Wife fell in love with 5th wheel...I have an F150

[DwnSth]

Have been looking for a bit larger TT, something with a rear living or rear entertainment, also, desperately need an 80" bed!

Ruled out Outback TT's even though we really liked those, hitch weights push 900lbs dry F150 hitch maxes out at 1150.

Looking at TT's yesterday and we saw an Open Range light 5th wheel. Wife almost adamant about looking seriously at these. Even touting the better towing and less length behind truck! (we split driving) Open Range even allows goose neck so I can have a flip down ball in bed.

So we have truck in sig. Payload is 2090 so I know there isn't much leeway (Even though Ford accounts for 150lb driver and full tank). The Open Ranges we looked at were between 1100 and 1250 on the pin. 5th wheels are very new to us so unlike a TT I don't know all the ins and outs of pin weights, loads etc. Could write a book on TT weights and load though.

Probably not going to give up truck and go to something larger. It's extremely nice as a daily driver and tows like a dream. Is it within reason to tow a light 5th wheel with my truck?

[apitz395]

Jerem0621, If you are ever in Texas (New Braunfels) I would let you try mine out if I don't sell it. It's a GMC 2500HD towing a 34ft fifth wheel. Powerglide hitch with electric jacks... it really is nice to hook up, check my pin, jacks up and go. Tows like a dream.

[jerem0621]

DSteiner51 wrote:

soundslikefun wrote:


Actually it was 40% of 5th wheels and a higher number for TTs that I don't recall the exact number so I just threw out the 40%. I'd totally believe it and see it every time I pull into a CG. It's always 1/2 ton owners believing the commercials that their brand of truck is the biggest baddest.

Pure BS. Lots of dressed out 3/4 and 1 ton are overloaded. By the time they got all the accessories and options they usually don't have what the owners think they have. I've often asked why is it ok to overload a 3/4 or 1 ton then add airbags or helper springs but a big NO NO to do the same to a half ton? I've heard more ignorant answers from those so proud of their "superior" intelligence.

Dayle wrote:
And I would rather tow a fiver than a lighter TT any day of the week, no sway, no weight distribution or loading concerns (except loaded pin weight), more relaxing driving.

Exactly! It is much safer to tow a fifth slightly overloading a truck then towing a TT at ratings requiring a bunch of bandaids to make it "safe".

I wish I could go out and just pull a fifth wheel to compare the towing between a fiver and a TT. I have only experienced the TT and it was a pain IMHO to use all that equipment. But I felt it was needed to be as safe as I could. It got easier to use with the power tongue jack but that was really all.

The truck and trailer towed fine with the equipment "WD hitch and sway control" but the idea of just hitching up and taking off really appeals to me. Plus this perceived safety of the Fiver vs a TT. I'd like to experience how this feels myself.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[DSteiner51]

soundslikefun wrote:


Actually it was 40% of 5th wheels and a higher number for TTs that I don't recall the exact number so I just threw out the 40%. I'd totally believe it and see it every time I pull into a CG. It's always 1/2 ton owners believing the commercials that their brand of truck is the biggest baddest.

Pure BS. Lots of dressed out 3/4 and 1 ton are overloaded. By the time they got all the accessories and options they usually don't have what the owners think they have. I've often asked why is it ok to overload a 3/4 or 1 ton then add airbags or helper springs but a big NO NO to do the same to a half ton? I've heard more ignorant answers from those so proud of their "superior" intelligence.

Dayle wrote:
And I would rather tow a fiver than a lighter TT any day of the week, no sway, no weight distribution or loading concerns (except loaded pin weight), more relaxing driving.

Exactly! It is much safer to tow a fifth slightly overloading a truck then towing a TT at ratings requiring a bunch of bandaids to make it "safe".

[soundslikefun]

milo wrote:

soundslikefun wrote:
Saw a speaker at last weekends Minneapolis RV show mention something around 40% of towed RVs are overweight for their tow vehicle. If that is true I am frightened to be on the road with all these vehicles unable to stop.

Alrighty then...let me try and understand what you are saying.... in your statement you said "mention something" is that cuz your not sure of exactly what the speaker said. Could the speaker have been talking about 40% of the RV'ers being overweight and not the RV, hmmmm. Hard to believe that 40% of all RV's are over loaded. Surely RV'ers are not that stupid.. then again... maybe they are.

Oh and another thought DwnSth...whatever you do, never, never, never ever tow a 5er with a little tiny 1/2 ton. Nothing smaller than a HDV. SHHHH don't tell anybody, but I tow a 5er with itty bitty 150, but what do I know. :?

Actually it was 40% of 5th wheels and a higher number for TTs that I don't recall the exact number so I just threw out the 40%. I'd totally believe it and see it every time I pull into a CG. It's always 1/2 ton owners believing the commercials that their brand of truck is the biggest baddest.

[apitz395]

Just to throw it out there dwnSwth, I have a 2013 34ft. Fiver with an 02 GMC 2500hd with only 70,000 miles on it, superglide hitch all for 39k. It's an option for you and you could put less wear and tear on your daily driver. I am building a new house and want to sell.

[milo]

soundslikefun wrote:
Saw a speaker at last weekends Minneapolis RV show mention something around 40% of towed RVs are overweight for their tow vehicle. If that is true I am frightened to be on the road with all these vehicles unable to stop.

Alrighty then...let me try and understand what you are saying.... in your statement you said "mention something" is that cuz your not sure of exactly what the speaker said. Could the speaker have been talking about 40% of the RV'ers being overweight and not the RV, hmmmm. Hard to believe that 40% of all RV's are over loaded. Surely RV'ers are not that stupid.. then again... maybe they are.

Oh and another thought DwnSth...whatever you do, never, never, never ever tow a 5er with a little tiny 1/2 ton. Nothing smaller than a HDV. SHHHH don't tell anybody, but I tow a 5er with itty bitty 150, but what do I know. :?

[Dayle1]

soundslikefun wrote:
Saw a speaker at last weekends Minneapolis RV show mention something around 40% of towed RVs are overweight for their tow vehicle. If that is true I am frightened to be on the road with all these vehicles unable to stop.

Probably true, but that has nothing to do with stopping ability. All trailers have their own brakes fully capable of stopping the trailer weight. And if the brake controller is set up correctly, the trailer brakes are applied more aggressively to keep the setup from jack-knifing, so the trailer actually helps stop the tow vehicle. I just recently sold an 11 year old 3/4 ton diesel truck with 88k miles, mostly towing, still had original brake pads with good remaining pad thickness. But then the Jordan 20/20 brake controller did an excellent job of applying the trailer brakes, even better than today's IBC.

[Dayle1]

Lots of good info has been provided and you have to do the hard math to know what will work. But it is certainly possible. I used several 1500 series trucks (none as capable as today's) and towed 3 different fifth wheels for many years, miles and road conditions. And I would rather tow a fiver than a lighter TT any day of the week, no sway, no weight distribution or loading concerns (except loaded pin weight), more relaxing driving.

The single biggest problem is not exceeding rear GAWR which is almost always set by tire capacity. There are probably more 3/4 ton diesel pickups towing fivers than 1/2 ton gassers that are exceeding their GVWR and close to GAWR. But since they pull so well, owners may not really know their weight situation, especially if they aren't forum members. If your truck doesn't have LT tires, that would be an important change.

[rhagfo]

soundslikefun wrote:
Saw a speaker at last weekends Minneapolis RV show mention something around 40% of towed RVs are overweight for their tow vehicle. If that is true I am frightened to be on the road with all these vehicles unable to stop.

Well as one member of that 40% club, I have plenty of brake, and tow level on stock suspension.
I am sure that there are many out there that are within ratings, and improperly setup, that are far more dangerous!!

[2112]

DwnSth wrote:
...Looking at TT's yesterday and we saw an Open Range light 5th wheel...
So we have truck in sig. Payload is 2090 so I know there isn't much leeway (Even though Ford accounts for 150lb driver and full tank). The Open Ranges we looked at were between 1100 and 1250 on the pin...

Probably not going to give up truck and go to something larger. Is it within reason to tow a light 5th wheel with my truck?

Your truck is more capable than mine (I do not have the HD axle) and it tows/carries my FW in my sig with no problem. I guesstimated the max #'s and felt it would work prior to purchase.

We ruled out a Couger and Open Range because I wasn't as comfortable with the guesstimate's. I also ruled out the Open Range model we were considering because 1) cable slides, 2) HUGE basement. I wouldn't have much payload left to fill the basement so I saw that as wasted space. It was a rear bunk house model and we saw that as ideal storage. That would have lighted up the pin weight some as well but I couldn't rely on handling at that point without trying it.

That is the hard part. You can calculate, estimate, guess at a lot of it but you won't know the final outcome until the $$ is spent.

We are very pleased with our KZ

[jus2shy]

Sammie1 wrote:
My husband thinks from what he has read that we don't need a dually to pull a 40 ft 5th wheel. He says an f350 should do the job. We will want to be able to tow at least 18000 lbs. everyone has a different opinion, so who do we listen too? What happens if we don't get a dually. Keep in mind this is our first big truck and 5th wheel as we are new to this.

Your husband sounds like me 3 years ago. I figured "Hell, my F-150 is rated to tow 11,000 lbs, so it'll tow anything I'm interested in." Flash forward to 2 years later "Crap, all the RV's I like are under the tow weight, but I never considered payload in my rig. All these RV's have about 1,000 lbs of tongue weight and that's empty; I only have 1400 lbs to play with after weighing myself at the recycle yard scale... time to get a 3500 SRW and be done with this game." Hence I now own the truck below and I've deferred my RV purchasing plans another year or two.

[Buck50HD]

I can't say I'd highly recommend it because not everyone will watch how they load. The truck does handle load very well, right up to and even over the GVWR/RAWR. Also, a 5th handles much better... it's actually relaxing on the way to the campground.

My truck is nearly identical except an XLT, which accounts for the slight difference in payload. Also note that a 150lb driver is not included but a full tank is. Here are my scaled numbers with a full 36 gallon tank.

6030lb total, 3435F/2605R, ratings are 3850/4800
Payload 2170lb
Amount of weight that can be added to rear axle: 2195
-150 lb hitch and brackets = 2045
-38% of your weight(lets say you're 200), so -76 = 1969
-38% of you wife (I'll just assume 150 for an example), so -57 = 1912
and any gear you have, about 38% of stuff on the front seat goes to the rear axle and about 64% of stuff on the rear seat goes to the rear axle but we'll stick with nothing for now.

We also have to account for your heavier Lariat trim, which is all in the cab, and from your sticker appears to be 80 lb more than my XLT. About 50% of that is on the rear axle so subtract another 40 lb.

You have 1872 lb left for pin weight but note that this ignores your GVWR of 8200 and only looks at the rear axle rating, like many 3/4 and 1-ton SRW guys do. It also assumes nothing else in the truck. No added bed liner, bed cover, side steps, accessories other than factory installed. It also assumes 350 lbs of people.

Let's look at payload. You have 2090 lb
-150 hitch/brackets = 1940
-350 people = 1590

I'd bet a pop that your numbers are within 50 lb of these estimates if you don't have any other accessories on the truck and no extra junk in the cab.

Quick summary:
Pin wt calculated by rear axle rating: 1872
Pin wt by GVWR: 1590

Can you do it? Yes. It would actually be quite easy if you just look at rear axle rating. If you follow the GVWR, it's going to be tight.

[Beartoo]

For answers on "Open Range Trailers" the gang that have OP will help you out. For the Open Range Owners Forum Click Here .

[dballentine]

Here are the capacities that GM publishes for their Chevy/GMC 3500 series pickups. The numbers vary slightly depending on cab style, 2WD or 4WD, and bed length. The whole table is quite large; I'm going to show one specific comparison: Crew Cab, Diesel, 2WD, Long Bed.

Payload: 4327 SRW, 5548 DRW

Payload includes the pin weight, plus everything in the pickup: driver, passenger, fuel, hitch, "stuff" in the cab and bed. Following rhagfo's example, the pin weight is probably somewhere between 3600# (20%) and 4500# (25%). If "everything else" is 750#, the actual payload weight is 4350#, slightly over GM's listed capacity if the pin is 3600#, and quite a bit over if the pin is as much as 4500#.

=============

Gross Combined Weight Rating: 20500 SRW, 24500 DRW

GCWR is the total weight of the truck and trailer, together. GM Curb weight for the SRW version of our example truck is about 7300#, the DRW version is 7600#. With driver, passenger, etc. weighing in at 750#, we have a gross weight for the truck of 8050# (SRW) and 8350# (DRW).

The difference between GCWR and the truck's curb weight is the amount of weight the trailer can be, and not exceed the manufacturer's specifications.

Max Trailer Weight SRW = 20500 - 8050 = 12,450#

Max Trailer Weight DRW = 24500 - 8350 = 16,150#