Am I Getting Ready to Buy A Lemon?

[Howlan]

Hey Everyone, Newbie forum member here, getting ready to take delivery of my first RV Friday of this week and just joined to try and get info about the new family experience my family is getting ready to start. Well as I searched some I found an old thread that I think is the RV that I'm planning on buying, which is a used Hurricane 34Y from the Buffalo NY area (I'm in North Carolina and was going to fly up to get unit on Friday). See thread:

Thread about Lemon Hurricane 34Y in Buffalo NY

Being that the unit I'm looking at has 3600 miles I'm betting it is the same unit. The dealer (Colton RV in Buffalo area) told me there were no issues with the unit and it looked brand new. I was wondering why the mileage was so low and asked about that. Dealer said when I go there if I wasn't happy I could walk away from deal, so I put deposit down on unit to hold.

Reading the thread sure is making me get wet feet. Any suggestions or thoughts? I really don't need any headaches....

Thanks,

Howard

[C-Leigh_Racing]

bycrackey wrote:

C-Leigh Racing wrote:
Other than what Dennis just mentioned, let me see,,,Buffalo NY, snow, ice & SALT a good part of the year up there & then the ruff roads on top of that. Dont make any difference in which highways the owners use, that chassis has took a beating even at 3600 miles.

I have racing friends up in that area, his business is out of Buffalo, so would not be much for me to ask him if he could roll by that dealers lot when he had time to check it out.
Neil

true sort of but at 3600 miles I doubt this Rv has ever seen snow,ice and salt
Neil/ The "doubt word" dont look like much, but it is a big word & being from that part of the USA, if it has not seen salt it would be mighty lucky
show me where in the US u can drive where there are no rough roads at one point or another
Neil/ So true, I will have to agree with you on that. It would probably be easier to prove, where the moneys went that was suppose to be used on our highways, than to find smooth highways.
all this being said the dealership and the salesman without doubt should have declared the accident damge to you on this unit no matter how small or big

Neil/ Will agree with you on this as well.
Neil

[deejay41]

Run Forest Run !!!!!

[campguy3040]

Are you sure you can't find a motorhome closer to home????? Even the best RVs will need service from a dealer at some time. Try to buy closer to home and build a relationship there. Step back and start over. Hope you can get your deposit back. Good luck eitherway you go.

[bycrackey]

C-Leigh Racing wrote:
Other than what Dennis just mentioned, let me see,,,Buffalo NY, snow, ice & SALT a good part of the year up there & then the ruff roads on top of that. Dont make any difference in which highways the owners use, that chassis has took a beating even at 3600 miles.

I have racing friends up in that area, his business is out of Buffalo, so would not be much for me to ask him if he could roll by that dealers lot when he had time to check it out.
Neil

true sort of but at 3600 miles I doubt this Rv has ever seen snow,ice and salt
show me where in the US u can drive where there are no rough roads at one point or another
all this being said the dealership and the salesman without doubt should have declared the accident damge to you on this unit no matter how small or big

[Smitty77]

Hi Howlan - Another welcome to the forum.

I've read your first post, and it clearly says you've paid the Dealer a deposit to hold the coach.

Question:

Do you have anything in writing that says the deposit will be fully returned if your decide to walk on that specific coach?

If the answer is yes, great! Even better if this was via a Credit Card. Call the Credit Card and have them reverse the charge. If payment was via check or transfer. Then send a registered letter simply stating you have decided the coach due to the carfax showing and accident, and request a refund of your deposit. (Then wait and see if they do so...)

If the answer is no you have nothing in writing. Then via email, I would ask them to send you the confirmation that if you don't like the coach you can walk, and obtain your deposit refund. Tell them you are doing this before firming up your travel plans. (They most likely will not respond to this in a positive confirmation that you may get the full deposit refund if you walk. But if they feel you are still planning to come to the lot to check out the coach - they just might.)

Either way, with a dealer that has a known questionable reputation, before spending more funds to fly up - I'd walk now. Hope for the best on the refund, but cut your losses.

And when looking for the next rig, do as much research on the dealership as you do on the rig. Honest salesman and dealers do exists. But, you really need to confirm this before even approaching any dealer. Even then, always, always, always (let me suggest 'ALWAYS') get everything in writing before signing any paperwork or spending any funds. (GET THINGS IN WRITING. And, specific's count.)

Please do not feel that I, or anyone else is trying to 'preach' at you. I know that I sincerely smell a rat, and hate to see anyone taken advantage of. And, sometimes you just cut your losses and chalk it up to 'Burn as you learn.

Best of luck to you, and sure hope you walk without tossing more money in that direction - and, that you get your refund back too. And do keep looking - as this RV'ing thing is a blast, and worth the time and the PITA factor on getting into a rig.

Regards,
Smitty

[dougrainer]

soren wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
Depending on the state laws(the law where you buy, not where you live), IF you ask a Dealer (even a private seller) a specific question about the condition or circumstances of the vehicle and he LIES to you, he can be sued(very easily).Doug

Without sounding rude, I know that at least a few salespeople reading this thread had a quiet little chuckle reading this.

The larger point is that I would hate for anybody, particularly a newbee to the whole process, to get the idea that a salesperson will not, and cannot lie to you since it's "against the law". The bottom line is this. If you do business with a high volume, low reputation RV dealership, you should expect to be lied to, because there is a great likelihood that you will be. Not only is it common, but there is nothing you are going to do to stop it, other that use common sense, and find another place to do business.

There are two specific reasons that you will NEVER be protected by a law regarding deceptive verbal practices. First, it really is a "he said, she said" world out there. There isn't a lawyer in the world who is willing to waste a moment on case based on, "we though we were buying X, since our salesman said so, but we ended with less, he lied to us." The first thing the lawyer is going to say is, "Show me the proof. Did an independent third party hear the conversation? Show me the paper trail, and where you were clearly defrauded."
No evidence? Just your word against a large company with very deep pockets, no hesitation to dive right into litigation, and the ability to do it with their own staff attorney. Good luck with that. Doesn't matter if you are seeking help in filing a civil suit, or talking to a state A.Gs office, they can't protect you from something that they can't reasonable prove happened.

Second, when you do business with any large operation you will not be closing the deal before you sign a "no verbal promises" document. This clearly states that you were not promised anything that does not appear in the documents you are signing. You made no verbal agreements with any employee, and you agree that the contract your are signing is the only binding legal agreement involved in this transaction. Basically, you just signed a waiver to any "liar law" your state may have on the books.

unfortunately, the bottom line is that "liar laws" look nice, and they are real useful political tool. "look what I did to protect our great citizens, blah, blah, blah....." But assuming that they bring a level of integrity to this situation, or provide any level of protection, isn't too realistic.

I am talking about the Texas Deceptive trade practices Law which does have teeth. The reason you may be able to sue is simple, the purchaser finds out the condition/s of the vehicle after the fact and it is very easy to follow the paper trail. In Texas, the fact that the Seller had NO CLUE, does NOT absolve him of the resposibility. Most States do not have a strong Deceptive law. In Texas, it even works on garage sales. You sell a TV and claim it is in working condition---the buyer goes home and it does NOT work. You either give him his money back or when he takes you to small claims he will get treble damages. The point is, IF you are asking specific questions, either record it or have it in writing. Doug

[C-Leigh_Racing]

Other than what Dennis just mentioned, let me see,,,Buffalo NY, snow, ice & SALT a good part of the year up there & then the ruff roads on top of that. Dont make any difference in which highways the owners use, that chassis has took a beating even at 3600 miles.

I have racing friends up in that area, his business is out of Buffalo, so would not be much for me to ask him if he could roll by that dealers lot when he had time to check it out.
Neil

[soren]

dougrainer wrote:
Depending on the state laws(the law where you buy, not where you live), IF you ask a Dealer (even a private seller) a specific question about the condition or circumstances of the vehicle and he LIES to you, he can be sued(very easily).Doug

Without sounding rude, I know that at least a few salespeople reading this thread had a quiet little chuckle reading this.

The larger point is that I would hate for anybody, particularly a newbee to the whole process, to get the idea that a salesperson will not, and cannot lie to you since it's "against the law". The bottom line is this. If you do business with a high volume, low reputation RV dealership, you should expect to be lied to, because there is a great likelihood that you will be. Not only is it common, but there is nothing you are going to do to stop it, other that use common sense, and find another place to do business.

There are two specific reasons that you will NEVER be protected by a law regarding deceptive verbal practices. First, it really is a "he said, she said" world out there. There isn't a lawyer in the world who is willing to waste a moment on case based on, "we though we were buying X, since our salesman said so, but we ended with less, he lied to us." The first thing the lawyer is going to say is, "Show me the proof. Did an independent third party hear the conversation? Show me the paper trail, and where you were clearly defrauded."
No evidence? Just your word against a large company with very deep pockets, no hesitation to dive right into litigation, and the ability to do it with their own staff attorney. Good luck with that. Doesn't matter if you are seeking help in filing a civil suit, or talking to a state A.Gs office, they can't protect you from something that they can't reasonable prove happened.

Second, when you do business with any large operation you will not be closing the deal before you sign a "no verbal promises" document. This clearly states that you were not promised anything that does not appear in the documents you are signing. You made no verbal agreements with any employee, and you agree that the contract your are signing is the only binding legal agreement involved in this transaction. Basically, you just signed a waiver to any "liar law" your state may have on the books.

unfortunately, the bottom line is that "liar laws" look nice, and they are real useful political tool. "look what I did to protect our great citizens, blah, blah, blah....." But assuming that they bring a level of integrity to this situation, or provide any level of protection, isn't too realistic.

[soren]

wnytaxman wrote:

The reason I bring this up is that most of the issues mentioned in It was mentioned that the rig may have been totaled out in an accident. Here in NY we have a title law that requires any unit that has been totaled to have a salvage title which is noted right on the title. A quick look at the title itself would answer that question. If the sales people at Colton refuse to show you the title then you may have the answer to that question very quickly.
.

You're dreaming if you think that this "law" protects all innocent buyers from ending up with salvage vehicles. First, the insurer has to voluntarily declare the vehicle to be totaled. So, if it never enters the system as a total loss, it can, and does get repaired and sent back into play. Second, there is a whole illegal, yet active industry of washing titles. Send the vehicle through a series of interstate ownership changes, and magically the title is clean again. The concept of a branded title is certainly NOT something that is unique to NY, and much like relying on a Carfax, it is a limited tool, and cannot be seen as a guarantee that the vehicle isn't a salvaged wreck.

About five years ago, I was wrapping up the paperwork, while buying a nearly new SUV. I noticed some odd, yet very slight damage where all four doors appeared to have shifted forward, and chipped paint off of the forward jambs. After further investigation, it became obvious that the car was built of two wrecks, welded together. The car had been rear ended, totaled, and the rear half was replaced with a color matching clip from another vehicle. The Carfax and the NEW YORK STATE title were both clean. The dealer BTW, was a multiple franchise, multiple location chain with stores all over the southern tier. So much for "looking at the title, for the required salvage designation", eh?

[Executive45]

Howlan wrote:
The dealer (Colton RV in Buffalo area) told me there were no issues with the unit and it looked brand new. I was wondering why the mileage was so low and asked about that. Dealer said when I go there if I wasn't happy I could walk away from deal, so I put deposit down on unit to hold.

Howard, you've gotten some really good advice from many folks on here...I would encourage you to heed their advice. Two things jump out at me in reading your post. Specifically the paragraph quoted above.

1. You are dealing with a questionable dealership.
2. You asked a straight up question and got an off the wall answer.

Question: Why is the mileage so low?
Answer: When you get here, if you're not happy, you can walk away.
Real answer: Even though I know, I'm not going to tell you..and yes, you CAN WALK AWAY, but I'm keeping your deposit!!

Know EXACTLY what you're getting into, BEFORE you make the trip or at the very least, DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY MONEY!.....Dennis

[wny_pat1]

I would not even make the trip!!!

[phnguyk]

RWjSIM2003 wrote:
IMOP I would think twice just because the MH you are talking about is used and Model and brand has a history of many maintance issues. Might want to look for a different option. Old saying if it seems to good to be true it usually is.

My own personal impression I would never buy a RV of any type from CW.

"and Model and brand has a history of many maintance issues".

Based on what facts? There's nothing wrong with this model or brand especially not a "history" of maintenance issues. ?!?!?!?!?

[RWjSIM2003]

IMOP I would think twice just because the MH you are talking about is used and Model and brand has a history of many maintance issues. Might want to look for a different option. Old saying if it seems to good to be true it usually is.

My own personal impression I would never buy a RV of any type from CW.

[wnytaxman]

I also read through the original post and there is some background which may be helpful. Myers RV was being sold to Camping World during the time frame the purchaser is referring to. Camping World then opened a very large store and service facility in Hamburg, NY and moved the Myers business a few miles up the road. They subsequently shut down that location and tried to handle everything out of their Rochester store. Now they have reopened the Hamburg location.

The reason I bring this up is that most of the issues mentioned in the original post do sound more cosmetic then structural and the original purchaser may have gotten caught in the middle of major corporate moves.

It was mentioned that the rig may have been totaled out in an accident. Here in NY we have a title law that requires any unit that has been totaled to have a salvage title which is noted right on the title. A quick look at the title itself would answer that question. If the sales people at Colton refuse to show you the title then you may have the answer to that question very quickly.

I had mentioned in an earlier post that any representations as to fixes that will be done or were completed should not only be in writing but signed by the salesman and the sales manager and I would probably like to have the general manager sign it also.

[Rockrash]

I agree, run. I'm no expert but I've heard the best used deals are in FL and AK, because people sell their rides and either stay (FL) or get out of town as fast as possible (AK).