
Explorer
This is why I installed a Surge Guard (http://trci.net/products/surge-guard/transfer-switches/50a-plus-hardwire-rvc) on my RV. I've seen a few pedestals that didn't look quite right and read too many posts about folks finding out the hard way that something was wired wrong.
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Sandy___Shirley
Explorer
Explorer
There are only 3 wires in the ground, the covering is not metal


Either way, the point is to double check any new connection for your RV. A mistake can be very costly.
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time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Your pool filter pump does have two hot and a ground.

The thread drifted away from branch circuits and asked about the main utility supply. Connection from the utility transformer is from both ends of the low voltage (240v) coil (hots) and the transformer center tap (neutral).

Sandy___Shirley
Explorer
Explorer
smkettner wrote:
I am talking about the direct connection from main box to the utility transformer as asked.
You will see three wires come into your main box. Two hot and the neutral.

Earth ground is created at the main panel and bonded to neutral.

Utility transformer may have its own earth ground but I have no real idea.

Iโ€™m not sure that โ€œdirect connectโ€ means that much. My pool filter pump has a โ€œdirect connectโ€ from our panel box to the pump. It is only 3 wires and two are hot to give it 220 volts! I have a hard time believing that the third wire to a pump connected to the swimming pool isnโ€™t ground!

Look, do what you want, it is your RV, just make sure you use a volt meter to check the voltages from each hot leg to neutral. If you donโ€™t know what I mean by that, call an electrician!
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Atom_Ant
Explorer
Explorer
The house entry is 2 hot and 1 neutral - no ground. Earth ground is created at the house panel and was never really around before the 70s. If you bought a new range or dryer, the neutral was just grounded to the chassis.
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wittmeba
Explorer
Explorer
smkettner wrote:
I am talking about the direct connection from main box to the utility transformer as asked.
You will see three wires come into your main box. Two hot and the neutral.

Earth ground is created at the main panel and bonded to neutral.

Utility transformer may have its own earth ground but I have no real idea.

Isnt it suppose to be two hot and 1 gnd?
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