Why tow level ??? -- Is it important -- How to acheive

[TenOC]

I am not talking about when the TV is nose high and the front wheels are floating off the pavement.

In a few weeks, I am going to move from a TT to a 5er. With a TT it is a simple mater to adjust the hitch ball to tow level. With a 5er I understand the need to maintain 6 inches clearances between the TV bed rails and the 5er so the trailer does not hit the TV bed rails. I understand that all 5er hitches have a way to adjust the hitch height.

The only way I know to adjust a nose-high 5er (and maintain the 6" bed rail clearing) is to adjust (raise) the suspension (flip axles etc) of the 5er or lower the TV suspension.

I have not done the math because it depends on the length and weight of the 5er, but a quick estimate is that by towing nose-high by a foot only transfers about 100 lbs from the pin to the wheels.

So inquiring minds want to know how important is towing lever?. . . :h. . . . What am I overlooking?

[mekkerl]

laknox wrote:

mekkerl wrote:

PhoneDude -- where did you get your kit?
And, did you do the work yourself? Was it pretty straight forward?
I assume the kit comes with longer u-bolts and everything needed?
I'm sitting about two inches high...and only have about 2-inches of bed rail clearance.

2" bed clearance!? How do you even tow down the road without rubbing? :h If true, you =really= need to raise the FW; likely the only way to get that kind of lift is will a full-on subframe. 4" =minimum= to be sure.

Lyle

I'm probably about 4" from actual truck rails...but my bed cover has a rise of about an inch or so. I measure from that. So probably about 2.5-3.5 inches usually when towing overall. I haven't had any issue towing roads etc...only twice when backing into sites that were either much higher or lower than the road. Which then I had to unhook and raise the hitch. Not fun to do that, hence why I want to raise the camper a few inches.

[laknox]

mekkerl wrote:

PhoneDude 8289 wrote:
When I changed trucks to a 2014 Ram 2500 the 5r was 4.5" nose high, chucking drove me nuts. Pin box did not have any adjustment and the hitch was all the way down.
Bought a kit from Dexter for the torsion axels that raised the unit at the axels 2-5/8", that brought the RV very close to level. It's 1/4" to 1/2" nose high now, a little more pin weight and it would be dead level. Bed rail clearance is 5.5". Chucking almost gone except for the expansion joints on bridges and some of those concrete interstates.

PhoneDude -- where did you get your kit?
And, did you do the work yourself? Was it pretty straight forward?
I assume the kit comes with longer u-bolts and everything needed?
I'm sitting about two inches high...and only have about 2-inches of bed rail clearance.

2" bed clearance!? How do you even tow down the road without rubbing? :h If true, you =really= need to raise the FW; likely the only way to get that kind of lift is will a full-on subframe. 4" =minimum= to be sure.

Lyle

[laknox]

TenOC wrote:

alboy wrote:
I ran a 15 k /36 ft fiver for thousands of miles 5/6 inches nose high,pulled good, but right rear tire always ran hot,levelled it out same tire ran cool like the others.

What action did you take to leveled the trailer?? As I have wrote before I am not sure how to level the trailer and maintain the 6" bedrail clearance without changing the truck or trailer suspension.

AFAIK, that's about all you can do. =Some= trucks have lift blocks in the suspension that can be removed to gain a couple inches, but you'd have to research that. If your FW doesn't have the springs over the axles, it's not a huge deal to do it, or have it done. It's also a great time to add a full wet bolt kit. This includes greaseable shackle bolts, heavier shackles and new bronze bushings to replace the cheap plastic ones installed at the factory. Another option to add would be a flexible equalizer. Look at Cummins' post, where he scaled 1400 lbs' difference between the axles. That is =huge=, as well as very surprising, and has nothing to do with loading. Just the geometry of his FW's suspension.

One other thing that people haven't mentioned is that, if you have a propane fridge, and you run with it on, being that far out of level can destroy the cooling system. They must be run within a couple degrees of level or you risk damaging it.

Lyle

[Cummins12V98]

Gib3633 wrote:
Cummins12v98:
It would be interesting to see a picture how that Ram is sitting after the 3 inch riser was added to the Mobile Suite.
Mor/ride measured my Mobile suite and added a 2 inch riser and made a huge difference in the ride. I wish they would have taken another moment and I'm sure it would have gotten the 3 inch like your trailer and still 13ft 6 in

With the 3" riser added I am at 13' 5".

Here is my scale weight from the WA State Dot scales.The individual RV axle weights don't exactly add up to the combined weight because I weighed each axle separately at the edge of the pad and is slightly less accurate. Point is you can see my axle weights are VERY close now with the 3" risers added. Prior the rear axle weighed 1,400# more than the front. Was towing MC trailer.

Truck sits no different since I have the Factory Rear Air ride that maintains the set height up to and possibly beyond the 9,750# rear axle rating.

First pic is with risers, second is without. First pic the blocks are there for stability when not unhooking overnight. I just put enough pressure to stabilize.

[mekkerl]

PhoneDude 8289 wrote:
When I changed trucks to a 2014 Ram 2500 the 5r was 4.5" nose high, chucking drove me nuts. Pin box did not have any adjustment and the hitch was all the way down.
Bought a kit from Dexter for the torsion axels that raised the unit at the axels 2-5/8", that brought the RV very close to level. It's 1/4" to 1/2" nose high now, a little more pin weight and it would be dead level. Bed rail clearance is 5.5". Chucking almost gone except for the expansion joints on bridges and some of those concrete interstates.

PhoneDude -- where did you get your kit?
And, did you do the work yourself? Was it pretty straight forward?
I assume the kit comes with longer u-bolts and everything needed?
I'm sitting about two inches high...and only have about 2-inches of bed rail clearance.

[Gib3633]

Cummins12v98:
It would be interesting to see a picture how that Ram is sitting after the 3 inch riser was added to the Mobile Suite.
Mor/ride measured my Mobile suite and added a 2 inch riser and made a huge difference in the ride. I wish they would have taken another moment and I'm sure it would have gotten the 3 inch like your trailer and still 13ft 6 in

[PhoneDude_8289]

When I changed trucks to a 2014 Ram 2500 the 5r was 4.5" nose high, chucking drove me nuts. Pin box did not have any adjustment and the hitch was all the way down.
Bought a kit from Dexter for the torsion axels that raised the unit at the axels 2-5/8", that brought the RV very close to level. It's 1/4" to 1/2" nose high now, a little more pin weight and it would be dead level. Bed rail clearance is 5.5". Chucking almost gone except for the expansion joints on bridges and some of those concrete interstates.

[JIMNLIN]

There are reasons axle makers and trailer mfg don't have or come OEM or have a option for leaf spring suspension blocks for heavy trailers. I've yet to find a professional big rig trailer shop that will add leaf spring suspension blocks without the owner signing a liability waver.

Trailer suspensions are subjected to much more side stress (twisting) issues than our tow vehicles......apples vs oranges.

I've had two of my rv trailers raised. One with longer adjustable 3/8" HRS side plate spring hangers. The shop charged my 230 bucks for material and labor.
I had a another shop fab and install a 3" sub frame for the 5er in sig. Total bill along with new suspension bushings and pins was 622 bucks.

[tinner12002]

TenOC wrote:

alboy wrote:
I ran a 15 k /36 ft fiver for thousands of miles 5/6 inches nose high,pulled good, but right rear tire always ran hot,levelled it out same tire ran cool like the others.

What action did you take to leveled the trailer?? As I have wrote before I am not sure how to level the trailer and maintain the 6" bedrail clearance without changing the truck or trailer suspension.

I used 2" spacer blocks on mine with heavier/thicker u-bolts and have had no issues what so ever. Its still not perfectly level but pretty close as I haul two motorcycles in it which puts a little more weight on the rear. I've raised two RVs this way and had no issues with either. There are other ways to raise them by spending thousands of dollars and building a sub frame with a quality certified welder and rehanging the axles but my way works for me. I think from talking to others on here that they have used the blocks also with great results.

[tinner12002]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
You would never know the rear RV axle has 1,400# more scale weight than the front axle by this pic. It really does matter to tow as level as possible.

Yes but you didn't mention that your DRV also uses independent suspension as yours has which doesn't have an equalizer to help distribute the weight between both axles.

[Cummins12V98]

TenOC wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
You would never know the rear RV axle has 1,400# more scale weight than the front axle by this pic. It really does matter to tow as level as possible.

I do not know, but may I suggest the the difference in the load of the two axles is due to loading not levelness. Have you check the scales with different degree of level??

I am not "bad mouthing" you, I am looking for information from someone that has weighed the trailer under different conditions. The trailer/truck combination I am looking to purchase will be difficult to get level and maintain the 6" bed rail clearance.

All I can say is I weighed it at the DOT Scales in WA. All surfaces are level. I did have 3" MORryde risers added after that pic. Here is the scale ticket from the MobileSuites Factory.

I will weigh separately in a few days. I am guessing they did not have the RV level front to back.

Looks like driver side is 445# heavier and front axle is 705# heavier.

[Old-Biscuit]

Leveling a 5vr.....

1) Lower hitch and/or raise pin box.......IF you can maintain bed rail clearance (6" min)

2) 'Flip the axles'------don't really flip them but relocate leaf spring pack from UNDER the axles to OVER the axles (new spring perches/U bolts) roughly a 4" change in height.

3) Leaf springs already on top of axles and/or more height needed.....subframe lift
Cut leaf spring shackles off..weld a subframe in...weld shackles back on'
Height of needed lift determines subframe (4", 6" etc)
Lateral bracing side to side added shackle mount to shackle mount

4) LCI has a 'Correct Track' Kit....alignment kit that results in a 2" lift when installed

5) Shackle mounts....some have adjustment holes. Moving leaf springs to 'lower' holes 'raises' trailer....roughly 2" each hole


Level towing a 5vr.......YES for all the reasons mentioned.
*Weight transfer to 5vrs rear tires/axles--even with changes in how you load
*Chucking issues due to 'light pin weight'
*Smoother towing...better handling
*Better braking....all of 5vrs tires 'contact' patch similar
*Overnighters still hitched.....level allows for fridge operation w/o concerns



Of course.....some don't think necessary and ignore reasons to set up for level when towing

[MFL]

Noticed a couple in campgound with a smallish Palomino FW, hooked to a newish Ram 2500. The FW looked like a rocket launcher! It was the worst case nose-high that I've seen. They were getting ready to pull out, when I noticed 2 little wheels fastened under the rear bumper. Yup, those little wheels were almost touching on level pavement.

Jerry

[Dennis12]

Get it level and watch the difference in the handling. I have passed some that i wonder how they drive it and don't know better