Wife fell in love with 5th wheel...I have an F150

[DwnSth]

Have been looking for a bit larger TT, something with a rear living or rear entertainment, also, desperately need an 80" bed!

Ruled out Outback TT's even though we really liked those, hitch weights push 900lbs dry F150 hitch maxes out at 1150.

Looking at TT's yesterday and we saw an Open Range light 5th wheel. Wife almost adamant about looking seriously at these. Even touting the better towing and less length behind truck! (we split driving) Open Range even allows goose neck so I can have a flip down ball in bed.

So we have truck in sig. Payload is 2090 so I know there isn't much leeway (Even though Ford accounts for 150lb driver and full tank). The Open Ranges we looked at were between 1100 and 1250 on the pin. 5th wheels are very new to us so unlike a TT I don't know all the ins and outs of pin weights, loads etc. Could write a book on TT weights and load though.

Probably not going to give up truck and go to something larger. It's extremely nice as a daily driver and tows like a dream. Is it within reason to tow a light 5th wheel with my truck?

[AUWing]

You said she fell in love and we all know love has no Boundaries - take the leap and upgrade away, truck n trailer

[Old-Biscuit]

Sammie1 wrote:
My husband thinks from what he has read that we don't need a dually to pull a 40 ft 5th wheel. He says an f350 should do the job. We will want to be able to tow at least 18000 lbs. everyone has a different opinion, so who do we listen too? What happens if we don't get a dually. Keep in mind this is our first big truck and 5th wheel as we are new to this.

Husband who has no experience has made up his mind......facts won't matter.

Happy shopping.

[soundslikefun]

Saw a speaker at last weekends Minneapolis RV show mention something around 40% of towed RVs are overweight for their tow vehicle. If that is true I am frightened to be on the road with all these vehicles unable to stop.

[rhagfo]

Sammie1 wrote:
My husband thinks from what he has read that we don't need a dually to pull a 40 ft 5th wheel. He says an f350 should do the job. We will want to be able to tow at least 18000 lbs. everyone has a different opinion, so who do we listen too? What happens if we don't get a dually. Keep in mind this is our first big truck and 5th wheel as we are new to this.

Well an18,000# 5er will have about 3,600# of pin or as much as 4,500# I think a dually is the correct choice!

[Sammie1]

My husband thinks from what he has read that we don't need a dually to pull a 40 ft 5th wheel. He says an f350 should do the job. We will want to be able to tow at least 18000 lbs. everyone has a different opinion, so who do we listen too? What happens if we don't get a dually. Keep in mind this is our first big truck and 5th wheel as we are new to this.

[Old-Biscuit]

Dry pin weights, dry trailer weights, truck payload numbers & max tow rating are all numbers that don't really have much meaning.
No one tows dry, max towing is a marketing tool and payload does not account for passengers and stuff.....

Go weigh your truck camp ready (you, ALL passengers, any stuff in cab, fuel and any stuff in bed-----add 200# for hitch)
*Trucks actual total weight vs trucks GVWR---------actual available total weight that can be added to truck before reaching GVWR
*Trucks actual Rear axle weight vs RAWR--------actual available 'pin weight' that can be carried by rear axle before reaching RAWR
*Trucks actual rear axle weight vs Rear Tires MAX Load @ MAX PSI Rating-----actual available 'pin weight' that can be carried by rear tires before max capacity reached

Now you have real numbers to start with.

Then look at trailers GVWR. Use 15%-25% of trailers GVWR to guesstimate 'wet' pin weight of a trailer. Until purchased and loaded then weighed one can only guesstimate.
The 25% of GVWR will be the heaviest number.......is your actual available pin weight (payload of truck) number able to carried the guesstimated 'wet' pin weight within trucks GVWR, RAWR & Rear Tire Load Capacity.
IF YES.......got yourself a new 5th wheel
IF NO....how much over? Does a 20% @GVWR number fit? (You don't have to load the trailer up to the gills and max trailer weight out)

Good Luck!---------GO Weigh!

[rhagfo]

goducks10 wrote:
Just throwing out an example of a similar situation. Apples to apples we have 2176 CCC on our Ram 2500, 86lbs more than you. I'm using a B&W Patriot hitch. We have apr 1500lbs in our 5th. Dry stickerd pin is 1385lbs, we are apr 1800lbs loaded on pin. If you load less than us, and your pin is 150lbs+ lighter to start with, then theoretically you could be around 1600lbs+/- on the pin. That gives you 490lbs extra. Doable if you're prudent IMO. I'm not an advocate of 5'ers and 1/2 tons. It's always a give and take thing. 3/4 tons and up have more leeway. But, after towing both a TT and 5'er the 5'er handles better hands down. That is one factor that makes towing a 5'er near the limit with a 1/2 ton acceptable IMO. Tow the same load with a 33-35' TT and it's a different story. I'd go for it.

GoDucks, very good example and advice.

The only other thing I would recommend to the OP, is go have your truck weighed. Then you will find the true payload left 8,200 - scaled weight = Real payload. get weights for each axle, so you have a good idea as to how much is left on the rear axle.

[dballentine]

DwnSth wrote:
...

Another brand we had looked at before we even had the F150 was Crusader. Their pin weights are in range but wow, their weights don't make sense. For example, the 290RLT has a pin weight of 1200 and a dry weight of 8554, is this even possible. On top of that, the CCC is 3039 (where would you load that much weight?). So do they just throw pin weights out there? how can you figure a pin weight if the manufacturer is not being realistic with their numbers. Can a dealer obtain a real pin weight? (I have a tongue scale for TT's but no way it would work for a pin.

Sure it's possible. 1200/8854 = 14%, which is just below the "normal" range of 15-25% pin weight. For any given design, more or less weight can be put on the pin by moving the axle location backwards or forwards. Think of the trailer as a teeter-totter with unequal arms. If the pivot point (the axles) is exactly at the center of mass, there would be no weight on the pin. Move the pivot point back (away from the pin), and more weight will be placed on the pin.

Since most FW have both a bedroom and a basement in the nose, having a slightly low dry pin weight is probably a good thing. A lot of the weight (WAG: 25-50%) you load into the trailer will be carried by the pin, and so the loaded pin % will increase into the typical 15-25% range.

As to the CCC, I don't think they worry about where it goes. I think it's determined by the design limits/ratings for the frame, axles, and tires.

[DwnSth]

Thanks for all the replies so far. Very helpful info and I like the site that allows you to calculate potential weights. If we can honestly start at a dry pin weight of 1200 or 1250 I think we will be clean on weight. I'm relatively confident from reading other people towing at higher end of range for the F150 with the EB and HD package that it does very well. My wish is that manufactures had to post an actual weighted finished product (not the yellow sticker calculated weight (I actually programmed that for one manufacturer) including hitch or pin weight. Aerolight does this for the overall weight, but not hitch, which in some cases is the limiting factor.

Another brand we had looked at before we even had the F150 was Crusader. Their pin weights are in range but wow, their weights don't make sense. For example, the 290RLT has a pin weight of 1200 and a dry weight of 8554, is this even possible. On top of that, the CCC is 3039 (where would you load that much weight?). So do they just throw pin weights out there? how can you figure a pin weight if the manufacturer is not being realistic with their numbers. Can a dealer obtain a real pin weight? (I have a tongue scale for TT's but no way it would work for a pin.

[Sandia_Man]

First of all, I'm no weight police, whatever people choose to tow is their business and if it works for them that's good enough for me. Looking at the Open Range website under their light fifth wheel section shows most of units with GVWRs of 10K or so, listed dry pin weights are understated, not even 20% of their listed UVW. You have a very capable TV, but real world loaded for travel pin weights will be much heavier than listed by the manufacturer leaving very little available payload. Does that mean it's a no go, once again it will ultimately be your call. We all know your TV can pull it, hard to say what level of towing comfort to expect since this 5er is significantly heavier than your current TT. Some TVs perform well near or just over towing capacities while other TVs struggle immensely anywhere near stated max capacities. There's no clear cut answer, but if these 5ers are truly half-ton towable as stated by the manufacturer, you certainly have the half-ton that's capable of doing so. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[goducks10]

Just throwing out an example of a similar situation. Apples to apples we have 2176 CCC on our Ram 2500, 86lbs more than you. I'm using a B&W Patriot hitch. We have apr 1500lbs in our 5th. Dry stickerd pin is 1385lbs, we are apr 1800lbs loaded on pin. If you load less than us, and your pin is 150lbs+ lighter to start with, then theoretically you could be around 1600lbs+/- on the pin. That gives you 490lbs extra. Doable if you're prudent IMO. I'm not an advocate of 5'ers and 1/2 tons. It's always a give and take thing. 3/4 tons and up have more leeway. But, after towing both a TT and 5'er the 5'er handles better hands down. That is one factor that makes towing a 5'er near the limit with a 1/2 ton acceptable IMO. Tow the same load with a 33-35' TT and it's a different story. I'd go for it.

[wandering1]

BB_TX wrote:
You gotta have a dually to pull a 5er don't you know. It will be overloaded and highly unstable if you don't. :E

Actually, yes, with the increased payload/tow ratings of the new F150/2500 trucks and the new lighter weight 5ers it is certainly within reason to do so. Just check your numbers carefully to make sure you are within ratings.

SRW is just as stable as a DRW and will tow just as heavy a 5er as a DRW. DRW is needed to haul more weight over the rear axle than a SRW will haul.

[MFL]

The truck in OPs sig, appears to be a max tow, and HD option. If it is the 7 bolt 4800# axle it should be enough truck to handle the 1250 dry pin, plus the extra 300+, for loaded pin of 1550, AND 200# HITCH.

The payload #s are close, the RAWR should be fine, if 4800 axle. If rear axle is 6 bolt 4050#, it will be close there too.

The right late model F150 is capable of carrying a FW, as we all know, many folks on this forum are happy doing so.

Jerry

[shadows4]

I did a search and found several threads about F150's towing fifth wheels. Here is one. I have been considering trading the diesel in for a HD F150. Like I said considering, wife isn't to keen on the idea. Good luck, John

[oweninthekeys]

5th Wheel Calculator

This product work extremely well in giving you your capability.